verylost

The reman'd unit was not designed for a high stall. Would you rather have a product that was propery designed for your application or would you prefer to have something that was designed for one thing to do something else?

Would you prefer a porsche or highly modded civic? I'd take the porsche because it was designed to perform and handle. The civic was meant to get groceries.

EDIT: I am not saying that the Lextreme TC isn't a good product. I am saying that if you have the money, get the PI TC.

soarer479

iTrader: (2)

i would say go with the lextreme i believe the 2800 is the perfect stall speed no matter what i love it for my car beacause im hitting full boost right off the line with that stall speed makes for perfect launches and also the product is perfect the fins are welded to the wall of the tc i know for a fact your transmission will go before this tc and if it ever does break davids warrentee covers it i honestly believe this is a better product for a better price

verylost

It is a better price, but not a better product.

ARISTO 161

iTrader: (3)

I actually have done some of the deliveries for Lextreme.
I've seen the workers rebuild the TC's, and they do a good job starting
from the bearings to the welding, they know what they are doing.
TC are the only thing they are specialized to do, so that is all you will find at the factory.
Concerning Lextreme himself, he has spent money purposely just to make his customers happy in one occasion that there was a wrong stall speed. He payed for all the future shipping, and it was evidently the guy who took the order at the factory.
He is also a personal friend of mine and very professional. He is someone i trust.
Just IMO for anyone who doesnt know him.

~Best Wishes

verylost

I have no doubt that Lextreme works hard and stands behind his product.
He probably makes a decent product but it is in no way the best product.

From a mechanical standpoint, a rebuilt torque converter will never be as strong as a purposely built/machined torque converter. This is a simple property of the metal itself and metal working. There is nothing Lextreme or any other tc rebuilder can do to break the laws of physics.

An analogy to this situation would be the same reason as why cutting springs is bad.

I have followed Lextreme's work for a long time now. I am very impressed with his work considering he has no mechanic or material engineering background. However, his knowledge is engineering is lacking in many areas and it would be hard for me to say or be convinced that his tc is a better engineered product.

macster

How did this turn out?

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

JP, that reads a bit harsh especially considering the fairly mild content of the quote.... let's tone this thread down a bit please.

I've had two PI torque converters (one I bought through you, thanks ) since 2000 and there is absolutely no rattling or funny sounds in mine or in the dozen or so cars I've been in with them. I have no personal experience with the Lextreme TC yet in any car. Maybe I'll get one for my LS .

I'd tend to agree with you that David knows more about Lexus than the folks at PI. I'd also tend to believe that the folks at PI know more about torque converters than he does. That is all they do.

I've asked PI about their product vs Lextreme's remanufactured one and they gave me the following brief reply:

Both products appear to be good choices and folks should make up their minds based on all the facts they can gather including price, length in market / experience, performance, warranty, etc.

JPI Racing

Dave,
I'm here to inform CL members and point them to the right direction. For someone that hasn't use the product and come here to voice their negative opinion. That is not acceptable. There is a limit to stock toque converter that you can modify, if you are looking around 2800-3500rmp then it shouldn't be a problem. We are currenty testing a restall converter on our shop GS300, it works just fine. PI is a good company but there are many options outhere. Hopefully this post will clear everything up and the consumers will make their own decision.
JP Importz

verylost

I have a biomedical engineering background with a concentration in mechanical engineering from a top 20 nationally ranked school. This basically means I have an mechanical engineering degree and in addition studied biology and chemistry. You?

Rebuilding a stock converter that was designed to do one thing is not a good idea. Do you have an engineering background? Have you studied material stresses and fluid dynamics? David may know his lexus, but his knowledge in basic physics and engineering is weak. Take a look at David's forums, he makes mistakes that a sophomore engineering student would never make. I don't want to bash David but he just doesn't have the proper understanding and knowledge about basic engineering.

The PI TC is a specifically designed product. PI designed there TC to withstand certain stresses which are much higher than what a stock torque converter is supposed to withstand.
The Lextreme may be a suitable tc for everyday moderate use, but it is in no way a better product.
I define better as structurally stronger.

In general, reworking metal is a bad idea. I will stand by my opinion that PI is a better product because it was designed to perform under certain stresses. A rebuilt torque converter is rebuilding something in "hopes" that it will last.

JPI Racing

I don't have a Mechanical Engineering degree but I was a Lexus Master and ASE Master, AEM EMS tuner, and fabricator. I've been working on Lexus for 9 years. We don't rework the metal. All the fins get to change out with stronger internals and bearings. Possible you can tell us how does the Torque converter work? David doesn't design the torque converter by no mean. He has a company that make them. If you can get PI to send pictures and some specs of their product. I would be happy to do the same with my restall converter. Let's compare datas. I've tested both unit and the result are the same! BTW, there are 9's cars outhere that run restall torque converter. People don't pray for their products to work. It does take time to R&D to make the product perfect.
JP Importz

verylost

It appears your product doesn't appear to be a common rebuilt torque converter like many of the other rebuilt torque converters out there. Letreme's converter is simply a stock TC with rewelded fins to increase the stall. None of the internals are replaced with stronger materials like you do.

My statement was that the PI TC is a better/stronger product than lextrme's. I have no opinion on your rebuilt torque converter because I have never seen it nor read about it. But I have carefully read Lextreme's and PI's website and it is my belief that the PI is a better built TC. One of the reasons I prefer PI is because their TC is CNC milled. This process is more exact than Lextreme's hand rewelded and built product. Another reason I don't like the Lextreme unit is because customer's recieve a unit and then send in their old TC. The customer has no idea if he is receiving a 200k mile TC or a 10k mile TC. There is also no way for Lextreme to fully know the durability of the old TC's unless he tests them until failure which is impossible if he wants to stay in business.

Let me say this again. The PI TC is a better prodcut (but more expensive) than the Lextreme unit. The Lextreme is probably suitbale for street use. I also have no opinion on your (JPI) TC. From what you have briefly described, it seems like a strong product, but what you have built doesn't really fall into the category of what people consider as a rebuilt torque converter. In all honesty, you should call your TC a new TC rather than rebuilt.

P.S The Tc works as a mechanical coupler based on the fluid's centripetal force. At it simplest explanation, it's bascially swinging a bucket full of water over your head without it spilling out.

Lextreme

I got multiple emails regarding this thread. I was encouraged to post by CL members, but declined for a while. However, I would like to make few things clear.

1. I have never stated the Lextreme TC was better then PI

2. Our internals are check for wear and tear. If specs are not up to oem measurements, we install new internals

3. I have never got any feedback from my buyers saying it broke or couldnt handle the hp.

4. For the HP most people runing, PI is way over price.

5. I think JPI can say it all. He was a PI distrubtor and he also modify TC for testing. I am sure JPI have his share of complaints about PI TC. Perhaps he will come out with his own line of TC. I also heard Toyomoto is coming out their line of TC similar to what we have.

6. All of my TC are rebuild by TC specialists.

7. No solid side by side testing between the two TC and I dont think this would be happen.

8. Our TC are 10x stronger than stock. Fins are tig welded to the the wall.

9. OUR GUARANTEE:
1. If you break it, send it back and get a replacement
2. If you break it again, send it back and we will refund you the full amount
3. TC has One year warranty from the day of delivery

I think people should have choices and factor out the cost, application and support. Now, people have few choices Stock TC, Lextreme TC, JPI, Toyomoto or PI TC. Due to the availability of TC, PI will have to lower their price in order to compete. For the past 10 years, PI was the only one with TC, now there are many new kid on the block.

verylost

It is impossible to test the true structural integrity of metal by length measurements alone. A stress test needs to be applied, in particular a torsional shear stress, to determine the true strength of the metal. However, this test can be done without totally destroying the test subject.

koreanpers

i was hoping this would help make up my mind...but now im not sure. i dont want to buy a rebuilt one that breaks...any more input?

YZFR1

Well,

I have to say something........ I may be somewhat ignorant here........ however, i believe some of the top companies also rebuild converters. I think i saw on SpeedVision one time, a large major manufacturer and rebuilder of TQ's was plugged.......I am not sure who it was...... maybe Pro Torque? They rebuilt them to your specs stall speeds etc and they just opened them up with a torch...........and the difference is the way the fins are bent or the way the fluid moves if i am not mistaken...... Bend them a certain way, the fluid flows accordingly...... But they did just that, cut the TQ open............ retool the fins/etc....... and whatever else they want to........ and then go from there........There is a science involved in rebuilding a TQ and it may or may not be as good or better than a new one that is just built to the specs that a rebuilt one can be fashioned in. Either way, the outcome would probably be the same......... As i don't believe a TQ is an item that would "go bad" persay versus maybe a spark plug. They are extremely durable. Honestly, me personally, i would trust a TQ from Toyota/Lexus that was rebuilt versus another one.... Look how strong our 1UZ's are....... I highly doubt the TQ is not extremely over engineered and beefed up more than enough for the job. I cannot for the life of me see why it is not better to take what was made for your car, modify it to fit your needs better and refurbish it to OEM standards...... and go from there....... I just cannot see how that is anything but good....... But that's just me..... Again, excuse the ignorance..........


Dan