to 1j or to 2j that is the question
02-21-05, 08:00 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by ki_soarer
i drove chino's car... got it sideways too!!! lol. with an auto. how did you like the shotgun seat matt?
02-24-05, 07:38 PM
#21
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Alright, so after these "claims" of the 1JZ having a better torque curve, I went through our dyno files and dug up a dyno chart of a 1JZ powered MK3 that we dyno'd a year or two ago. This is being put up against a 2JZ-GTE mkiv supra graph that we have also.
The conditions are as follows just to explain the charts:
1JZ in a MK3 supra with a T66 at 22 psi.
2JZ in a MKIV supra with a T67 at 19 psi.
As you can see, the only differences are that the 1JZ makes less power at the similar boost levels AND is just laggier. These were both done in the same gear (4th gear). The 1jz was even running a few more psi than the 2JZ but I'll give it to you 1JZ lovers. There were previous claims of the 1JZ having a "better torque curve" and guess what.... nope. Looks just as ****ty as the 2JZ's curve. Falls just as hard. I don't know where you would get that it has a better torque curve, but maybe by chance you just saw a chart that was boost creeping keeping the tq curve flat and looking like a VTEC honda's.
Again, this isn't a post to say "1JZ's suck" but just to prove that 1JZ's do NOT have anything special over the 2JZ's other than maybe 500 rpms of revs (stock) which is nothing to praise it for because it's also 500 rpms laggier. They both have similar powerbands BUT the 1JZ just makes less power due to displacement. Don't get me wrong, it's still a good motor, but I wouldn't throw a 2JZ out for a 1JZ any day.
Thank you, and if you still want to say that the 1JZ has a better torque curve, I will pull up more dyno sheets of the 1JZ against other 2JZ's but this was the closest scenario I could that was pretty much almost a direct comparison.
Also, I don't know why the chart is showing up so small. But I'll just tell you that the blue lines are the 1JZ and the 2JZ lines are red.
Another thing, I guess if you're doing the 1JZ swap because it is a "cheaper" method of aquiring a turbocharged vehicle, turboing the 2jzGE in your car is a better option in my honest opinion. If you weigh out all the factors, the 2JZ still comes out on top. You have a 2JZ already, use it. Just my .02 again. If you really feel the need to get a 1JZ, go for it.
The conditions are as follows just to explain the charts:
1JZ in a MK3 supra with a T66 at 22 psi.
2JZ in a MKIV supra with a T67 at 19 psi.
As you can see, the only differences are that the 1JZ makes less power at the similar boost levels AND is just laggier. These were both done in the same gear (4th gear). The 1jz was even running a few more psi than the 2JZ but I'll give it to you 1JZ lovers. There were previous claims of the 1JZ having a "better torque curve" and guess what.... nope. Looks just as ****ty as the 2JZ's curve. Falls just as hard. I don't know where you would get that it has a better torque curve, but maybe by chance you just saw a chart that was boost creeping keeping the tq curve flat and looking like a VTEC honda's.
Again, this isn't a post to say "1JZ's suck" but just to prove that 1JZ's do NOT have anything special over the 2JZ's other than maybe 500 rpms of revs (stock) which is nothing to praise it for because it's also 500 rpms laggier. They both have similar powerbands BUT the 1JZ just makes less power due to displacement. Don't get me wrong, it's still a good motor, but I wouldn't throw a 2JZ out for a 1JZ any day.
Thank you, and if you still want to say that the 1JZ has a better torque curve, I will pull up more dyno sheets of the 1JZ against other 2JZ's but this was the closest scenario I could that was pretty much almost a direct comparison.
Also, I don't know why the chart is showing up so small. But I'll just tell you that the blue lines are the 1JZ and the 2JZ lines are red.
Another thing, I guess if you're doing the 1JZ swap because it is a "cheaper" method of aquiring a turbocharged vehicle, turboing the 2jzGE in your car is a better option in my honest opinion. If you weigh out all the factors, the 2JZ still comes out on top. You have a 2JZ already, use it. Just my .02 again. If you really feel the need to get a 1JZ, go for it.
Last edited by CP_Ree; 02-24-05 at 07:53 PM.
02-25-05, 11:42 AM
#23
Lexus Champion
On my dyno I had right about 250ft lbs. at 3k and it stayed with in 15 hp more or less of that throughout the whole pull.. Thats my proof. I can take a pic of the dyno for you if you want. Thats STOCK.... no single turbo no nada. I've had a stock tt owner ride in my car and I rode in his car. He told me himself my car pulls harder than his. Im talking about stock for stock no mods b/c theres no way to compare 2 different engines when they've been modifed. Too many variables
02-28-05, 11:42 PM
#24
Originally Posted by guessd
As far as the torque curve, I would assume what turbo/turbos you are running and boost levels would affect that. Laggy turbos will make less torque. Bigger displacement will always make more tq.
On another note, why would you get a 1JZ anyways. I don't get it. It's like the 240sx guys getting SR20DET's. Okay.......... Let's downsize on the current displacement we have.
Sure the turbo/s are already there, but now you have an engine with less potential than the one you had before.
I'd either turbo the 3.0 GE, or get the GTE if you're gonna do anything with turboing your car. 3.0L will be better than 2.5L in the long run.
Just my .02
On another note, why would you get a 1JZ anyways. I don't get it. It's like the 240sx guys getting SR20DET's. Okay.......... Let's downsize on the current displacement we have.
Sure the turbo/s are already there, but now you have an engine with less potential than the one you had before.I'd either turbo the 3.0 GE, or get the GTE if you're gonna do anything with turboing your car. 3.0L will be better than 2.5L in the long run.
Just my .02
Sorry bro had to jump in. i had a 240sx with a sr20det. yes i went down .4L. At that time the sr20det was an easy swap tons of parts that were direct bolt on(Apexi FC, TT, Boost Controller etc). It's only after the greddy kit came out that a lot of people boost the stock 2.4L. I think both engines have potential. It was just easier to swap and boost sr20. As far as the 1JZ or 2JZ I dont really care. Just my .03.
07-23-12, 12:48 AM
#25
Everyone that argues in favor of 2JZGTE, seems to sound like they're assuming everybody's goal is 1300hp sometime in the future ...
What if Im happy making 600hp only, or not even big power, but simply getting the best out of what I have, by other means, such as a very well thought-out weight reduction, and I just want smooth acceleration to top it off, which I keep hearing is a feature of the 1JZ engine?
I mean, smoothness (IMHO) does seem to compliment a Lexus.
That raw, mechanical feel, may be cool in say, a GT-R, but I don't think I want my Lexus feeling like a track car.
I just want a machine that's competent, while retaining the feel of a luxury sports car, in order to enhance my driving experience, and impress the ladies ... I mean, the LF-A is a different kind of fast than the GT-R (if you've ever driven either), but its still fast, and it's still an outstanding machine by any criteria, even though it's not as aggressive.
From what I hear, I can get all of that from the 1JZ; also Im reading alot about a smoother-flowing head, which has to count for something. In sum, the 1JZ can't be that bad ... Does anyone have (or does anyone know) any 1JZ's with crazy power, say e.g. 800-1000hp? Who has the most horsepower out of a 1JZ here? Im curious now.
How difficult was it to achieve?
What if Im happy making 600hp only, or not even big power, but simply getting the best out of what I have, by other means, such as a very well thought-out weight reduction, and I just want smooth acceleration to top it off, which I keep hearing is a feature of the 1JZ engine?
I mean, smoothness (IMHO) does seem to compliment a Lexus.
That raw, mechanical feel, may be cool in say, a GT-R, but I don't think I want my Lexus feeling like a track car.
I just want a machine that's competent, while retaining the feel of a luxury sports car, in order to enhance my driving experience, and impress the ladies ... I mean, the LF-A is a different kind of fast than the GT-R (if you've ever driven either), but its still fast, and it's still an outstanding machine by any criteria, even though it's not as aggressive.
From what I hear, I can get all of that from the 1JZ; also Im reading alot about a smoother-flowing head, which has to count for something. In sum, the 1JZ can't be that bad ... Does anyone have (or does anyone know) any 1JZ's with crazy power, say e.g. 800-1000hp? Who has the most horsepower out of a 1JZ here? Im curious now.
How difficult was it to achieve?
Last edited by SEIDO; 07-23-12 at 01:03 AM.
07-23-12, 06:13 AM
#26
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Everyone that argues in favor of 2JZGTE, seems to sound like they're assuming everybody's goal is 1300hp sometime in the future ...
What if Im happy making 600hp only, or not even big power, but simply getting the best out of what I have, by other means, such as a very well thought-out weight reduction, and I just want smooth acceleration to top it off, which I keep hearing is a feature of the 1JZ engine?
I mean, smoothness (IMHO) does seem to compliment a Lexus.
That raw, mechanical feel, may be cool in say, a GT-R, but I don't think I want my Lexus feeling like a track car.
I just want a machine that's competent, while retaining the feel of a luxury sports car, in order to enhance my driving experience, and impress the ladies ... I mean, the LF-A is a different kind of fast than the GT-R (if you've ever driven either), but its still fast, and it's still an outstanding machine by any criteria, even though it's not as aggressive.
From what I hear, I can get all of that from the 1JZ; also Im reading alot about a smoother-flowing head, which has to count for something. In sum, the 1JZ can't be that bad ... Does anyone have (or does anyone know) any 1JZ's with crazy power, say e.g. 800-1000hp? Who has the most horsepower out of a 1JZ here? Im curious now.
How difficult was it to achieve?
What if Im happy making 600hp only, or not even big power, but simply getting the best out of what I have, by other means, such as a very well thought-out weight reduction, and I just want smooth acceleration to top it off, which I keep hearing is a feature of the 1JZ engine?
I mean, smoothness (IMHO) does seem to compliment a Lexus.
That raw, mechanical feel, may be cool in say, a GT-R, but I don't think I want my Lexus feeling like a track car.
I just want a machine that's competent, while retaining the feel of a luxury sports car, in order to enhance my driving experience, and impress the ladies ... I mean, the LF-A is a different kind of fast than the GT-R (if you've ever driven either), but its still fast, and it's still an outstanding machine by any criteria, even though it's not as aggressive.
From what I hear, I can get all of that from the 1JZ; also Im reading alot about a smoother-flowing head, which has to count for something. In sum, the 1JZ can't be that bad ... Does anyone have (or does anyone know) any 1JZ's with crazy power, say e.g. 800-1000hp? Who has the most horsepower out of a 1JZ here? Im curious now.
How difficult was it to achieve?
These 2 video's are both stock 1jz bottoms and I built both of them for different owners they are both on Megasquirt standalones and installed and tuned by Jordan AKA. Shadome on this forum enjoy
07-25-12, 01:35 AM
#28
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I think at this point both cars have maybe 50-75hp in them but the plenum is the primary hold back, and it maybe be time to start considering at the very least some upgraded rod bolts.
But to answer the? It was not all that difficult some very logical pre planning, and making sure all the necessary components where in place.
But to answer the? It was not all that difficult some very logical pre planning, and making sure all the necessary components where in place.
01-19-13, 03:11 PM
#29
Pole Position
I think at this point both cars have maybe 50-75hp in them but the plenum is the primary hold back, and it maybe be time to start considering at the very least some upgraded rod bolts.
But to answer the? It was not all that difficult some very logical pre planning, and making sure all the necessary components where in place.
But to answer the? It was not all that difficult some very logical pre planning, and making sure all the necessary components where in place.
01-19-13, 07:39 PM
#30
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The ACT car needs a clutch about every yr, to date I've changed 3 of them.
At these levels I would highly recommend at minimum a twin disc for some life expectancy of the clutch and the thrust bearings in the motor.
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