turbo talk................
06-29-05, 11:46 AM
#31
Originally Posted by qtb33
FYI pressure dosn't work like this. You cannot run a system with one turbo at 8psi and another at 10psi and claim you have 18psi. In fact if you do this, you'll only end up with 8psi and one dead turbo that was KIA fron huge amounts of compressor surge.
If you run twins or more than one turbo heres what you'll generally see. (I'm just making number up here, but you should get the idea)
Turbo 1 running (lets say) 8psi at 20 lbm/min
Turbo 2 running the same 8 psi and the same 20 lbm/min
Final results will be 8 psi and 40lbm/min.
Now if you run them in series or parallel is where you are going to see differences in pressures in turbos but once full boost is attained I'll bet good money they run the same pressures.
If you run twins or more than one turbo heres what you'll generally see. (I'm just making number up here, but you should get the idea)
Turbo 1 running (lets say) 8psi at 20 lbm/min
Turbo 2 running the same 8 psi and the same 20 lbm/min
Final results will be 8 psi and 40lbm/min.
Now if you run them in series or parallel is where you are going to see differences in pressures in turbos but once full boost is attained I'll bet good money they run the same pressures.
06-29-05, 11:49 AM
#32
Originally Posted by PHLSingle
Basically you guys are talking about compound turbo charging, for the most part. I did see some other posts about sequential...and did I see someone mention 3 turbos?!
Diesel guys have been doing this for years:
http://www.piersdiesel.com/DodgeTwins.htm
And search on supraforums...there is a thread PAGES long on this...
Diesel guys have been doing this for years:
http://www.piersdiesel.com/DodgeTwins.htm
And search on supraforums...there is a thread PAGES long on this...
06-29-05, 11:59 AM
#34
Originally Posted by Dramon
The benefit that a twin setup has over a big single is you can make the same amount of hp at lower boost.
The only time this would be true is if there was nobody made a single turbo big enough to flow the same as the two twins. This however is not the case for any of our applications.
06-29-05, 12:02 PM
#35
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It's true.... Two twins will flow similar air at lower boost than a bigger single.\
Take two T04E's and run them in a twin setup and you can hit 400s without going over 10 psi. Versus having to run 17 with a gt35/40 to get the same results.
And I thought we were talking about twin turbo setupts in general.
Take two T04E's and run them in a twin setup and you can hit 400s without going over 10 psi. Versus having to run 17 with a gt35/40 to get the same results.
And I thought we were talking about twin turbo setupts in general.
Last edited by Dramon; 06-29-05 at 12:11 PM.
06-29-05, 12:11 PM
#36
Pole Position
Originally Posted by Dramon
It's true.... Two twins will flow similar air at lower boost than a bigger single.
And I thought we were talking about twin turbo setupts in general.
And I thought we were talking about twin turbo setupts in general.
By your logic, a pair of T25's will flow more pounds per minute at 20psi than a T88 at the same pressure.
Well guess what. They don't. It's much less air and it's much hotter air coming thru those T25's.
06-29-05, 12:13 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by CleanSC
This is completely false. This is like saying a Honda is faster than a Toyota. You aren't quantifying either one.
By your logic, a pair of T25's will flow more pounds per minute at 20psi than a T88 at the same pressure.
Well guess what. They don't. It's much less air and it's much hotter air coming thru those T25's.
By your logic, a pair of T25's will flow more pounds per minute at 20psi than a T88 at the same pressure.
Well guess what. They don't. It's much less air and it's much hotter air coming thru those T25's.
A t25 ran at 20psi will flow a ****load hotter air and much less than a 60-1 at 12.
Thats why the question "how much psi" are you running really doesnt really mean **** unless you know their turbo setup.
06-29-05, 12:22 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Dramon
How did t25's even get into this conversation.
Originally Posted by Dramon
It has nothing to do with how much pressure.
Originally Posted by Dramon
Two twins will flow similar air at lower boost than a bigger single.\
Originally Posted by Dramon
A t25 ran at 20psi will flow a ****load hotter air and much less than a 60-1 at 12.
Originally Posted by Dramon
Thats why the question "how much psi" are you running really doesnt really mean **** unless you know their turbo setup.
Glad you agree it's not true now.
06-29-05, 12:24 PM
#39
Originally Posted by Dramon
It's true.... Two twins will flow similar air at lower boost than a bigger single.\
Take two T04E's and run them in a twin setup and you can hit 400s without going over 10 psi. Versus having to run 17 with a gt35/40 to get the same results.
And I thought we were talking about twin turbo setupts in general.
Take two T04E's and run them in a twin setup and you can hit 400s without going over 10 psi. Versus having to run 17 with a gt35/40 to get the same results.
And I thought we were talking about twin turbo setupts in general.
06-29-05, 12:32 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by CleanSC
You mentioned two turbos was better than one so I used T25's and a T88 as the example to illustrate the faulty logic in that statement.
You just said it did by saying:
That was exactly my point, yes. So now you're saying one turbo is better than two?
Agreed. But you are contradicting yourself. Two posts up you said Two is better than one at any given PSI.
Glad you agree it's not true now.
You just said it did by saying:
That was exactly my point, yes. So now you're saying one turbo is better than two?
Agreed. But you are contradicting yourself. Two posts up you said Two is better than one at any given PSI.
Glad you agree it's not true now.
So by your logic me saying that the benefit of a supercharger over a turbo is no lag, I would be saying that a supercharger is better than a turbo?
1) When I say flow I meant in terms of how cfm it flows, not boost pressure.
2) I edited my post to fix what I said earlier right before you made your post.
3) I NEVER said that twins will make mroe hp. I said you can hit the similar numbers at lower boost. And thats true. I know its a blanket statement. And yes its right.
4) I never said that twins were better than a big single anywhere. Twins are more complicated of a setup to run and you run into more space constraints than just slapping a huge turbo in.
5) i never said anyhting about spool times on a twin setup versus a single. You're pulling this by your logic crap out of your own ***. I NEVER said any of this. I just added the only real difference of a twin setup over a single is that you can flow the same air at lower boost. I never said anything about spool and I specifically said same amount of air and hit same hp numbers at lower boost. It was a generic blanket statement and I dont see why youre jumping all over me, jump over the kids talking about what diesel's do if youre going to jump on anyone.
Last edited by Dramon; 06-29-05 at 12:39 PM.
06-29-05, 12:50 PM
#41
dramon, im not jumping on your case but, maybe you shouldnt generalize so much because people who dont know crap might think that if they have twin t25s they can produce the same amount of power as if they had a t88
say something more like slightly smaller twins can produce the same power that a larger single does at lower boost levels, then people wont think you mean that any tt set-up can produce the same amount of power as any large single set-up at lower boost levels
say something more like slightly smaller twins can produce the same power that a larger single does at lower boost levels, then people wont think you mean that any tt set-up can produce the same amount of power as any large single set-up at lower boost levels
06-29-05, 12:52 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by FortuneSC
dramon maybe you shouldnt generalize so much because people who dont know crap might think that if they have twin t25s they can produce the same amount of power as if they had a t88
say something more like slightly smaller twins can produce the same power that a larger single does at lower boost levels, then people wont think you mean that any tt set-up can produce the same amount of power as any large single set-up at lower boost levels
say something more like slightly smaller twins can produce the same power that a larger single does at lower boost levels, then people wont think you mean that any tt set-up can produce the same amount of power as any large single set-up at lower boost levels
And seriously, you guys know you were trolling.
06-29-05, 01:00 PM
#43
sure most everybody knows that but there are some idiots out there... everyone knows that
i agree that some of you turbo veterans out there probably shouldnt have jumped on his case so hard, but rather have pointed out his generalization as being a bit to extreme, as i did
if people come on here and start talking about turbos that dont know crap and they get made fun of, or called idiots then how are they ever going to learn about it, and why would they if there just going to be made to feel dumb, i dont know much about the details of turbochargers but im trying to learn, i dont want to be another person who just throws money at there car and has a shop do all the tuning and installation so im trying to learn how to do it myself, and ive come pretty far thanks to these forums
i agree that some of you turbo veterans out there probably shouldnt have jumped on his case so hard, but rather have pointed out his generalization as being a bit to extreme, as i did
if people come on here and start talking about turbos that dont know crap and they get made fun of, or called idiots then how are they ever going to learn about it, and why would they if there just going to be made to feel dumb, i dont know much about the details of turbochargers but im trying to learn, i dont want to be another person who just throws money at there car and has a shop do all the tuning and installation so im trying to learn how to do it myself, and ive come pretty far thanks to these forums
Last edited by FortuneLS; 06-29-05 at 01:04 PM.
06-29-05, 01:12 PM
#44
Originally Posted by Dramon
...3) I NEVER said that twins will make mroe hp. I said you can hit the similar numbers at lower boost. And thats true. I know its a blanket statement. And yes its right............................................difference of a twin setup over a single is that you can flow the same air at lower boost.
06-29-05, 01:16 PM
#45
Originally Posted by FortuneSC
...if people come on here and start talking about turbos that dont know crap and they get made fun of, or called idiots then how are they ever going to learn about it, and why would they if there just going to be made to feel dumb, i dont know much about the details of turbochargers but im trying to learn, i dont want to be another person who just throws money at there car and has a shop do all the tuning and installation so im trying to learn how to do it myself, and ive come pretty far thanks to these forums