Help with getting a turbo
09-07-01, 06:19 AM
#91
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I know you guys don't like F-Max....but maybe you can help me answer some questions. I've already ordered it, so there's no turning back for me....I guess I'll see in the future if it was a bad idea to go the cheaper way.
If y'all can answer these questions un-biased towards F-Max it'd help...
I'll be installing the F-Max as bought, plus these mods:
Head is ported/polished
3" exhaust all the way (except the factory cat)
APEX'i S-AFC
Walbro 250 fuel pump
HKS Super Sequential BOV
What would y'all say the HP should be? F-Max says about 320, plus maybe another 20 because I'm going with the HKS BOV that's open-air. So 340. I know the more open exhaust should help alot, as should the polishing.
Also, what PSI do you think i'll be able to raise it to safely, and still run pump gas? (remember I'm at 8.5:1)
I've got a 125hp shot of nitrous....think this new fuel pump will handle all this?
What device would you reccomend for controlling boost? APEX'i's any good? It'd match my S-AFC then
And lastly, with a factory clutch with 60k on it, how many minutes do you think it'll last with this setup? LOL
Thanks in advance!
SR
If y'all can answer these questions un-biased towards F-Max it'd help...
I'll be installing the F-Max as bought, plus these mods:
Head is ported/polished
3" exhaust all the way (except the factory cat)
APEX'i S-AFC
Walbro 250 fuel pump
HKS Super Sequential BOV
What would y'all say the HP should be? F-Max says about 320, plus maybe another 20 because I'm going with the HKS BOV that's open-air. So 340. I know the more open exhaust should help alot, as should the polishing.
Also, what PSI do you think i'll be able to raise it to safely, and still run pump gas? (remember I'm at 8.5:1)
I've got a 125hp shot of nitrous....think this new fuel pump will handle all this?
What device would you reccomend for controlling boost? APEX'i's any good? It'd match my S-AFC then
And lastly, with a factory clutch with 60k on it, how many minutes do you think it'll last with this setup? LOL
Thanks in advance!
SR
09-07-01, 06:56 AM
#92
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you get what ya pay for...i have no idea what hp you will make...the port and polishing is minimal hp gain due to large ports on the head already and the fact your forcing air into it.....and with a 125 shot you will pop the motor soon enough........but you seem to have your own ideas about what your gonna do...what happened to the supercharger?....sorry to sound negitive...but you have spent good cash on wheels....body kit.....interior...why skimp on the turbo..the most important thing?.....Jeff
09-07-01, 07:55 AM
#93
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Why are you saying I'm going to pop the motor now? You're running 440hp. I'll have 340+125 (which I can change as low as 45 if need be for NOS).
Supercharger was a PITA. I got two quotes on the brackets, pipes, etc, and both put me within $200 of buying a pre-made F-Max kit. Know anyone that needs a brand new ProCharger PSC-1?
I know F-Max has always been good on Preludes, and I have yet to find someone that has a F-Max on their Supra that HAS had problems. I don't really see it as skimping when plenty of people have these kits with no problems. Do you know of anyone that I could talk to about the kit, that has had a bad experience?
Plus Toyomoto just charges too much for their kit with a FMIC....
SR
Supercharger was a PITA. I got two quotes on the brackets, pipes, etc, and both put me within $200 of buying a pre-made F-Max kit. Know anyone that needs a brand new ProCharger PSC-1?
I know F-Max has always been good on Preludes, and I have yet to find someone that has a F-Max on their Supra that HAS had problems. I don't really see it as skimping when plenty of people have these kits with no problems. Do you know of anyone that I could talk to about the kit, that has had a bad experience?
Plus Toyomoto just charges too much for their kit with a FMIC....
SR
09-07-01, 08:32 AM
#94
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we tried to tell you about the charger....
as for the f-max...you dont own a prelude.....you own a lexus.....the nitrous shot is too big....i reccommend a 75 shot..you need to retard timing and stuff for nos...i reccommend the 75 shot......yes i do know of 3people in miami that swapped out piping and manifolds to toyomoto stuff.....also i heard fuel lines and fittings werent so hot..i dont know there numbers or emails...just met tham at toyomoto......i dont mean to bash you but i have spent alot of time working on these cars and know what works and lasts on the cars....you do what you like......
also who with a supra do you know that has this kit....
im assuming it was an n/a supra.....do they still have the entire kit from f-max on there car?.....how long have they had it?......no cracking manifolds?..leaking manifolds?......Jeff
as for the f-max...you dont own a prelude.....you own a lexus.....the nitrous shot is too big....i reccommend a 75 shot..you need to retard timing and stuff for nos...i reccommend the 75 shot......yes i do know of 3people in miami that swapped out piping and manifolds to toyomoto stuff.....also i heard fuel lines and fittings werent so hot..i dont know there numbers or emails...just met tham at toyomoto......i dont mean to bash you but i have spent alot of time working on these cars and know what works and lasts on the cars....you do what you like......
also who with a supra do you know that has this kit....
im assuming it was an n/a supra.....do they still have the entire kit from f-max on there car?.....how long have they had it?......no cracking manifolds?..leaking manifolds?......Jeff
09-07-01, 08:42 AM
#95
actually manifolds crack anyway from stress; but they aren't supposed to leak...
the Fmax kit is the same exact kit as the Toyomoto kit except it has a high-carbon cast manifold, a FMIC standard, and uses a different addition injector controller
and I agree... Toyomoto's kit with a FMIC is over $7000
thats a ripoff dude; i don't care how good their manifold is. I don't have that kind of money to spend. I plan on doing the whole upgrade myself
The fmax kit makes 320hp at the 6 or 7psi that runs off the wastegate; you can run the boost up just like the toyomoto kit (its the same thing) and run it to 10-12psi with the additionals and be making around 380rwhp or so with a full exhaust...
i wouldn't put a NOS setup on it until you get bigger injectors
its kind of pointless... get a VPC and get 440s as the primaries and run some 550s as secondaries... then run the boost up to around 18psi on pumpgas and still have room to put a NOS shot on...
the Fmax kit is the same exact kit as the Toyomoto kit except it has a high-carbon cast manifold, a FMIC standard, and uses a different addition injector controller
and I agree... Toyomoto's kit with a FMIC is over $7000
thats a ripoff dude; i don't care how good their manifold is. I don't have that kind of money to spend. I plan on doing the whole upgrade myself
The fmax kit makes 320hp at the 6 or 7psi that runs off the wastegate; you can run the boost up just like the toyomoto kit (its the same thing) and run it to 10-12psi with the additionals and be making around 380rwhp or so with a full exhaust...
i wouldn't put a NOS setup on it until you get bigger injectors
its kind of pointless... get a VPC and get 440s as the primaries and run some 550s as secondaries... then run the boost up to around 18psi on pumpgas and still have room to put a NOS shot on...
09-07-01, 10:01 AM
#96
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you do what ever you like...the manifold leaks where it bolts to the head....the heat warps the manifold and it leaks from where it bolts to the head......its not just the manifold..its the quality of all fittings....hoses...ect...ect....do what ya like but i feel the honda element comming into our lexus community...sorrry if i offend but when you dont do things right the 1st time you pay more later......i learned this when i had a honda/acura....Jeff
09-07-01, 11:33 AM
#97
well Wiz, let us know
It will be nice to get feed back once this is installed and running. Can you post pics of the kit, packaging etc? How much for the SC? 50cents on the dollar ok?
09-07-01, 02:45 PM
#98
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
So the way an engine functions between the prelude and the sc is so different that I can't use F-Max for one but I can the other? Well...I could buy the F-Max kit AND the manifold from Toyomoto, and STILL save $$ over the Toyomoto kit. If there are any parts that look low quality in the kit, I'm not going to put them on. I can get new fuel fittings etc. if needed.
So if my manifold does in fact crack over time, I'll get the Toyomoto one and save $$ still.
Well on the NOS, 75 is good for me....once I've got 340hp, I really won't even want the extra 75.....I'll just use it in case I see a viper..lol
I've had my timing retarded 4deg for the 125shot. I'll likely leave it there when I drop back to 75. Plus I'm looking at the APEX'i ITC...will that work on the SC? I haven't gotten a response from them yet.
One guy I actually work with (or in a couple weeks, worked with), he has a 94 N/A supra with the kit. He's had it over a year. He got it after hearing good things from another person with a NA supra that has one. He got his off eBay, so it was previously used and still has no problems.
Honda element? O...k.....
Now if I DO have any problems with the kit, I'll tell you, and then you can say "Told ya so" all you want. And I will buy the required parts from Toyomoto. But until I have problems with it...I'll use it and save some $$.
Anyways back to the first question, I KNOW that y'all don't like the F-Max kit. I just wanted to know the answers to those few questions. Most people here are willing to help out however they can, even if it is a product they don't like. This place is here to help out each other!
And yes thanks for the info on the NOS shot...I was thinking 125 might be a little much, but the guy at Zex said as long as my air/fuel gauge says I'm good, that I can run anything I want.....just like having a turbo, but only when I hit the switch. I'll throw the 75 jets back in it...
SR
So if my manifold does in fact crack over time, I'll get the Toyomoto one and save $$ still.
Well on the NOS, 75 is good for me....once I've got 340hp, I really won't even want the extra 75.....I'll just use it in case I see a viper..lol
I've had my timing retarded 4deg for the 125shot. I'll likely leave it there when I drop back to 75. Plus I'm looking at the APEX'i ITC...will that work on the SC? I haven't gotten a response from them yet.
One guy I actually work with (or in a couple weeks, worked with), he has a 94 N/A supra with the kit. He's had it over a year. He got it after hearing good things from another person with a NA supra that has one. He got his off eBay, so it was previously used and still has no problems.
Honda element? O...k.....
Now if I DO have any problems with the kit, I'll tell you, and then you can say "Told ya so" all you want. And I will buy the required parts from Toyomoto. But until I have problems with it...I'll use it and save some $$.
Anyways back to the first question, I KNOW that y'all don't like the F-Max kit. I just wanted to know the answers to those few questions. Most people here are willing to help out however they can, even if it is a product they don't like. This place is here to help out each other!
And yes thanks for the info on the NOS shot...I was thinking 125 might be a little much, but the guy at Zex said as long as my air/fuel gauge says I'm good, that I can run anything I want.....just like having a turbo, but only when I hit the switch.
I'll throw the 75 jets back in it...SR
09-08-01, 01:24 PM
#100
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I will for SURE be doing that... I love to take pics with the digital camera. I just gotta figure out WHERE I'll be doing this install at.... We'll be outta the house by then, and likely living at a corporate apartment or vacation condo in Fl. Hmmm.....
I could always have it shipped up to my dads house in VA and do it there. Yuck....I don't wanna go farther north this winter at all!!
SR
I could always have it shipped up to my dads house in VA and do it there. Yuck....I don't wanna go farther north this winter at all!!
SR
09-08-01, 05:14 PM
#101
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im if i have come across wrong...i am meaning to help...thats why im trying to stear you clear of bad products..the same way you had problems with a strut bar and let everyone know about it..ya know?.....im happy to help out where ever i can....just want ya to do things right.......i dont wanna have to say i told you so....i want you happy..Jeff
09-08-01, 05:50 PM
#102
Lexus Test Driver
I'm not sure, does the FMAX come with hard pipes? I thought they were plastic/ rubber, whatever. If so, they tend to collapse. I thought the custom Toyomoto hard pipes were a lot of the cost as he hand makes them.
Anyways, glad to see that you're going turbo, instead.
Jeff... I still haven't seen that mid pipe... Any ideas? I'm thinking of going elsewhere on it. I talked to Megan about NOPI and there is a chance we could make it to Atlanta on that Sunday to see you guys.
On a separate note: I've just finished an AVC-R install and I'm totally stoked at the flexibility of this unit. It allows you to set a boost profile that matches your timing curve... For instance, since my intake, MAF and exhaust don't flow well yet at high RPM, I'm able to dial in more boost on the top end... I just upped the duty cycle at 5000rpm, upped it some more at 5500, more, more more, etc. At stock compression from 5500 on up, it actually will hold more than 10psi on pump gas. I've made it to 13psi in this range. Apparently the stock ignition advances the timing most in the 4000 to 5000 range then retards above... In addition to this, you can apply this profile at separate levels in each gear. I've got 1st gear limited to -50% on the duty cycle. This limits my boost to around 8-9 psi in 1st, Allowing almost full throttle in 1st, matching the traction available. In 2nd gear, I raised the gear duty to +5%, to allow for faster boost building and higher boost pressure than 3rd and 4th. It also has two separate channels of boost levels and profiles A/B.. Could be one for NOS, or one for pump gas/race gas. The little display panel is nice, (washes out in direct sunlight, hard but not impossible to read in direct light), and the unit itself is compact and has lost of logging features like peak hold for boost, rpm, duty, km/h, etc. Only bummer is that its calibrated metric.... No MPH, no pounds of boost. Everything is in Bar, Km/h, etc.
Clutch seems to be giving up. Its an RPS carbon stage 3 sprung disk with upgraded plate. I'm not happy with the RPS at all.
5000rpm launches, it doesn't stick well. Speed shifting, occasionaly doesn't stick. Worst thing is when it slips, it slips through the whole run.
Looks like as I get closer to 500rwhp, a Supra tranny swap is needed. (Thats gonna leave a mark...)
I went to the track and ran pretty ****ty with slipping clutch, and bad launches of 2.3 60ft... 13.4@115 and 13.0@115... These were run with STOCK exhaust, though, so I'm pretty happy as this is what I'd see on the street for now until I get the FINALLY done.
Anyways, glad to see that you're going turbo, instead.
Jeff... I still haven't seen that mid pipe... Any ideas? I'm thinking of going elsewhere on it. I talked to Megan about NOPI and there is a chance we could make it to Atlanta on that Sunday to see you guys.
On a separate note: I've just finished an AVC-R install and I'm totally stoked at the flexibility of this unit. It allows you to set a boost profile that matches your timing curve... For instance, since my intake, MAF and exhaust don't flow well yet at high RPM, I'm able to dial in more boost on the top end... I just upped the duty cycle at 5000rpm, upped it some more at 5500, more, more more, etc. At stock compression from 5500 on up, it actually will hold more than 10psi on pump gas. I've made it to 13psi in this range. Apparently the stock ignition advances the timing most in the 4000 to 5000 range then retards above... In addition to this, you can apply this profile at separate levels in each gear. I've got 1st gear limited to -50% on the duty cycle. This limits my boost to around 8-9 psi in 1st, Allowing almost full throttle in 1st, matching the traction available. In 2nd gear, I raised the gear duty to +5%, to allow for faster boost building and higher boost pressure than 3rd and 4th. It also has two separate channels of boost levels and profiles A/B.. Could be one for NOS, or one for pump gas/race gas. The little display panel is nice, (washes out in direct sunlight, hard but not impossible to read in direct light), and the unit itself is compact and has lost of logging features like peak hold for boost, rpm, duty, km/h, etc. Only bummer is that its calibrated metric.... No MPH, no pounds of boost. Everything is in Bar, Km/h, etc.
Clutch seems to be giving up. Its an RPS carbon stage 3 sprung disk with upgraded plate. I'm not happy with the RPS at all.
5000rpm launches, it doesn't stick well. Speed shifting, occasionaly doesn't stick. Worst thing is when it slips, it slips through the whole run.
Looks like as I get closer to 500rwhp, a Supra tranny swap is needed. (Thats gonna leave a mark...)
I went to the track and ran pretty ****ty with slipping clutch, and bad launches of 2.3 60ft... 13.4@115 and 13.0@115... These were run with STOCK exhaust, though, so I'm pretty happy as this is what I'd see on the street for now until I get the FINALLY done.
09-08-01, 06:00 PM
#103
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mid pipe is done he just needs to ship it......be carefull on that motor......nopi ill be in the BFGoodrich tires booth....and RPS is awsome with the 6spd clutches..i have had mine for a year now.......no problems........take it easy Jeff
09-08-01, 07:14 PM
#104
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
On that note....thanks!! As for importtoys...did you even see the last post on that thread? The $300 alarm I got from them doesn't work either. After I did the e-mail tech support thing, they responded once, and then that was the end. Oh well!
F-Max had hard pipes...no plastic. That was one of the first questions I asked. OOoo..... AVC-R! I was looking at that. If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost ya and where'd ya get it from? I was thinking of getting that one, it'll match my S-AFC nicely! How does that thing control the boost anyways? The only turbo's that I personally have owned were already on the cars...so I don't know too much about the actual adjustment of boost....BOV's....wastegates....etc. Well a little, but I can always stand to know more!
As for clutches...what do y'all reccomend? I'm sure my factory clutch with 60k on it will go SOON after a turbo is on there. What should I put on?
SR
F-Max had hard pipes...no plastic. That was one of the first questions I asked. OOoo..... AVC-R! I was looking at that. If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost ya and where'd ya get it from? I was thinking of getting that one, it'll match my S-AFC nicely!
How does that thing control the boost anyways? The only turbo's that I personally have owned were already on the cars...so I don't know too much about the actual adjustment of boost....BOV's....wastegates....etc. Well a little, but I can always stand to know more! As for clutches...what do y'all reccomend? I'm sure my factory clutch with 60k on it will go SOON after a turbo is on there. What should I put on?
SR