TT 1UZ Rebuild
01-08-09 | 07:53 AM
#136
It won't help the turbo life any, but again that’s not what I’m concerned about.
Now an anti lag, although that’s for a launch and not during shifts, delays the ignition until the exhaust valve is open, sending the combusting gases into the header to spool the turbo. This is basically the worst thing if your worried about the turbos life, and over spool. but it's great at building boost off the line. I'm thinking about installing an anti lag system also, but thats a later step. I’m not aware of an anti lag system that works during shifting.
Now an anti lag, although that’s for a launch and not during shifts, delays the ignition until the exhaust valve is open, sending the combusting gases into the header to spool the turbo. This is basically the worst thing if your worried about the turbos life, and over spool. but it's great at building boost off the line. I'm thinking about installing an anti lag system also, but thats a later step. I’m not aware of an anti lag system that works during shifting.
Ever watched a rally race? Listen carefully as they are going around turns at slower speeds... you hear lots of popping and see some flame throwing - that's anti-lag... keeps the turbo spooled while not completely off the throttle...
With AEM's EMS, you can actually program is so that there is no lift to shift, which controls maximum rpm, and combines it with anti-lag, so that the turbos stay spooled 100% and the engine stays at whatever RPM you pick between shifts, no right foot action needed...
01-08-09 | 09:44 AM
#137
First off, mitsuboy needs to learn a little something about sarcasm, I am no stranger to boost myself by any means, but I'm sure as hell not going to brag about some DSM or how much I know or where I've worked. I've read his books man, that doesn't make you special that you happened to work where he did. I've known plenty of ASE and UTI guys that were less than impressive. I'll post pics of the 800+ MKIV I'm building if you want.
Secondly, rdm20; you're setup isn't going to work
1. If you plan on running the turbos at their maximum flow rating, you're more than likely far beyond their efficiency point.
2. Unless those are something like T25-T28 turbos (any T2 frame or small T3), which they aren't, I guarantee you that motor isn't built enough to withstand the CFM that they will produce with free spin on the turbin wheel.
3. If you are by some crazy way diverting pressure from the turbo itself constantly through the exhuast plumbing, you are drastically reducing boost threshold and in the long run it still will not regulate boost.
4. Both of you are seriously confusing the BOV and the wastegate.
5. Are you planning on going half throttle to regulate boost?
This thread is retarded and your build is a whole new level of WTF if you're not running a wastegate, end of story.
Secondly, rdm20; you're setup isn't going to work
1. If you plan on running the turbos at their maximum flow rating, you're more than likely far beyond their efficiency point.
2. Unless those are something like T25-T28 turbos (any T2 frame or small T3), which they aren't, I guarantee you that motor isn't built enough to withstand the CFM that they will produce with free spin on the turbin wheel.
3. If you are by some crazy way diverting pressure from the turbo itself constantly through the exhuast plumbing, you are drastically reducing boost threshold and in the long run it still will not regulate boost.
4. Both of you are seriously confusing the BOV and the wastegate.
5. Are you planning on going half throttle to regulate boost?
This thread is retarded and your build is a whole new level of WTF if you're not running a wastegate, end of story.
Last edited by 2jzlex; 01-08-09 at 09:52 AM.
01-08-09 | 10:00 AM
#138
First off, mitsuboy needs to learn a little something about sarcasm, I am no stranger to boost myself by any means, but I'm sure as hell not going to brag about some DSM or how much I know or where I've worked. I've read his books man, that doesn't make you special that you happened to work where he did. I've known plenty of ASE and UTI guys that were less than impressive. I'll post pics of the 800+ MKIV I'm building if you want.
Secondly, rdm20; you're setup isn't going to work
1. If you plan on running the turbos at their maximum flow rating, you're more than likely far beyond their efficiency point.
2. Unless those are something like T25-T28 turbos (any T2 frame or small T3), which they aren't, I guarantee you that motor isn't built enough to withstand the CFM that they will produce with free spin on the turbin wheel.
3. If you are by some crazy way diverting pressure from the turbo itself constantly through the exhuast plumbing, you are drastically reducing boost threshold and in the long run it still will not regulate boost.
4. Both of you are seriously confusing the BOV and the wastegate.
5. Are you planning on going half throttle to regulate boost?
This thread is retarded and your build is a whole new level of WTF if you're not running a wastegate, end of story.
Secondly, rdm20; you're setup isn't going to work
1. If you plan on running the turbos at their maximum flow rating, you're more than likely far beyond their efficiency point.
2. Unless those are something like T25-T28 turbos (any T2 frame or small T3), which they aren't, I guarantee you that motor isn't built enough to withstand the CFM that they will produce with free spin on the turbin wheel.
3. If you are by some crazy way diverting pressure from the turbo itself constantly through the exhuast plumbing, you are drastically reducing boost threshold and in the long run it still will not regulate boost.
4. Both of you are seriously confusing the BOV and the wastegate.
5. Are you planning on going half throttle to regulate boost?
This thread is retarded and your build is a whole new level of WTF if you're not running a wastegate, end of story.
We agree, so why are you being an *** about it?
I actually do understand how he theorizes this to work, and can see it working, but the costs far outweigh the benefits...
I was just giving a little info that I have a pretty good working knowledge of turbo cars... Besides, you are bragging same as I am - about your 800 hp not running Supra...
edit: and how am I confusing the blow off valve and a wastegate - a wastegate regulates boost, a blowoff valve prevents damage to the turbo when the throttle is closed quickly...
Last edited by mitsuguy; 01-08-09 at 10:05 AM.
01-08-09 | 11:00 AM
#139
Wow, I've never seen a turbo setup without a wastegate. I think you need to seriously reconsider your design. Let me dumb it down a little more for you.
1. The turbo's are powered by the exhaust gas as it exits the engine.
2. Then the throttle is opened, more air enters, and therefore exits, the engine.
3. As the gas flow increases, the boost increases.
4. Without a wastegate, your turbos will continue to spool, and BLOW UP.
5. By venting the pressure with the blow off valve, you will pretty much have a constant boost leak and turbos that are running at their full capacity 100% of the time.
6. Bye bye turbos/engine
Hope this helps. How much of a problem is it to add an extra grand worth of parts, to save yourself ten grand?
1. The turbo's are powered by the exhaust gas as it exits the engine.
2. Then the throttle is opened, more air enters, and therefore exits, the engine.
3. As the gas flow increases, the boost increases.
4. Without a wastegate, your turbos will continue to spool, and BLOW UP.
5. By venting the pressure with the blow off valve, you will pretty much have a constant boost leak and turbos that are running at their full capacity 100% of the time.
6. Bye bye turbos/engine
Hope this helps. How much of a problem is it to add an extra grand worth of parts, to save yourself ten grand?
01-08-09 | 11:24 AM
#140
Wow, I've never seen a turbo setup without a wastegate. I think you need to seriously reconsider your design. Let me dumb it down a little more for you.
1. The turbo's are powered by the exhaust gas as it exits the engine.
2. Then the throttle is opened, more air enters, and therefore exits, the engine.
3. As the gas flow increases, the boost increases.
4. Without a wastegate, your turbos will continue to spool, and BLOW UP.
5. By venting the pressure with the blow off valve, you will pretty much have a constant boost leak and turbos that are running at their full capacity 100% of the time.
6. Bye bye turbos/engine
Hope this helps. How much of a problem is it to add an extra grand worth of parts, to save yourself ten grand?
1. The turbo's are powered by the exhaust gas as it exits the engine.
2. Then the throttle is opened, more air enters, and therefore exits, the engine.
3. As the gas flow increases, the boost increases.
4. Without a wastegate, your turbos will continue to spool, and BLOW UP.
5. By venting the pressure with the blow off valve, you will pretty much have a constant boost leak and turbos that are running at their full capacity 100% of the time.
6. Bye bye turbos/engine
Hope this helps. How much of a problem is it to add an extra grand worth of parts, to save yourself ten grand?
01-08-09 | 06:11 PM
#141
Guys,
Rdm20fan already made a decision on how to build his system, so I believe all of your points are already taken into his consideration, probably before you brought them up. He's not new to building the engine or the turbo system. You can see how nice his system is built. In fact, he's one of the first person who actually built a turbo SC400 and made it running into reality, while many others just keep dreaming of building one, including myself. So give him some trust and see how it turns out. I believe he did enough research and knows what he's doing. Even if it might not turn out the way he wanted, he still has the credit of venturing into a special setup.
Some of your points are respected, but some of the words that you used aren't kind enough to be called "sharing". They're more like showing off with the pants off.
Rdm20fan already made a decision on how to build his system, so I believe all of your points are already taken into his consideration, probably before you brought them up. He's not new to building the engine or the turbo system. You can see how nice his system is built. In fact, he's one of the first person who actually built a turbo SC400 and made it running into reality, while many others just keep dreaming of building one, including myself. So give him some trust and see how it turns out. I believe he did enough research and knows what he's doing. Even if it might not turn out the way he wanted, he still has the credit of venturing into a special setup.
Some of your points are respected, but some of the words that you used aren't kind enough to be called "sharing". They're more like showing off with the pants off.
01-08-09 | 09:19 PM
#142
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Thanks Steve. Again I appreciate your comments.
Turbos were not designed with wastegates originally. allot of new diesel engines today don't run wastegates. A wastegate is used to regulate boost, and increase the turbos life. Again I'm not worried about the turbo life. and the no wastegate isn't my idea. I didn't just come up with it. I basically copied the idea from a couple turbo books I read.
I have seen the no wastegate work, and nothing "Blows Up". Smokey Yunick used this trick years ago to basically cheat a boost rule.
Turbos were not designed with wastegates originally. allot of new diesel engines today don't run wastegates. A wastegate is used to regulate boost, and increase the turbos life. Again I'm not worried about the turbo life. and the no wastegate isn't my idea. I didn't just come up with it. I basically copied the idea from a couple turbo books I read.
I have seen the no wastegate work, and nothing "Blows Up". Smokey Yunick used this trick years ago to basically cheat a boost rule.
01-08-09 | 09:36 PM
#143
I don't really care what he has done or not done, if his system is built nice or not, or what his or his shops theory/reasoing is. This isn't the way to build a quality, reliable, or properly functioning turbocharging system. I'm not a punk that hates change or against trying something new, I'm all for it. Problem is this setup is asking for problems, period /thread end of story. People think equal length runners on exhaust manifolds for turbos are ideal which isn't the case at all, people still think BOVs are performance upgrades, people still think intake temps get hot on turbos because it passes by the turbine housing and it gets hotter by transitive heat, people go to tech schools to learn things, doesn't mean they know what they are talking about or what things are really like in practice. Bottom line is, there are setups that work, and those that don't, this is one of those that fall into the latter. If he knew the ifs and whys of everything I think it would be a different story to just try something different, but I don't think this is the case. yes Mitsuboy is trying to flaunt his so called knowledge, he should stick to his sig upgrades though. 
01-08-09 | 09:45 PM
#144
Don't comapre diesel turbo systems to regular turboed cars, that's apples to oranges.
On a sidenote, I just now found the one picture describing what you're going to do, I missed it the first time around. I still think it's a bassackwards way to do it and your reasons for doing it aren't justified, but it is interesting.....
On a sidenote, I just now found the one picture describing what you're going to do, I missed it the first time around. I still think it's a bassackwards way to do it and your reasons for doing it aren't justified, but it is interesting.....
Last edited by 2jzlex; 01-09-09 at 08:47 AM.
Have fun.
01-09-09 | 03:49 PM
#149
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 714
Likes: 13
From: Florida
Clearly, the quality of the build is outstanding; so, I for one give rdm20fan the benefit of the doubt regarding his method of controlling boost. Plus, if venting boost pressure doesn't work, adding wastegates later is, if anything, convenient given the routing of the exhaust directly below the turbo manifolds.
I'm in for hearing more about how boost pressure is vented. After all, I would think a variable valve (ironically like a wastegate) is needed on the charge pipe to allow control of different boost levels. Can you please provide info on how boost is incrementally controlled?
Thanks!
-scott