Tech question about turbos
09-29-01, 07:46 PM
#16
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NoLongerA13bFan
What king of car is that?? All I see is turbos!
CmputerWiz, you’re on the money for that one.
Yeah I have looked at that set up and by far it is the easiest system to build where by one turbo directly feeds the other. I have a couple of concerns with that particular set up though. First off the efficiency of the system, when compared to a potential, is very poor. The heat generated is also very high, where cooling would be a big problem (compressed air).
My concerns are:
I am guessing the turbos must be close to each other in proximity, b/c of spooling verse vacuum problems. If the 1st turbo is much larger then the second one, wouldn't the second turbo receive too much air where by creating a pressure b/w the turbos.
Lastly that system must be very difficult to control with an fc, vpc, and bc? I think you would require a stand alone unit and some serious tuning and lots of?
DaveH,
I don't know if you picked up on this but I have been asking you various thing about your set up, on supra forums.
Thanks for the dyno graph.
I have been to your site and have been trying to design my system based off of your phr intake. Do you have any more pictures of your install, and or components? (other then the ones on your site). Also are you using your stock bottom end? How much did the phr intake mfld cost and were there any problems when you relocated your throttle body.
you can run as much boost as you want as long as its not a ghetto rigged system Lol, dang thats funny, I guess I should change my plate to gtostyl
As soon as I get some bugs worked out of my sketches I will post some.
Please keep the ideas coming.
What king of car is that?? All I see is turbos!
CmputerWiz, you’re on the money for that one.
Yeah I have looked at that set up and by far it is the easiest system to build where by one turbo directly feeds the other. I have a couple of concerns with that particular set up though. First off the efficiency of the system, when compared to a potential, is very poor. The heat generated is also very high, where cooling would be a big problem (compressed air).
My concerns are:
I am guessing the turbos must be close to each other in proximity, b/c of spooling verse vacuum problems. If the 1st turbo is much larger then the second one, wouldn't the second turbo receive too much air where by creating a pressure b/w the turbos.
Lastly that system must be very difficult to control with an fc, vpc, and bc? I think you would require a stand alone unit and some serious tuning and lots of?
DaveH,
I don't know if you picked up on this but I have been asking you various thing about your set up, on supra forums.
Thanks for the dyno graph.I have been to your site and have been trying to design my system based off of your phr intake. Do you have any more pictures of your install, and or components? (other then the ones on your site). Also are you using your stock bottom end? How much did the phr intake mfld cost and were there any problems when you relocated your throttle body.
you can run as much boost as you want as long as its not a ghetto rigged system Lol, dang thats funny, I guess I should change my plate to gtostyl
As soon as I get some bugs worked out of my sketches I will post some.
Please keep the ideas coming.
09-29-01, 11:10 PM
#17
lol
hey man duct tape will get you places, but once you start pushing the envelope, that good ole southern-engineering won't get you far down the road
and i know what i'm talking about with southern-engineering; i'm from Mobile... duct-tape is the cure-all for everything from cars to popped tires to cuts and bruises
hey man duct tape will get you places, but once you start pushing the envelope, that good ole southern-engineering won't get you far down the road
and i know what i'm talking about with southern-engineering; i'm from Mobile... duct-tape is the cure-all for everything from cars to popped tires to cuts and bruises
09-30-01, 04:55 AM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
Duct tape and turbos go hand in hand! A guy at work has a Mitsubishi GSX. He put in a new chip or whatever to raise the boost level on the factory turbo. Well in NO time, the intake pipe (which is this rubber/plastic stuff that EXPANDS when it gets boost) cracked and of course a split in it made just a "little" boost leak.
On with the duct tape! We wrapped that thing with an entire roll. No more flex! He said the response from the turbo is way better now than it was before, the pipe can't expand at all, so it's not losing any boost!
Oh the engineers that created high temp duct tape MUST be REALLY rich by now.
SR
On with the duct tape! We wrapped that thing with an entire roll. No more flex! He said the response from the turbo is way better now than it was before, the pipe can't expand at all, so it's not losing any boost!
Oh the engineers that created high temp duct tape MUST be REALLY rich by now.
SR
10-01-01, 06:24 AM
#20
thats believable... they run CRAZY compression numbers on those diesels... since they run off a kind of controlled detonation they can do that although they have like a redline of 2500rpms or something, but they make stupid amounts of torque in that small area
although they have like a redline of 2500rpms or something, but they make stupid amounts of torque in that small area
10-01-01, 08:00 AM
#21
Lexus Test Driver
I learned the hard way about the compression on diesels....we tried to push-start a manual mercedes....DOH! 25:1 is what it's at!! Hmmm...maybe I should run some diesel in my car to lower the chance of detonation at high boost...LOL
(j/k)
SR
(j/k)
SR
10-01-01, 12:31 PM
#22
haha
diesel's injection system
I wonder what that would do
I plan on having an alcohol injection system in mine to cool the intake charge and raise the octane rating when over 15psi... looks cheap since the alcohol can be bought in riteaid or walgreens
25:1 lol
i bet that thing BUCKS when letting off the gas
diesel's injection system
I wonder what that would doI plan on having an alcohol injection system in mine to cool the intake charge and raise the octane rating when over 15psi... looks cheap since the alcohol can be bought in riteaid or walgreens
25:1 lol
i bet that thing BUCKS when letting off the gas
10-02-01, 06:40 PM
#23
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The big problem with the sequential setup when placing a smaller turbo primary and larger turbo secondary is that there would be HUGE lag, and drop in boost preasure when the second turbo came on. I've seen custom setups like this done a couple of times and they ethier use the bigger turbo primary or both turbos of the same size. The picture above is of a diesel engine I've seen this setup used in tractor pulling. They stage the turbos two even three of them by have them feed into each other. The first turbos compressor outlet feeds into the second compress inlet and the second into the third etc.. This is done to get more air and boost up 100psi into the desiel engines which creates incredible power without overstreesing the turbos. The problem is this staged system heats the air astronomically they must use huge amounts of water injection and intercooling to keep down the tempature.
10-02-01, 11:29 PM
#24
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Duct tape, is the magic of all crafts men, bare none. Ya I used to swear by that stuff when I had me old Dakota, pretty much everything was duct taped, including most of the exhaust. Damn rust 
Diesel is fun stuff to play with, but tinkering = huge detonation, my friend ate 3 6.5 turbo engines in his Chevy, before the tranny said to bad for you.
XX400
The momentary boost drop is what is plaguing all of my designs for the sequential set ups so far. I am trying to set the turbo ratios so there will be a slight overlap of the rpm band, but so far I still have not solved the problem. Still trying to figure out how to pre spool the secondary turbo, before the wg lets it fly.
One more question, lets say I want to run the twins set up, but non sequential. I know hks and blitz both spool well over 5000rpm, those turbos are about t3 t4 sizes an approximately flow 400-500 bhp worth of air each. Now instead of the turbos spooling 5000+ couldn't I use two equally sized turbos but with smaller trim on the exhaust side to say get the turbos spooling at about 4000rpm?
Any ideas on this?
Oh these brain farts are starting to hurt, ouchy....
Diesel is fun stuff to play with, but tinkering = huge detonation, my friend ate 3 6.5 turbo engines in his Chevy, before the tranny said to bad for you.
XX400
The momentary boost drop is what is plaguing all of my designs for the sequential set ups so far. I am trying to set the turbo ratios so there will be a slight overlap of the rpm band, but so far I still have not solved the problem. Still trying to figure out how to pre spool the secondary turbo, before the wg lets it fly.
One more question, lets say I want to run the twins set up, but non sequential. I know hks and blitz both spool well over 5000rpm, those turbos are about t3 t4 sizes an approximately flow 400-500 bhp worth of air each. Now instead of the turbos spooling 5000+ couldn't I use two equally sized turbos but with smaller trim on the exhaust side to say get the turbos spooling at about 4000rpm?
Any ideas on this?
Oh these brain farts are starting to hurt, ouchy....
10-03-01, 11:46 AM
#27
check out what Pettit does on their Banzai three rotor RX-7
they have a larger primary and a smaller secondary and they are true twin
its not a sequential setup; but its in the same spirit of a sequential setup where one turbo that is smaller spools to make up for the lower powerband... this system would have no flatspots in the power band
they have a larger primary and a smaller secondary and they are true twin
its not a sequential setup; but its in the same spirit of a sequential setup where one turbo that is smaller spools to make up for the lower powerband... this system would have no flatspots in the power band
10-05-01, 11:00 AM
#29
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I have a second site up at www.speedtoys.com/~daveh/93na-t
Yes, stock bottom end and top end. I got the manifold used from Powerhouse for $1k. I had to extend the throttle cable and coolant lines to reach the relocated throttle body
Dave H.
93na-t
10.86@126
Yes, stock bottom end and top end.
I got the manifold used from Powerhouse for $1k. I had to extend the throttle cable and coolant lines to reach the relocated throttle bodyDave H.
93na-t
10.86@126
Originally posted by Ear Candy
NoLongerA13bFan
DaveH,
I don't know if you picked up on this but I have been asking you various thing about your set up, on supra forums. Thanks for the dyno graph.
I have been to your site and have been trying to design my system based off of your phr intake. Do you have any more pictures of your install, and or components? (other then the ones on your site). Also are you using your stock bottom end? How much did the phr intake mfld cost and were there any problems when you relocated your throttle body.
Please keep the ideas coming.
NoLongerA13bFan
DaveH,
I don't know if you picked up on this but I have been asking you various thing about your set up, on supra forums.
Thanks for the dyno graph.I have been to your site and have been trying to design my system based off of your phr intake. Do you have any more pictures of your install, and or components? (other then the ones on your site). Also are you using your stock bottom end? How much did the phr intake mfld cost and were there any problems when you relocated your throttle body.
Please keep the ideas coming.
10-07-01, 02:24 PM
#30
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Originally posted by DaveH
Yes, stock bottom end and top end. I got the manifold used from Powerhouse for $1k. I had to extend the throttle cable and coolant lines to reach the relocated throttle body
Dave H.
93na-t
10.86@126
Yes, stock bottom end and top end.
I got the manifold used from Powerhouse for $1k. I had to extend the throttle cable and coolant lines to reach the relocated throttle bodyDave H.
93na-t
10.86@126
Wow, good numbers of the stock bottom, and head. Dave how far are you from the Canadian US, boarder? If you still reside in ND then I am only a few hours away from you.
What size of N20 do you run? Are you using piggy back with the stock ecu or stand alone electronics?
Did you have any trouble with the gas pedal spring rate to actual acceleration, after you lengthened the cables? Any real difficulty with the coolant lines?
Bean,
I you are talking about the 20b 3 rotor gen3 rx7 swap right? IF this is the one then, doesn’t pettit racing use the, slightly larger then 13b stock sequential turbos that came with the 20b? I was on there site and could not find anything about them using a twin system smaller and larger turbo. If you have a link, or a source, or more info, please post. Thanks
Do folks know of the link to RPS’ turbo site? I have not been able to find their site, thanks,
Jakub