CleanSC

Plumbing issues. Having different banks of cylinders (three on each side) always complicates a turbo system. Plus, if you decide to go twin turbo on a V6, then it really gets fun as you basically have two of everything.

vraa

iTrader: (2)

Nos however is limited.
You can't 'run out' of a supercharger or 'run out' of a turbocharger.

CleanSC

Nitrous also has a lag issue. You can't slam a 100-shot worth of nitrous into your engine at 1,500 rpm and partial throttle. You have to be at WOT and above a rather high RPM to safely engage it. Most turbo systems are fully boosted by that RPM anyway.

vraa

iTrader: (2)

I didn't know NOS had a lag issue, that's interesting.
I've learned everything I know about cars by reading car forums!

jibbby

There is no lag time with nos are you crazy? You punch the throttle the pressurised nos bottle thrusts the nitrous into the engine on a dry system...It is faster then anything out their, A slit second..Turbo's and superchargers are slower.. Infact people turn to progressive nos shots because it is too responsive and powerful from launch.....Nitrous when activated jolts and stresses the drivetran, the stock internal engine parts too, and also jolts your neck back too...There is no gradual excelleration, the rpms jump so fast....No delay at launch or when punching it while driving on the freeway either...The power is always available as long as the bottle is full and the nos system is armed..

Why do you think so many people are afraid to nos up their smaller engine cars?...Because things break from the nos jolt that is instant......

Oh and I would rather be Supercharged first, Turbo'd second and then Nos third on my SC400... Nos is not better then airforced induction..I would dump my nos system for airforced induction...but when the nos is used it is rude and instant power to the wheels and hard to beat........

People are spinning out their rears immediately from launch with 100hp nos shots running on the stock SC4 torque converters...Don't think 100hp superchargers and turbo's can do that...Not immediately atleast.

CleanSC

Yea I'm a little crazy but it's irrelevant here.

I perfectly understand how and why nitrous works. Yes, it's an instant hit when you get it, and yes turbos are slower -- but they start spooling earlier than nitrous can be activated.

Nitrous is in fact laggy but in a different way. For example, a properly installed nitrous system will only activate over a certain rpm. Let's go with 3,000 rpm which is a typical turn-on rpm for nitrous. A proper system will have a window switch that would allow the system only to activate at WOT, and between 3k and redline or just before.

So this being the case, you need to wait until 3k rpm for the nitrous. Waiting for power to come up. That's lag. And on my T66, I'm just about fully boosted by then. In fact, I actually have much of the torque before 3k rpm so depending on the setup, turbos start delivering power before nitrous can.

And yes, another undesireable trait of nitrous is what you brought up as well. Having 250 foot pounds of torque in one engine revolution and then 350 the next is not my idea of a good time. God forbid that kick in the teeth comes in the middle of a corner. Without a progressive controller, nitrous is a nasty on/off power adder with no control. It's great for stop light battles tho if that's your thing.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking it. I've had an NX kit. The point is you have to wait with nitrous a little bit much like with turbos.

And I haven't even mentioned the lag caused by fill-ups.

5spdSC300

iTrader: (1)

Lets not forget theres diffrent types of superchargers. With a centrifugal supercharger, you do get instant power but its a gradual. My friend with a vortech 95 cobra is running a 10psi pulley but he doesn't make 10psi till redline. It will build 3-4psi almost instantly and have 7psi through out his mid range and will creep to 10psi near redline. I will say that power delivery is very smooth and gradual.

Positive displacment roots style blowers will have boost instantly and hit full boost much faster than centrifugal blowers but when running more boost, the boost usally tapers near redline. This is just a very general statment and will vary on the size of the blower.

There is also some talk about response and if anyone has been in a properly sized turbo car, response is awesome. There is a trade off though, you can't have massive amounts of power and expect good response.

jibbby

Root chargers is what I was referring to all along...There is really is no lag with those....


NITROUS - Still disagree with the 3000rpm lag time...There is a button underneathe the gas pedal so the time it takes you to punch the gas then the nos is activated...A split second is all it takes to get the nos going in my car at any time...AGAIN NO LAG AT ALL...That is the best thing about nos is no lag and kicks extremely hard...Tough to beat if you can master the traction and uncontrolled excelleration...Remember there is no gradual excelleration with a nos system..

How long does it take you to floor the gas pedal, that is your only lag time..I can floor the pedal at idle and activate the nos instantly....

Power delays in the order I see it...Starting with the least -


-Nitrous
-N/A engine power by itself
-Supercharger "root"
-Supercharger "centrifugal"
-Turbo (exhaust)

CleanSC

So you're telling us you activate your nitrous at idle?

The typical nitrous setup I'm referring to here is one where the nitrous is not allowed to be activated below 3,000 rpm. This is done as a safety precaution.

Now if you're spraying off idle more power to ya. I'd never try nor recommend it.

5spdSC300

iTrader: (1)

NOTHING is more responsive than NA. There is no delay in power deliever.

jibbby

I've been hammering the throttle with nos for over two years on a 100hp dry system...The Iuz-fe motor still purs and haven't had one problem...I abuse this motor daily with nos shots....The tranny is worked over a bit and the u-joint on the driveshaft needed to be replaced...These engines are as solid as tanks..

I don't know if the nos engages under 3000rpm, but at idle if I floor the gas pedal the nos instantely kicks...A split second is all it takes....I don't use the nos like that because I just will do a wicked half a block burnout from launch, cause a smoke screen and waste my rear tires......I hit the nos at about 20-30mph then in second my rears cherp a bit but then I grip...That is for the fastest runs...So it more of a timely thing with my nos, but it is instant...

jibbby

Again to reach peak engine power output performance nothing is faster then a dry nos system....Nothing....Not N/A either...Straight fuel and gradual excelleration will not beat out pressurised nos injection...

kietlander

u said the nitrous is INSTANT but u dont use it that way. instead u wait til ur at 20-30mph to spray. buy that time a turboed car would have passed u a long time ago. no one in there right mind would spray right off the line in there DD. and u forgot to add the duration of which u can spray for. its not as long as boost holds... sure off the line for a couple of seconds.. but what if ur doin a highway pull... it wont get u anywhere.

one more thing... ur only limited to spray as much as u have in the bottle. im sure most of us here dont want to go get that thing refilled all the time. nitrous in my mind is just a cheap way to make power. by far not the most reliable thing u can do. boost is the only way to go. which ever way u like to boost is up to u. turbos for our cars tend to be more effictive then a supercharger. cheaper too i might add.

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

Agreed, NA is very responsive and tough to beat in a properly tuned factory car...But power is mainly limited to engine displacement and the amount of fuel and oxygen the engine can burn in a given time...Here is the actual definition: "Horsepower is defined as work done over time. The exact definition of one horsepower is 33,000 lb.ft./minute. Put another way, if you were to lift 33,000 pounds one foot over a period of one minute, you would have been working at the rate of one horsepower. In this case, you'd have expended one horsepower-minute of energy." So, for example, because of the smooth and well-tuned NA power of the 06 Z06 and that being mainly from its displacement, you can see why the car acclerates so evenly...But the problem is, to get even more power, how much bigger can you make the engine, the injectors and fuel system, etc, before it becomes very impractical, but also extremely inefficient to drive on the street?

This is where forced induction comes in to play...It adds more fuel and power on an as needed basis, especially a turbo system. And, a well designed, fitted, matched and tuned FI system can be very smooth...just depends upon doing it right...

Ryan

jibbby

Fella's I agree boosting is the way to go for over all and long term satisfaction......All I am saying nothing delivers immediate power like nitrous oxide injection...I've been in turbo'd cars and they are impressive once the boost is fully going...Twin turbo pull is impressive...Again with nos there is no gradual pull it is just immediate power......I've raced turbo'd guys and have been able to hold them off with the nitrous....Freeway too....It's not as good as forced air induction but when used I believe it is more effecient and effective....Progressive nos shot would be ideal off the line with a proper traction setup...With my Dragon T.C. short wheel diameter, Supra LSD gearing, reduced weight, I can spin both fat rears from launch without nos and still get a pretty decent pull in first gear, then I activate the nos for second gear and so forth....Good pull throughout and tough to beat...That is my experience...

Again, I am not bragging about NOS, and I would much rather be sitting on a single GT35R turbo setup fully boosted to max output, or a big **** custom fit (root) supercharger fit and running directly off the crank by using a double and fully balanced and integrated crank pulley......all day long....Coming soon too...