ATTN: Turbo SC300 guys
11-02-01, 01:09 PM
#16
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the engine swap is a biatch.......how ever you look at it its alot easier to bolt on a turbo kit to your motor.....toyomoto stage 1 is 5500...and if you pick up a used intercooler you can get the kit for like 5000......and this will give you more hp than a stock tt motor....and you keep your cruise control....ect ect...Jeff
11-02-01, 03:31 PM
#17
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Agreed, the swap is not needed... It just adds a lot of labor. If you're wanting a certain kit for the TT like the HKS twins, you'll need the TT swap, otherwise, the regular 2JZ with turbo will save you a lot of $$$. Besides, after the swap and $20k cost, you've still got a stock GTE motor, even upgraded you're at 400rwhp, no more...
11-03-01, 09:21 AM
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Things that make you go hrm........
First off, thanks to everyone who has responded on this thread.
I see the TT swap doesn't go over well around here
I just want to think outloud for a second, and see what you guys think.
If you want to get big power out of the 2JZ-GE you are going to have to lower the compression down to avoid detonation. You are also going to have to drill and tap for the oil lines for the turbo. When I spoke to SP Engineering about this they said "Pull the motor".
If I am going to have to pull the motor to lower the compression and install the lines for the turbo, I might as well look into doing the 2JZ-GTE swap.
Plus you will have the TT ECU, which has tons of aftermarket options for it (not to mention a higher stock redline/rev limit).
Nothing is set in stone yet, that is why I am polling the audience here
Anyone care to comment on the above?
Mike
I see the TT swap doesn't go over well around here
I just want to think outloud for a second, and see what you guys think.
If you want to get big power out of the 2JZ-GE you are going to have to lower the compression down to avoid detonation. You are also going to have to drill and tap for the oil lines for the turbo. When I spoke to SP Engineering about this they said "Pull the motor".
If I am going to have to pull the motor to lower the compression and install the lines for the turbo, I might as well look into doing the 2JZ-GTE swap.
Plus you will have the TT ECU, which has tons of aftermarket options for it (not to mention a higher stock redline/rev limit).
Nothing is set in stone yet, that is why I am polling the audience here
Anyone care to comment on the above?
Mike
11-03-01, 10:04 AM
#19
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When I spoke to SP Engineering about this they said "Pull the motor".
Pull the motor??? Why? None of us have pulled the motor.
"If I am going to have to pull the motor to lower the compression and install the lines for the turbo, I might as well look into doing the 2JZ-GTE swap."
Again, why? The GTE has so many different sensors, the ECU is different, alot of the wiring is different, the ignition system is different, the intake is different. You're making a ton of extra work that is not needed. There are few logical reasons for switching.
The stock GE motor can sustain well over 600rwhp! Toyomoto has done it, Powerhouse has done it, Craig Paisley has used the GE motor and put insane power through it. There are many people over the 500rwhp point on this engine.
SP engineering may not have done much with the 2JZGE and perhaps that's why they're going that route. Are you talking about SP in Cali, or SP as in Sound Performance, Chicago? I've not heard that SP engineering in CA is a particular expert on the 2JZ.
"Plus you will have the TT ECU, which has tons of aftermarket options for it (not to mention a higher stock redline/rev limit)."
The same ECU options are available for the GE as the GTE.... If you're so inclined, G-Force can update the ECU in a similar way. None of us suggest this, as its almost as expensive just to upgrade the ECU as to go with a Haltech stand alone box.
"If you want to get big power out of the 2JZ-GE you are going to have to lower the compression down to avoid detonation."
That depends on what you'd call big.... I've spanked a mid 12second 2002 Z06, and beat an 11 second 150shot NOS powered LS1 without problem on stock compression. I've never had a close race with any of the BPU Supras I've run.
I'd suggest some calls to Toyomoto and SP as in Sound Performance, for some advice.
Pull the motor??? Why? None of us have pulled the motor.
"If I am going to have to pull the motor to lower the compression and install the lines for the turbo, I might as well look into doing the 2JZ-GTE swap."
Again, why? The GTE has so many different sensors, the ECU is different, alot of the wiring is different, the ignition system is different, the intake is different. You're making a ton of extra work that is not needed. There are few logical reasons for switching.
The stock GE motor can sustain well over 600rwhp! Toyomoto has done it, Powerhouse has done it, Craig Paisley has used the GE motor and put insane power through it. There are many people over the 500rwhp point on this engine.
SP engineering may not have done much with the 2JZGE and perhaps that's why they're going that route. Are you talking about SP in Cali, or SP as in Sound Performance, Chicago? I've not heard that SP engineering in CA is a particular expert on the 2JZ.
"Plus you will have the TT ECU, which has tons of aftermarket options for it (not to mention a higher stock redline/rev limit)."
The same ECU options are available for the GE as the GTE.... If you're so inclined, G-Force can update the ECU in a similar way. None of us suggest this, as its almost as expensive just to upgrade the ECU as to go with a Haltech stand alone box.
"If you want to get big power out of the 2JZ-GE you are going to have to lower the compression down to avoid detonation."
That depends on what you'd call big.... I've spanked a mid 12second 2002 Z06, and beat an 11 second 150shot NOS powered LS1 without problem on stock compression. I've never had a close race with any of the BPU Supras I've run.
I'd suggest some calls to Toyomoto and SP as in Sound Performance, for some advice.
11-03-01, 01:02 PM
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Scott,
I am sorry, I was not clear on who I spoke with. I spoke with Sound Performance in the Chicago area. I spoke with the man they call Larry (aka Lar). He was the one that said "if you are going to replace the headgasket, pull the motor".
I would not feel comfortable running the car on the ragged edge (stock compression and 15+ PSI) daily. Maybe I just don't have faith in a great motor?
And yes, I am looking into the Haltech E6K route, as I have experience with that ECU on rotarys and RX-7s.
Thanks again guys. Keep it up! Let's make this the best turbo thread ever!!!!
Mike
I am sorry, I was not clear on who I spoke with. I spoke with Sound Performance in the Chicago area. I spoke with the man they call Larry (aka Lar). He was the one that said "if you are going to replace the headgasket, pull the motor".
I would not feel comfortable running the car on the ragged edge (stock compression and 15+ PSI) daily. Maybe I just don't have faith in a great motor?
And yes, I am looking into the Haltech E6K route, as I have experience with that ECU on rotarys and RX-7s.
Thanks again guys. Keep it up! Let's make this the best turbo thread ever!!!!
Mike
11-03-01, 02:57 PM
#21
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I just laid down 423.4RWHP corrected on pump gas. I was right after a 380RWHP BPU Supra. It felt pretty good, especially on low boost and pump gas. Next time up there, I'll be armed with CAM2 and 18psi. I was just looking to get a baseline on my output. This is also with stock mufflers and stock MAF.
11-03-01, 11:28 PM
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Was Larry saying if you are going to do a head gasket it would be easier to do it with the motor out of the car, or was he saying you should put in a TT motor... I know they pull the motor to do a head gasket...
-Ethan
-Ethan
11-03-01, 11:30 PM
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Another thing... It seems to me the problems with the N/A motor are:
1. You run out of cam at @550 RWHP on boost (no nitrous)
2. You don't get oil squirters.
3. No one makes big cams for it (yet, we have some in the works guys).
Other than that I see NO reason to go to a TT motor... I am CONSIDERING going with a TT block for the oil squirters, but I doubt I do, because I don't think the benefit is worth the cost.
-Ethan
1. You run out of cam at @550 RWHP on boost (no nitrous)
2. You don't get oil squirters.
3. No one makes big cams for it (yet, we have some in the works guys
).Other than that I see NO reason to go to a TT motor... I am CONSIDERING going with a TT block for the oil squirters, but I doubt I do, because I don't think the benefit is worth the cost.
-Ethan
11-03-01, 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by Ebanks
Was Larry saying if you are going to do a head gasket it would be easier to do it with the motor out of the car, or was he saying you should put in a TT motor... I know they pull the motor to do a head gasket...
Was Larry saying if you are going to do a head gasket it would be easier to do it with the motor out of the car, or was he saying you should put in a TT motor... I know they pull the motor to do a head gasket...
I actually didn't ask Larry anything about the TT motor swap when I had him on the phone last week.
Mike
11-03-01, 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by Ebanks
Another thing... It seems to me the problems with the N/A motor are:
1. You run out of cam at @550 RWHP on boost (no nitrous)
2. You don't get oil squirters.
3. No one makes big cams for it (yet, we have some in the works guys).
Another thing... It seems to me the problems with the N/A motor are:
1. You run out of cam at @550 RWHP on boost (no nitrous)
2. You don't get oil squirters.
3. No one makes big cams for it (yet, we have some in the works guys
).Not to mention they already start out with a higher rev limiter also.
Excuse my ignorance, but what do the oil squirters do? I am guessing some type of oil injection into the combustion chamber?
Mike
11-04-01, 12:26 AM
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Actually it isn't into the combustion chamber I don't think... It cools the piston for the bottom side. IMHO if you are turboing a N/A and you are going to have to spend like $1500 on VPC/GCC you might as well spend the extra $1k and get stand alone so you can run whatever injector you want, and get more tuneability.
I run 785cc injectors, and my car idles perfect, and get 20+ MPG city, and 25+MPG highway ( I am selling my 785cc actually, and going bigger). Depending on how big of a turbo you go with you really don't need a huge rev limiter.. If you go BIG turbo though, you may want to bump it up, but we have my car set to shift around 7k with the SP63, and it is fine. (I am selling the 63 too, with 2 different exhaust housings).
-Ethan
I run 785cc injectors, and my car idles perfect, and get 20+ MPG city, and 25+MPG highway ( I am selling my 785cc actually, and going bigger). Depending on how big of a turbo you go with you really don't need a huge rev limiter.. If you go BIG turbo though, you may want to bump it up, but we have my car set to shift around 7k with the SP63, and it is fine. (I am selling the 63 too, with 2 different exhaust housings
).-Ethan
11-04-01, 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by SC300T
SP engineering may not have done much with the 2JZGE and perhaps that's why they're going that route. Are you talking about SP in Cali, or SP as in Sound Performance, Chicago? I've not heard that SP engineering in CA is a particular expert on the 2JZ.
SP engineering may not have done much with the 2JZGE and perhaps that's why they're going that route. Are you talking about SP in Cali, or SP as in Sound Performance, Chicago? I've not heard that SP engineering in CA is a particular expert on the 2JZ.
-Ethan
11-04-01, 04:04 AM
#29
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Mike_Lex... I don't know if you've seen my thread "Could it be...Turbo?" but it shows the entire turbo install process that I've gone thru with my car over the past couple weeks.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...threadid=24570
I didn't do the headgasket, but I saw no reason to pull the motor to do it. I'm actually thinking about going with the headgasket now...so I can run some insane boost levels.
But I'm VERY happy with my current setup....normally running 12psi...sometimes hitting 15, never detonation now. I do run either 93octane with octane booster, or 100octane tho. On straight 93, I'm guessing I may get some detonation at 15psi depending on temperature.
But I must say, that 12psi and stock compression pulls extremely hard in this car and is just as safe as the factory NA setup!!
And as far as fuel system...I'm running stock injectors, and using an APEX'i S-AFC to modify the fuel curve. I do have an additional injector...but the controller for it isn't hooked up, as I have yet to get my air/fuel ratios below .95 when running.
SR
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...threadid=24570
I didn't do the headgasket, but I saw no reason to pull the motor to do it. I'm actually thinking about going with the headgasket now...so I can run some insane boost levels.
But I'm VERY happy with my current setup....normally running 12psi...sometimes hitting 15, never detonation now. I do run either 93octane with octane booster, or 100octane tho. On straight 93, I'm guessing I may get some detonation at 15psi depending on temperature.
But I must say, that 12psi and stock compression pulls extremely hard in this car and is just as safe as the factory NA setup!!
And as far as fuel system...I'm running stock injectors, and using an APEX'i S-AFC to modify the fuel curve. I do have an additional injector...but the controller for it isn't hooked up, as I have yet to get my air/fuel ratios below .95 when running.
SR
11-04-01, 04:09 AM
#30
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oil squirters are nice but not needed.....i dont know why sp takes the motor out to do a head gasket?...Toyomoto does em all the time and never removes the motor....they pull the head...throw in a gasket and go....they also drill all oil feed and return lines while the motor is in the car.......SP are good guys<and do great work> and im not critisizing them at all but it is not necessary to pull the motor to drop in a head gasket.....
i dont think the supra rev limiter is any higher than a sc300..i belive there both right at 6400?....supra might be 6700 but its minor...to get the rev limiter issue resolved you willl need a g-force or standalone.....
sc300t is running a bigger fuel pump....stock injectors and 2 additional 550 cc injectors...controled by a haltech F5...
as for the n/a motor.....i cant persoanlly attest to where stock cams run out of breathe...i wll find out soon on my car as im looking for 600rwhp on just boost with stock cams......but cmas made for our car would be nice....<Ethan whats the status on crower?>......i say go with the n/a motor..its already on the car..just need to bolt a turbo to it......you can start off with a toyomoto stage 1 and build up from there.......Jeff
i dont think the supra rev limiter is any higher than a sc300..i belive there both right at 6400?....supra might be 6700 but its minor...to get the rev limiter issue resolved you willl need a g-force or standalone.....
sc300t is running a bigger fuel pump....stock injectors and 2 additional 550 cc injectors...controled by a haltech F5...
as for the n/a motor.....i cant persoanlly attest to where stock cams run out of breathe...i wll find out soon on my car as im looking for 600rwhp on just boost with stock cams......but cmas made for our car would be nice....<Ethan whats the status on crower?>......i say go with the n/a motor..its already on the car..just need to bolt a turbo to it......you can start off with a toyomoto stage 1 and build up from there.......Jeff