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SC400 Turbo Manifolds that keep the AC and PS?
#46
Panache and sizzle-- Porsche has got--
SC's are deceptively smooth-- people can't tell if they're fast or not by looking, and there's so few of them it's prob. not common knowledge on their power output--
SC's seem to be built to fly down the interstate and rape anything there, they just need a little boost to do it-- That's where these headers come in--
SC's are deceptively smooth-- people can't tell if they're fast or not by looking, and there's so few of them it's prob. not common knowledge on their power output--
SC's seem to be built to fly down the interstate and rape anything there, they just need a little boost to do it-- That's where these headers come in--
#47
Also as a caveat, from what Kevin@MVP has told me the group buy will be going up tomorrow at the $2500 level
Eric
#48
Panache and sizzle-- Porsche has got--
SC's are deceptively smooth-- people can't tell if they're fast or not by looking, and there's so few of them it's prob. not common knowledge on their power output--
SC's seem to be built to fly down the interstate and rape anything there, they just need a little boost to do it-- That's where these headers come in--
SC's are deceptively smooth-- people can't tell if they're fast or not by looking, and there's so few of them it's prob. not common knowledge on their power output--
SC's seem to be built to fly down the interstate and rape anything there, they just need a little boost to do it-- That's where these headers come in--
For reference, here's the link to the group buy. It's only going on for 4 weeks, so let's get these rolling.
http://sr1.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282931
Eric
#49
Supraforums:
I do like the flanges. I preffer mild flanges greatly on turbo manifolds, but it's a personal prefferance, not an issue of right/wrong. I like you flanges.
Those manifolds typically would run roughly $600 a pop for a descently good home fabricator to make. Which there are dozens, hundreds floating around the net. So that'd be the $1200 range, give or a take afew hundred. Now that that's a blind guess, and I don't like blind. So let's break it down!
4x 1.5" 16-gauge 180* mandrel bends with legs = $80usd
6' 1/5" 16-gauge staight pipe = $50usd
Not sure what size V-band you're using but for example purposes:
2x 2.5" v-band kit $110usd
Custom waterjet/CNC milled flanges typicall run from free to $100 a pop. I'll spot ya & say $100 a pop. Flanges = $200
We're up to $440usd. In raw materials for both manifolds.
Any welder/fabricator worth knows that raw material cost x3 is *generally* going to be very,very close to the quoted price. $440usd x3 = $1320.
So $1320usd worth of work suddenly equals $2500usd how?
At any rate. Your product does not seem to be bad. But at the price you are listing them at. My opinion of them changes from, "I'm glad someone is finally selling them", to "wow those manif's are POS's for the money, and are meant to separate people from their money just for monitary gain".
ps, I am not being insultive, simply stating what I think of them & should be obvious to anyone else that dabbles in any kind of exhaust / manifold / turbo manifold creation. The price / product ratio is horrible. Ya gotta recoupe some cost of down-time on the guy's car, but I honestly don't see why the price would, for any reason, everbe more than $1750usd shipped to anywhere in North America.
- Take the header wrap off.
- That particular log style of manifold is not the best design possible in a turbo manifold. It's the cheap & quick way. For much less money, someone could have modified the OEM manifold to accomplish the same thing. Food for thought...
- THAT IS NOT "thick wall pipe". It looks like typical t304 16-gauge. When you build a header & claim you're using thick wall... That means you've broke out the Schedule-40. 16-gauge = .08", schedule 10 = .106", schedule 40 = .145"
- The amount of material cost, work done VS the price is completely outrageous. The price is simply rediculous for those turbo manifolds
I do like the flanges. I preffer mild flanges greatly on turbo manifolds, but it's a personal prefferance, not an issue of right/wrong. I like you flanges.
Those manifolds typically would run roughly $600 a pop for a descently good home fabricator to make. Which there are dozens, hundreds floating around the net. So that'd be the $1200 range, give or a take afew hundred. Now that that's a blind guess, and I don't like blind. So let's break it down!
4x 1.5" 16-gauge 180* mandrel bends with legs = $80usd
6' 1/5" 16-gauge staight pipe = $50usd
Not sure what size V-band you're using but for example purposes:
2x 2.5" v-band kit $110usd
Custom waterjet/CNC milled flanges typicall run from free to $100 a pop. I'll spot ya & say $100 a pop. Flanges = $200
We're up to $440usd. In raw materials for both manifolds.
Any welder/fabricator worth knows that raw material cost x3 is *generally* going to be very,very close to the quoted price. $440usd x3 = $1320.
So $1320usd worth of work suddenly equals $2500usd how?
At any rate. Your product does not seem to be bad. But at the price you are listing them at. My opinion of them changes from, "I'm glad someone is finally selling them", to "wow those manif's are POS's for the money, and are meant to separate people from their money just for monitary gain".
ps, I am not being insultive, simply stating what I think of them & should be obvious to anyone else that dabbles in any kind of exhaust / manifold / turbo manifold creation. The price / product ratio is horrible. Ya gotta recoupe some cost of down-time on the guy's car, but I honestly don't see why the price would, for any reason, everbe more than $1750usd shipped to anywhere in North America.
#51
My reasoning for the comments on the EK's headers only being $1000, and they're just turned in the opposite direction, yet have much more equal length runners-
I think LS400 manifolds turned backwards with some very mild modification/fabrication have a larger primary and would flow better if done properly-- And MIGHT cost you $450 after modding--
I think LS400 manifolds turned backwards with some very mild modification/fabrication have a larger primary and would flow better if done properly-- And MIGHT cost you $450 after modding--
#52
Supraforums:
- Take the header wrap off.
- That particular log style of manifold is not the best design possible in a turbo manifold. It's the cheap & quick way. For much less money, someone could have modified the OEM manifold to accomplish the same thing. Food for thought...
- [*]
- [*]
Header wrap is stupid. It's destructive, and DOES NOT save money VS cermaic coatings when building & selling a product over time. I would seriously suggest buying youself a powder coating gun, and buying, or making an oven. Powder is much cheaper than wrap. It also won't retain moisture & cause your stainless to rust.
Those manifolds typically would run roughly $600 a pop for a descently good home fabricator to make. Which there are dozens, hundreds floating around the net. So that'd be the $1200 range, give or a take afew hundred. Now that that's a blind guess, and I don't like blind. So let's break it down!
4x 1.5" 16-gauge 180* mandrel bends with legs = $80usd
6' 1/5" 16-gauge staight pipe = $50usd
Not sure what size V-band you're using but for example purposes:
2x 2.5" v-band kit $110usd
Custom waterjet/CNC milled flanges typicall run from free to $100 a pop. I'll spot ya & say $100 a pop. Flanges = $200
We're up to $440usd. In raw materials for both manifolds.
Any welder/fabricator worth knows that raw material cost x3 is *generally* going to be very,very close to the quoted price. $440usd x3 = $1320.
So $1320usd worth of work suddenly equals $2500usd how?
4x 1.5" 16-gauge 180* mandrel bends with legs = $80usd
6' 1/5" 16-gauge staight pipe = $50usd
Not sure what size V-band you're using but for example purposes:
2x 2.5" v-band kit $110usd
Custom waterjet/CNC milled flanges typicall run from free to $100 a pop. I'll spot ya & say $100 a pop. Flanges = $200
We're up to $440usd. In raw materials for both manifolds.
Any welder/fabricator worth knows that raw material cost x3 is *generally* going to be very,very close to the quoted price. $440usd x3 = $1320.
So $1320usd worth of work suddenly equals $2500usd how?
At any rate. Your product does not seem to be bad. But at the price you are listing them at. My opinion of them changes from, "I'm glad someone is finally selling them", to "wow those manif's are POS's for the money, and are meant to separate people from their money just for monitary gain".
ps, I am not being insultive, simply stating what I think of them & should be obvious to anyone else that dabbles in any kind of exhaust / manifold / turbo manifold creation. The price / product ratio is horrible. Ya gotta recoupe some cost of down-time on the guy's car, but I honestly don't see why the price would, for any reason, everbe more than $1750usd shipped to anywhere in North America.
Eric
#53
My reasoning for the comments on the EK's headers only being $1000, and they're just turned in the opposite direction, yet have much more equal length runners-
I think LS400 manifolds turned backwards with some very mild modification/fabrication have a larger primary and would flow better if done properly-- And MIGHT cost you $450 after modding--
I think LS400 manifolds turned backwards with some very mild modification/fabrication have a larger primary and would flow better if done properly-- And MIGHT cost you $450 after modding--
Eric
#54
I'm sure it's a pain to make look beautiful, but I'm willing to bet you can do it with great results for those that don't mind having a homebrew setup--
For those that want a show quality setup, they'll end up buying yours or building some like them-
For those that want a show quality setup, they'll end up buying yours or building some like them-
#55
Thanks again,
Eric
#56
Dude (Phoenix):
You may know a lot more about manifold building than me, but your statements are, in some cases, erroneous, and in others, quite insulting...
What do you mean take the stock manifolds and turn them around???They will not even fit. Did you ever even take the time to measure the space available between the engine and the frame rails of the SC? Not only will they not fit, but the design on the stock mani's are at best horribly restrictive. For you to compare these manifolds to the stockers is insulting and misleading. To all the guys on this forum who do not have the level of experience and knowledge to know this, you are being irresponsible to post up such a ludicrous statement as you have. Let me make it clear. The stock manifolds cannot be reversed and used to build a turbo system on the SC. Just as a low mount turbo system on the SC is not possible unless you actually modify and reshape part of the floor board of the car.
I would think that you would also know that when anyone takes on a stock car to turbo it, or modify it, compromises have to be engineered into the equation. We are not talking about building a car from scratch where we are building the frame and all...We are talking about having to deal with the built in limitations that were built inot the car from the factory. The factory also does not build their cars to allow fro aftermarket modifications.
So, if you disagree with Erics price for the manifolds, you have the right to state that, and just state that. But stop dissing a fantastic piece of workmanship, which these headers are...And I want to state that I do not make a dime off the sale of these headers....BTW, Eric has the right to charge whatever he wants to for the headers....It's up to the buyer if he wants them.
I just want accurate statements made here.
Until Frank designed and made these headers, there was not a viable option for anybody to TT their SC400.
Ryan
You may know a lot more about manifold building than me, but your statements are, in some cases, erroneous, and in others, quite insulting...
What do you mean take the stock manifolds and turn them around???They will not even fit. Did you ever even take the time to measure the space available between the engine and the frame rails of the SC? Not only will they not fit, but the design on the stock mani's are at best horribly restrictive. For you to compare these manifolds to the stockers is insulting and misleading. To all the guys on this forum who do not have the level of experience and knowledge to know this, you are being irresponsible to post up such a ludicrous statement as you have. Let me make it clear. The stock manifolds cannot be reversed and used to build a turbo system on the SC. Just as a low mount turbo system on the SC is not possible unless you actually modify and reshape part of the floor board of the car.
I would think that you would also know that when anyone takes on a stock car to turbo it, or modify it, compromises have to be engineered into the equation. We are not talking about building a car from scratch where we are building the frame and all...We are talking about having to deal with the built in limitations that were built inot the car from the factory. The factory also does not build their cars to allow fro aftermarket modifications.
So, if you disagree with Erics price for the manifolds, you have the right to state that, and just state that. But stop dissing a fantastic piece of workmanship, which these headers are...And I want to state that I do not make a dime off the sale of these headers....BTW, Eric has the right to charge whatever he wants to for the headers....It's up to the buyer if he wants them.
I just want accurate statements made here.
Until Frank designed and made these headers, there was not a viable option for anybody to TT their SC400.
Ryan
Supraforums:
I do like the flanges. I preffer mild flanges greatly on turbo manifolds, but it's a personal prefferance, not an issue of right/wrong. I like you flanges.
Those manifolds typically would run roughly $600 a pop for a descently good home fabricator to make. Which there are dozens, hundreds floating around the net. So that'd be the $1200 range, give or a take afew hundred. Now that that's a blind guess, and I don't like blind. So let's break it down!
4x 1.5" 16-gauge 180* mandrel bends with legs = $80usd
6' 1/5" 16-gauge staight pipe = $50usd
Not sure what size V-band you're using but for example purposes:
2x 2.5" v-band kit $110usd
Custom waterjet/CNC milled flanges typicall run from free to $100 a pop. I'll spot ya & say $100 a pop. Flanges = $200
We're up to $440usd. In raw materials for both manifolds.
Any welder/fabricator worth knows that raw material cost x3 is *generally* going to be very,very close to the quoted price. $440usd x3 = $1320.
So $1320usd worth of work suddenly equals $2500usd how?
At any rate. Your product does not seem to be bad. But at the price you are listing them at. My opinion of them changes from, "I'm glad someone is finally selling them", to "wow those manif's are POS's for the money, and are meant to separate people from their money just for monitary gain".
ps, I am not being insultive, simply stating what I think of them & should be obvious to anyone else that dabbles in any kind of exhaust / manifold / turbo manifold creation. The price / product ratio is horrible. Ya gotta recoupe some cost of down-time on the guy's car, but I honestly don't see why the price would, for any reason, everbe more than $1750usd shipped to anywhere in North America.
- Take the header wrap off.
- That particular log style of manifold is not the best design possible in a turbo manifold. It's the cheap & quick way. For much less money, someone could have modified the OEM manifold to accomplish the same thing. Food for thought...
- THAT IS NOT "thick wall pipe". It looks like typical t304 16-gauge. When you build a header & claim you're using thick wall... That means you've broke out the Schedule-40. 16-gauge = .08", schedule 10 = .106", schedule 40 = .145"
- The amount of material cost, work done VS the price is completely outrageous. The price is simply rediculous for those turbo manifolds
I do like the flanges. I preffer mild flanges greatly on turbo manifolds, but it's a personal prefferance, not an issue of right/wrong. I like you flanges.
Those manifolds typically would run roughly $600 a pop for a descently good home fabricator to make. Which there are dozens, hundreds floating around the net. So that'd be the $1200 range, give or a take afew hundred. Now that that's a blind guess, and I don't like blind. So let's break it down!
4x 1.5" 16-gauge 180* mandrel bends with legs = $80usd
6' 1/5" 16-gauge staight pipe = $50usd
Not sure what size V-band you're using but for example purposes:
2x 2.5" v-band kit $110usd
Custom waterjet/CNC milled flanges typicall run from free to $100 a pop. I'll spot ya & say $100 a pop. Flanges = $200
We're up to $440usd. In raw materials for both manifolds.
Any welder/fabricator worth knows that raw material cost x3 is *generally* going to be very,very close to the quoted price. $440usd x3 = $1320.
So $1320usd worth of work suddenly equals $2500usd how?
At any rate. Your product does not seem to be bad. But at the price you are listing them at. My opinion of them changes from, "I'm glad someone is finally selling them", to "wow those manif's are POS's for the money, and are meant to separate people from their money just for monitary gain".
ps, I am not being insultive, simply stating what I think of them & should be obvious to anyone else that dabbles in any kind of exhaust / manifold / turbo manifold creation. The price / product ratio is horrible. Ya gotta recoupe some cost of down-time on the guy's car, but I honestly don't see why the price would, for any reason, everbe more than $1750usd shipped to anywhere in North America.
Last edited by SC400TT; 05-20-07 at 12:10 PM.
#58
Here are some pics for you to "Eyeball"
Stock Headers:
New headers:
Even by eyeballing, you can see the huge difference betwen the merges...
Ryan
#59
Originally Posted by c0wboy
If you don't like the price, or can't afford the price, then keep on moving sir. I'm not in any way forcing anyone to buy these, so if it's a bit out of the range of folks looking to go FI, the only thing I can suggest to save a bit more money or to call me directly so that possibly we can work something out.
Originally Posted by MJHSC400
I'm willing to bet you can do it with great results for those that don't mind having a homebrew setup
Originally Posted by SC400TT
What do you mean take the stock manifolds and turn them around???They will not even fit. Did you ever even take the time to measure the space available between the engine and the frame rails of the SC?
Having had the chance to talk with Eric many times via PM, I am confident that he is only out for the best in the Lexus/Toyota V8 community. In no way is he trying to rip off anyone. This product might as well be custom.
Unfortunately for most (me included), while going FI would be amazing, it would be too expensive:
- stock motor and tranny can only hold ~400whp safely before rebuild
- v160 swap is upwards of $5k cover to cover for a tranny to handle the power
- building up the motor with forged insternals is $2k+ just for pistons and rods as you would need eight of each
- manifolds cost $2500
- two nice turbos cost $2500
- fuel management, intercooler, exhaust, BOV, wastegate, etc, etc is thousands.
No one ever said modifying a V8 was cheap. This V8 is no exception since it was not built to hold extreme power.
For cheap power, the JZ engine are still the way to go. But, for something truly unique and special with a power band from 1500-6500, the UZ engines are worth the price...if you are willing and able to fork over the dough.
#60
Thanks Blizzy,
Again, just to be clear, we're offering the ONLY readily available option for twin/single turbo systems for the SC400. These manifolds are as one off as they come, and are very labor intensive. We are even offering a 1 year warrantee against cracking. These are aimed towards the DIY crowd that can handle the rest of the kit. For a full kit, PM me and I'm sure we can work something out.
In my opinion, there's always some armchair quarterbacks out there, and those folks are neither here nor there. The Lexus V8 crowd has been asking for these manifolds for years, and now there here. It's time to move on them and get the 1uz out of the mud performance wise.
Eric
Again, just to be clear, we're offering the ONLY readily available option for twin/single turbo systems for the SC400. These manifolds are as one off as they come, and are very labor intensive. We are even offering a 1 year warrantee against cracking. These are aimed towards the DIY crowd that can handle the rest of the kit. For a full kit, PM me and I'm sure we can work something out.
In my opinion, there's always some armchair quarterbacks out there, and those folks are neither here nor there. The Lexus V8 crowd has been asking for these manifolds for years, and now there here. It's time to move on them and get the 1uz out of the mud performance wise.
Eric