Th400 vs Built Auto
06-17-07, 02:44 PM
#17
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Yes sir i am.
My goal is a Na-T single turbo around 600 hp and all i want is a tough auto tranny to handle the beautiful power for drag and daily driving.
My goal is a Na-T single turbo around 600 hp and all i want is a tough auto tranny to handle the beautiful power for drag and daily driving.
Last edited by YouLose; 06-17-07 at 02:54 PM.
06-17-07, 03:05 PM
#18
Hey Direct, no dis intended to you or anyone commenting in agreement with you, but I gotta disagree with your statements. Here is why:
I checked with some of the companies that build the A340 series 4 speed trannies, among them are BL and IPT. Both have good impressions of them up to a certain HP. 850 was probably max. Beyond that, they were uncomfortable with this tranny. That is a lot of HP for anybody. I wonder how many guys on this forum are pushing more than 400 WHP? Really, how many? I bet that it is very low compared to the ones that are running stock. Now how many are dreaming and talking about pushing more than 500 WHP? Tons....So, for those that really intend to go big, then spend that $10k on the TH400 or the V160 manual, and call it a day. For the rest, the built Toyota should do just fine...I spoke to more than one person who has had the BL built A340 on their street car which was putting out over 600 WHP, and they had zero problems over several years.
So, again, what is the reality of what the buyer is really going to do regularly, with his car?
My 2 cents...
Ryan
- First and most important is to determine how the person is going to generally drive the car.
- Next is to determine how much power the person is going to "realistically" put down.
- Then, the buyer should contact BL, SP, and any other company that builds autos for their purpose, and ask them for all the details...Mechanically, technically, relaibility, and cost to purchase as well as to install.
- References should be provided and called that can give true "On the road" experience to determine reality from hearsay.
- Lastly, determine what best fits into the buyers budget.
I checked with some of the companies that build the A340 series 4 speed trannies, among them are BL and IPT. Both have good impressions of them up to a certain HP. 850 was probably max. Beyond that, they were uncomfortable with this tranny. That is a lot of HP for anybody. I wonder how many guys on this forum are pushing more than 400 WHP? Really, how many? I bet that it is very low compared to the ones that are running stock. Now how many are dreaming and talking about pushing more than 500 WHP? Tons....So, for those that really intend to go big, then spend that $10k on the TH400 or the V160 manual, and call it a day. For the rest, the built Toyota should do just fine...I spoke to more than one person who has had the BL built A340 on their street car which was putting out over 600 WHP, and they had zero problems over several years.
So, again, what is the reality of what the buyer is really going to do regularly, with his car?
My 2 cents...
Ryan
You guys don't know what you're talking about. One way or another a built Toyota transmission will go. It's like a time bomb. Boostlogic or not.
Go with TH400 or it's modern 4 speed version. Sound Performance is selling a new transmission kit. It's little pricey but works awesome. It's TH400's modern version. It's 100% automatic 4 speed and is controlled by AEM EMS.
Go with TH400 or it's modern 4 speed version. Sound Performance is selling a new transmission kit. It's little pricey but works awesome. It's TH400's modern version. It's 100% automatic 4 speed and is controlled by AEM EMS.
Last edited by SC400TT; 06-17-07 at 03:10 PM.
06-17-07, 03:26 PM
#19
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SC400TT, i cannot thank you enough.
The information you gave me was what i want, a comparison between a Th400 and a built auto tranny thank you very much. Very helpful information that you posted.
The information you gave me was what i want, a comparison between a Th400 and a built auto tranny thank you very much. Very helpful information that you posted.
06-17-07, 04:58 PM
#20
Chicago Lexus Club Moderator
Hey Direct, no dis intended to you or anyone commenting in agreement with you, but I gotta disagree with your statements. Here is why:
I checked with some of the companies that build the A340 series 4 speed trannies, among them are BL and IPT. Both have good impressions of them up to a certain HP. 850 was probably max. Beyond that, they were uncomfortable with this tranny. That is a lot of HP for anybody. I wonder how many guys on this forum are pushing more than 400 WHP? Really, how many? I bet that it is very low compared to the ones that are running stock. Now how many are dreaming and talking about pushing more than 500 WHP? Tons....So, for those that really intend to go big, then spend that $10k on the TH400 or the V160 manual, and call it a day. For the rest, the built Toyota should do just fine...I spoke to more than one person who has had the BL built A340 on their street car which was putting out over 600 WHP, and they had zero problems over several years.
So, again, what is the reality of what the buyer is really going to do regularly, with his car?
My 2 cents...
Ryan
- First and most important is to determine how the person is going to generally drive the car.
- Next is to determine how much power the person is going to "realistically" put down.
- Then, the buyer should contact BL, SP, and any other company that builds autos for their purpose, and ask them for all the details...Mechanically, technically, relaibility, and cost to purchase as well as to install.
- References should be provided and called that can give true "On the road" experience to determine reality from hearsay.
- Lastly, determine what best fits into the buyers budget.
I checked with some of the companies that build the A340 series 4 speed trannies, among them are BL and IPT. Both have good impressions of them up to a certain HP. 850 was probably max. Beyond that, they were uncomfortable with this tranny. That is a lot of HP for anybody. I wonder how many guys on this forum are pushing more than 400 WHP? Really, how many? I bet that it is very low compared to the ones that are running stock. Now how many are dreaming and talking about pushing more than 500 WHP? Tons....So, for those that really intend to go big, then spend that $10k on the TH400 or the V160 manual, and call it a day. For the rest, the built Toyota should do just fine...I spoke to more than one person who has had the BL built A340 on their street car which was putting out over 600 WHP, and they had zero problems over several years.
So, again, what is the reality of what the buyer is really going to do regularly, with his car?
My 2 cents...
Ryan
I understand you contribute a lot here and you have a following but I doubt your experience with this manner. You should really listen from people's experience. Call Chris Mantis or Bob and ask them. Even aliga is backing me up.
The reason why people buy built transmissions is so they hold the power while they beat on them. For example: you want to launch the car from the line by torque breaking. That is a big no no. That 1 2 shift is very dangerous for the transmission. The built transmissions also run little hotter so that rules out driving in traffic. The torque converter is also another reason why they fail. The plates brake up and clouge the lines and metalic filter. I can go on.
TH400 is fairly cheap:
http://www.spracingonline.com/defaul...ail&prod_id=21
Notice that Sound Performance doesn't mention their built A340 transmissions anymore. There is a reason for that. These transmissions also have no value.
Try selling a used one (built or not). I thought it was by now common knowledge that they don't last.
06-17-07, 06:15 PM
#22
I know there is a SF guy trying to sell his TH400 kit (found it: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=425262). For the last tranny kit you will ever need, that is not a bad price.
06-17-07, 07:26 PM
#24
Chicago Lexus Club Moderator
It's pretty simple. If you want a time bomb get a stock or built A340. If you want to end that problem get a TH400 or 4L80E or 6 speed getrag.
06-17-07, 07:27 PM
#25
Chicago Lexus Club Moderator
Hey Direct, no dis intended to you or anyone commenting in agreement with you, but I gotta disagree with your statements. Here is why:
I checked with some of the companies that build the A340 series 4 speed trannies, among them are BL and IPT. Both have good impressions of them up to a certain HP. 850 was probably max. Beyond that, they were uncomfortable with this tranny. That is a lot of HP for anybody. I wonder how many guys on this forum are pushing more than 400 WHP? Really, how many? I bet that it is very low compared to the ones that are running stock. Now how many are dreaming and talking about pushing more than 500 WHP? Tons....So, for those that really intend to go big, then spend that $10k on the TH400 or the V160 manual, and call it a day. For the rest, the built Toyota should do just fine...I spoke to more than one person who has had the BL built A340 on their street car which was putting out over 600 WHP, and they had zero problems over several years.
So, again, what is the reality of what the buyer is really going to do regularly, with his car?
My 2 cents...
Ryan
- First and most important is to determine how the person is going to generally drive the car.
- Next is to determine how much power the person is going to "realistically" put down.
- Then, the buyer should contact BL, SP, and any other company that builds autos for their purpose, and ask them for all the details...Mechanically, technically, relaibility, and cost to purchase as well as to install.
- References should be provided and called that can give true "On the road" experience to determine reality from hearsay.
- Lastly, determine what best fits into the buyers budget.
I checked with some of the companies that build the A340 series 4 speed trannies, among them are BL and IPT. Both have good impressions of them up to a certain HP. 850 was probably max. Beyond that, they were uncomfortable with this tranny. That is a lot of HP for anybody. I wonder how many guys on this forum are pushing more than 400 WHP? Really, how many? I bet that it is very low compared to the ones that are running stock. Now how many are dreaming and talking about pushing more than 500 WHP? Tons....So, for those that really intend to go big, then spend that $10k on the TH400 or the V160 manual, and call it a day. For the rest, the built Toyota should do just fine...I spoke to more than one person who has had the BL built A340 on their street car which was putting out over 600 WHP, and they had zero problems over several years.
So, again, what is the reality of what the buyer is really going to do regularly, with his car?
My 2 cents...
Ryan
06-17-07, 07:55 PM
#26
Ryan,
I understand you contribute a lot here and you have a following but I doubt your experience with this manner. You should really listen from people's experience. Call Chris Mantis or Bob and ask them. Even aliga is backing me up.
Direct, thanks...and I will agree that I have not a lot of experience with a built Toyota tranny, and that I have decided to rely on the experience of others. I do listen. I know Chris Mantes quite well, in fact he and I have had several talks about this very subject. The built Toyota trans Chrisman and I discussed was built by Chris, not BL. Chris also used the stock TQ converter, and I do not beleive he did much to it. He also said that Bob constantly beat on the car, and the trans, and was constantly torque braking. Again, how one drives the car....I have a V160 as well, just in case I find mine does not hold up. I have nothing against Chris, or Bob, but I know that Bob beat hard on the car...
The reason why people buy built transmissions is so they hold the power while they beat on them. For example: you want to launch the car from the line by torque breaking. That is a big no no. That 1 2 shift is very dangerous for the transmission. The built transmissions also run little hotter so that rules out driving in traffic. The torque converter is also another reason why they fail. The plates brake up and clouge the lines and metalic filter. I can go on.
Interesting, look at your own words above..."Beat on them", "Torque braking". The heat you mention, that is why it is necessary to add a tranny cooler to handle the added heat. The one from BL includes the Dragon TQ converter, which is supposed to be the best one on the market. I have not heard of problems and failures with these.
TH400 is fairly cheap:
http://www.spracingonline.com/defaul...ail&prod_id=21
Used TH400's are cheap, but not when you buy a built one....
Notice that Sound Performance doesn't mention their built A340 transmissions anymore. There is a reason for that. These transmissions also have no value.
Try selling a used one (built or not). I thought it was by now common knowledge that they don't last.
I understand you contribute a lot here and you have a following but I doubt your experience with this manner. You should really listen from people's experience. Call Chris Mantis or Bob and ask them. Even aliga is backing me up.
Direct, thanks...and I will agree that I have not a lot of experience with a built Toyota tranny, and that I have decided to rely on the experience of others. I do listen. I know Chris Mantes quite well, in fact he and I have had several talks about this very subject. The built Toyota trans Chrisman and I discussed was built by Chris, not BL. Chris also used the stock TQ converter, and I do not beleive he did much to it. He also said that Bob constantly beat on the car, and the trans, and was constantly torque braking. Again, how one drives the car....I have a V160 as well, just in case I find mine does not hold up. I have nothing against Chris, or Bob, but I know that Bob beat hard on the car...
The reason why people buy built transmissions is so they hold the power while they beat on them. For example: you want to launch the car from the line by torque breaking. That is a big no no. That 1 2 shift is very dangerous for the transmission. The built transmissions also run little hotter so that rules out driving in traffic. The torque converter is also another reason why they fail. The plates brake up and clouge the lines and metalic filter. I can go on.
Interesting, look at your own words above..."Beat on them", "Torque braking". The heat you mention, that is why it is necessary to add a tranny cooler to handle the added heat. The one from BL includes the Dragon TQ converter, which is supposed to be the best one on the market. I have not heard of problems and failures with these.
TH400 is fairly cheap:
http://www.spracingonline.com/defaul...ail&prod_id=21
Used TH400's are cheap, but not when you buy a built one....
Notice that Sound Performance doesn't mention their built A340 transmissions anymore. There is a reason for that. These transmissions also have no value.
Try selling a used one (built or not). I thought it was by now common knowledge that they don't last.
I will most certainly let you guys know the truth of my experiences with my BL tranny. Like I said, I have a V160 in the background just in case...
Ryan
06-17-07, 08:18 PM
#27
Chicago Lexus Club Moderator
I am not stating that You lose should or should not buy a built Toyota Tranny...I am stating that it really depends on what he wants, how he drives, his budget, etc. The SP Built tranny is $7499 befors installing, correct? Mod the car to fit it, install it and I am not sure if the ECU is included in that. Even at $7499, that is a lot of dough. 400 HP is not that much HP. Bob was also up to 512 WHP, at 17 lbs of boost, significantly more than 400. Everything has to be engineered when modding a car, and compromises are a part of that.
I will most certainly let you guys know the truth of my experiences with my BL tranny. Like I said, I have a V160 in the background just in case...
Ryan
I will most certainly let you guys know the truth of my experiences with my BL tranny. Like I said, I have a V160 in the background just in case...
Ryan
Also, to give you some more information. Pink dragon or not... it will not last. One of the big reasons why these transmissions fail is because of the re-stalled torque converter. They are pretty small pressure plates shred especially when you're slowing down which is why most people who know their stuff get non-lockup torque converter. Don't believe everything you read on these websites. The reality is different.
Looking at your past posts seems to be like you're a hard person to convince once you sent your mind on it. I wish you luck with the transmission.
06-17-07, 08:58 PM
#28
I just read that this is meant to be a daily driver. Wouldn't a TH400 be a disaster as a daily driver tranny? Clearly the TH400 is the more durable option: much more likely to be the last tranny he ever needs to buy. But, is a three speed hydromatic meant for daily driving? What if you ever had to cruise on the highway for any distance or time? What about just driving stoplight to stoplight in a modest fashion?
I know this is an automatic debate, but I would think this situation just screams Getrag: reliable, durable, capable, great while cruising on the HWY with six gears, and well street mannered with a Lexus 3.2 rear or a Supra 3.0 rear.
I know this is an automatic debate, but I would think this situation just screams Getrag: reliable, durable, capable, great while cruising on the HWY with six gears, and well street mannered with a Lexus 3.2 rear or a Supra 3.0 rear.
06-17-07, 09:02 PM
#29
Hey Direct, I am glad we are having this exchange. It will mean all will learn, hopefully. I admitted that I am not experienced with the Built Toyota Tranny, right in my last post, so no need to beat on that one again and again. 
I just went to SP racings site, and they have a sale right now for $3500 to $5000 depending upon which stage one selects. There are no details that I saw as far as if there is an adaptor plate for the 1UZ, it says electronics, but does this work with the 1UZ? I saw no adaptor for the drive shaft, I assume that the DS will not mate up to the trans mission without some kind of modification. That definitely did not seem to include installation, and I believe it has been established that the stock tunnel is not large enough to handle the tranny. Just a few issues that one would need to carefully research before they decided to go forward with a SP TH400...
Direct, I have respect for what you are stating, just that you make several assumptions...For example, on my TT SC400, Untuned, with the stock Toyota Tranny and TQ converter ( I did have a MVP Stage 1 Shift Kit), I never Torque braked, and was able to quickly get off the line and smoke my tires before I shifted to second gear. I wonder what will happen when I have my built engine in and it is tuned? So why do I need to torque brake when taking off the line? Shifting the car manually with the auto is hardly even practical due to how quickly the car got to redline, so it is better to let it shift itself, as it knows what to do and when.
I really do not know what to expect..., I do know I will find out. Like I said, I have a V160 in the background, waiting for me just in case the Toyota cannot handle it.
Peace...
Ryan
I just went to SP racings site, and they have a sale right now for $3500 to $5000 depending upon which stage one selects. There are no details that I saw as far as if there is an adaptor plate for the 1UZ, it says electronics, but does this work with the 1UZ? I saw no adaptor for the drive shaft, I assume that the DS will not mate up to the trans mission without some kind of modification. That definitely did not seem to include installation, and I believe it has been established that the stock tunnel is not large enough to handle the tranny. Just a few issues that one would need to carefully research before they decided to go forward with a SP TH400... Direct, I have respect for what you are stating, just that you make several assumptions...For example, on my TT SC400, Untuned, with the stock Toyota Tranny and TQ converter ( I did have a MVP Stage 1 Shift Kit), I never Torque braked, and was able to quickly get off the line and smoke my tires before I shifted to second gear. I wonder what will happen when I have my built engine in and it is tuned? So why do I need to torque brake when taking off the line? Shifting the car manually with the auto is hardly even practical due to how quickly the car got to redline, so it is better to let it shift itself, as it knows what to do and when. I really do not know what to expect..., I do know I will find out. Like I said, I have a V160 in the background, waiting for me just in case the Toyota cannot handle it.
Peace...
Ryan
Again, you are not talking from experience. I had an awesome flexilite cooler with fans on at all times and transmission was still running hot. I know Chris personally pretty well. SP built A340 is not 8000 dollars. It's more like below 2000 dollars. Again, it's just a matter of time before yours blows. Beating on it is racing. Why would you have a 400 rwhp motor and not race it? The transmission is also bad when driven in traffic. Either way it will not last.
Also, to give you some more information. Pink dragon or not... it will not last. One of the big reasons why these transmissions fail is because of the re-stalled torque converter. They are pretty small pressure plates shred especially when you're slowing down which is why most people who know their stuff get non-lockup torque converter. Don't believe everything you read on these websites. The reality is different.
Looking at your past posts seems to be like you're a hard person to convince once you sent your mind on it. I wish you luck with the transmission.
Also, to give you some more information. Pink dragon or not... it will not last. One of the big reasons why these transmissions fail is because of the re-stalled torque converter. They are pretty small pressure plates shred especially when you're slowing down which is why most people who know their stuff get non-lockup torque converter. Don't believe everything you read on these websites. The reality is different.
Looking at your past posts seems to be like you're a hard person to convince once you sent your mind on it. I wish you luck with the transmission.
06-17-07, 09:08 PM
#30
Chicago Lexus Club Moderator
I just read that this is meant to be a daily driver. Wouldn't a TH400 be a disaster as a daily driver tranny? Clearly the TH400 is the more durable option: much more likely to be the last tranny he ever needs to buy. But, is a three speed hydromatic meant for daily driving? What if you ever had to cruise on the highway for any distance or time? What about just driving stoplight to stoplight in a modest fashion?
I know this is an automatic debate, but I would think this situation just screams Getrag: reliable, durable, capable, great while cruising on the HWY with six gears, and well street mannered with a Lexus 3.2 rear or a Supra 3.0 rear.
I know this is an automatic debate, but I would think this situation just screams Getrag: reliable, durable, capable, great while cruising on the HWY with six gears, and well street mannered with a Lexus 3.2 rear or a Supra 3.0 rear.