The start of some V8 madness
08-09-07, 07:48 PM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sideways on the Yellow Brick Road! < Thats KS!
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Mark,
If you need some custom machine work to make the bracket fit let me know. I have a Bridgeport Mill and a Warner Swasey #5 turret lathe in my shop so I might be able to help.
If you need some custom machine work to make the bracket fit let me know. I have a Bridgeport Mill and a Warner Swasey #5 turret lathe in my shop so I might be able to help.
08-09-07, 09:46 PM
#47
-----------
For everyone's reference:
Since I will be having the 4.27 Gears and Torsen LSD installed by the end of the weekend, I took the car out for some basline test figures.
I warmed the car up and took it out on some empty country highways for testing. I used the video function on a digital camera as my stopwatch, trimming the videos appropriately with a video editor to achieve accurate times once I got back home.
I ran three trials of 0-60mph acceleration...
Trial 1: 7.07s
Trial 2: 6.55s
Trial 3: 6.73s
I also ran three trials of 45-65mph passing speed...
Trail 1: 3.33s
Trail 2: 3.77s
Trail 3: 3.60s
My baseline averages are 6.78s for 0-60 and 3.57s for 45-65.
Relevant modifications include a BFI w/newer OEM air filter, fresh Mobil 1 5w30 oil, Supra TT wheels with 285/245 tires. I have the 260hp variant of the 1UZ with 69k miles on the clock.
Compared to stock, the wide rear tires help me launch hard with a little brake boost off the line. However, the larger wheels and heavier tires hold me back a little 45-65 as compared to stock 16's with 225 tires.
The 285 rears are 26.1" in diameter which throws of the speedo off about 1.05%, but I am neglecting this and reading the speedo as fact. When the 4.27 gears are installed, I will thusly factor only gear ratio alteration from the diff swap itself. This should make calculations easy.
I hope to run three trials for each of these two tests every significant step of the way. This should supply a good frame of reference for the effectiveness of each modification.
08-10-07, 07:43 PM
#48
I just had a nice chat with a fellow Club Lexus member on the phone. He got me motivated to continue with the concept of the R154 swap.
My plan is to have the car ready to race when the weather breaks in the spring. I am going to investigate shifter relocation options with the JZA70 R154 transmission in the event that I do not find a JZZ30 or JZX90/100 R154 before, say, January.
I know Boost Logic has a shifter relocation assembly that they market. This may be the route I take. I am going to inquire with them. Although this would virtually eliminate the possibility of a short shifter, it would give my a 5 spd s/c V8 in a Lexus. Ultimately, this is what I want more than anything.
I realize that I am thinking out loud on this thread...
My SC300 diff has been deconstructed. I will hope to get the LSD dropped in tomorrow. I will painstakingly check the runouts, alignments, and torque specs to make sure that this diff is going to last and last.
I will see if I can't get the camera out for some photos once I am working inside the differential carrier. This is pretty cool ****.
My plan is to have the car ready to race when the weather breaks in the spring. I am going to investigate shifter relocation options with the JZA70 R154 transmission in the event that I do not find a JZZ30 or JZX90/100 R154 before, say, January.
I know Boost Logic has a shifter relocation assembly that they market. This may be the route I take. I am going to inquire with them. Although this would virtually eliminate the possibility of a short shifter, it would give my a 5 spd s/c V8 in a Lexus. Ultimately, this is what I want more than anything.
I realize that I am thinking out loud on this thread...
My SC300 diff has been deconstructed. I will hope to get the LSD dropped in tomorrow. I will painstakingly check the runouts, alignments, and torque specs to make sure that this diff is going to last and last.
I will see if I can't get the camera out for some photos once I am working inside the differential carrier. This is pretty cool ****.
08-10-07, 08:37 PM
#50
08-10-07, 09:28 PM
#51
I have stumbled across a thread on Supraforums about Boost Logic's R154 kit. I guess they machine their shifter relocation linkage to have shorter throws than stock. This shifter relocation package may run me $500, but a JZA70 tranny is readily available for ~$200-$400. This is very digestible.
I have also stumbled across Tech 2 Motorsports that offers a similar shifter relocation for Nissan guys. I guess the Soarer/Chaser R154 shifter location is perfect of the Silvia guys as well. This helps further explain the scarcity of the Soarer/Chaser R154.
Searching for a Soarer/Chaser R154 was wearing on me. I am excited about the options available for me now.
08-11-07, 06:45 PM
#52
The steps to getting the 4.27 Torsen Differential constructed are half done. I took a number of pictures to chronicle the disassembly of the SC300 diff as it gets reassembled into a beast of a differential.
This is the starting point:
It took me a day of trials and a few emails to Brad Pyle from Supraforums (a Toyota tech) to realize just how rough you could get with the axle stubs on the diff. The advice was to wedge in a pry bar or two and bludgen it with everything you've got:
(I would be nowhere right now without Brad's LSD and Brad's advice. The guy is a class act)
The stubs were literally out fifteen minutes after reading Brad's email that came attched with the above photo:
The next cylindrical piece inward, the carrier retainers, were next:
A gear/pulley remover would have been nice to have, but some ambidexterity was equally effective at removing the carrier retainers:
A reinactment to show just how high-tech this stuff really is:
All told, these four units -two each side- hold the differential unit itself in place. Removing them was key for the LSD surgery:
Now, the back plate needs to be removed to allow the differential unit to be accessed.
After draining the oil, this is what you are left with:
This is the starting point:
It took me a day of trials and a few emails to Brad Pyle from Supraforums (a Toyota tech) to realize just how rough you could get with the axle stubs on the diff. The advice was to wedge in a pry bar or two and bludgen it with everything you've got:
(I would be nowhere right now without Brad's LSD and Brad's advice. The guy is a class act)
The stubs were literally out fifteen minutes after reading Brad's email that came attched with the above photo:
The next cylindrical piece inward, the carrier retainers, were next:
A gear/pulley remover would have been nice to have, but some ambidexterity was equally effective at removing the carrier retainers:
A reinactment to show just how high-tech this stuff really is:
All told, these four units -two each side- hold the differential unit itself in place. Removing them was key for the LSD surgery:
Now, the back plate needs to be removed to allow the differential unit to be accessed.
After draining the oil, this is what you are left with:
08-11-07, 06:47 PM
#53
Notice the ring on the input shaft that spins with the driveshaft. Perhaps it is now more obvious to see just how the differential is able to apply force perpendicularly.
The greasy open differential is junk. The ring gear, however, is gold for my purposes. The 4.27 gear ratio will yield great starts both with my auto now and the R154 soon. The Torsen LSD in the background has been itching to get a ring gear for weeks.
Once the perimeter bolts are removed, the ring takes some gentle coercion to remove itself from the donor diff. I have the towel to apsorb the blows. I babied that ring off slowly with a towel under the ring to prevent any chipping when it did let loose.
So close to construction...
Here is where it gets weird. The ring gear needs to be boiled for ~90 seconds to allow it to expand sufficiently to slide safely over the LSD. Certainly, pounding the gear into place by the teeth is not an option. I got a $4 chili pot from Meijer's and used an old phone cord to allow me to fish the ring out without burning my hands or damaging the ring.
The speed at which I was cutting the phone cord off the ring is not accurately captured in this photo. The ring will only remain inflated a few microns for a few moments before the air temperature returns it to size.
The ring should be pulled up to the LSD to ensure that the bolt holes align properly. I wish I could say I was clever enough to think of this the first time. My ring saw the boiling water twice because I was neither fast enough nor acurate enough with my placement on the first trial.
Before the ring cools sufficiently, two oppossing bolts must be secured to 47 ft*lbs. Again, I was working fast here. But, care is key since cross-threading the ring gear bolts would be the end of this project.
Once the two bolts are secured, the ring must come to room temperature to ensure no deformation of the ring occurs as bolts are torqued. The two bolts in play here got another quarter turn once the diff cooled.
This LSD is a pair of ruby red slippers away from being home. I would really like to know the number of times that a 4.27 ring was placed on a Supra Torsen differential. The n/a Supras with 4.27 gears that received an LSD were given a weaker clutch-type differential, and the SC300 a/t never got an LSD. I would guess the 4.27 Torsen combination is rare to very rare, but it is ideal for SC400 sprinting.
The greasy open differential is junk. The ring gear, however, is gold for my purposes. The 4.27 gear ratio will yield great starts both with my auto now and the R154 soon. The Torsen LSD in the background has been itching to get a ring gear for weeks.
Once the perimeter bolts are removed, the ring takes some gentle coercion to remove itself from the donor diff. I have the towel to apsorb the blows. I babied that ring off slowly with a towel under the ring to prevent any chipping when it did let loose.
So close to construction...
Here is where it gets weird. The ring gear needs to be boiled for ~90 seconds to allow it to expand sufficiently to slide safely over the LSD. Certainly, pounding the gear into place by the teeth is not an option. I got a $4 chili pot from Meijer's and used an old phone cord to allow me to fish the ring out without burning my hands or damaging the ring.
The speed at which I was cutting the phone cord off the ring is not accurately captured in this photo. The ring will only remain inflated a few microns for a few moments before the air temperature returns it to size.
The ring should be pulled up to the LSD to ensure that the bolt holes align properly. I wish I could say I was clever enough to think of this the first time. My ring saw the boiling water twice because I was neither fast enough nor acurate enough with my placement on the first trial.
Before the ring cools sufficiently, two oppossing bolts must be secured to 47 ft*lbs. Again, I was working fast here. But, care is key since cross-threading the ring gear bolts would be the end of this project.
Once the two bolts are secured, the ring must come to room temperature to ensure no deformation of the ring occurs as bolts are torqued. The two bolts in play here got another quarter turn once the diff cooled.
This LSD is a pair of ruby red slippers away from being home. I would really like to know the number of times that a 4.27 ring was placed on a Supra Torsen differential. The n/a Supras with 4.27 gears that received an LSD were given a weaker clutch-type differential, and the SC300 a/t never got an LSD. I would guess the 4.27 Torsen combination is rare to very rare, but it is ideal for SC400 sprinting.
08-12-07, 01:32 AM
#55
To answer an earlier question, there's no reason you cant use a short shifter from a MKIII Supra turbo. They work on a lever arm, the shifters do not enter the transmission in the W58 or the R154 or even the V160.
2jzswap.com also has the shifter extension, it should be identical length to the boostlogic one because Soarer R154s are perfect for S13 2jz swaps.
2jzswap.com also has the shifter extension, it should be identical length to the boostlogic one because Soarer R154s are perfect for S13 2jz swaps.
08-12-07, 06:33 AM
#56
Originally Posted by Bean
2jzswap.com also has the shifter extension, it should be identical length to the boostlogic one because Soarer R154s are perfect for S13 2jz swaps.
08-12-07, 09:45 PM
#57
I had the chance to share an email with Neil:
(1) Neil can source the Genuine Toyota parts to convert the JZA70 R154 to the JZZ30 R154. He says that there are only two part numbers (one of which runs $90 AUD). This converted tranny will take a C's or TRD short shifter with no other modifications. Knowing this, the great scavenger hunt for the JZZ30 tranny is clearly not worth the trouble...for anyone really.
(2) JZA70 clutch kits need to come from Japan and cost a bundle of money accordingly. But, TRD's official site lists identical part numbers for the MA70 (USDM) and JZA70 (JDM) clutch kits. I am hoping that I will be able to use the MA70 clutch since they are easy to find and three times less money than importing something JDM. I am waiting to hear from Neil regarding compatability with his kit.
ps. I will share the JZA70 --> JZZ30 R154 conversion part numbers as soon as I have them
(1) Neil can source the Genuine Toyota parts to convert the JZA70 R154 to the JZZ30 R154. He says that there are only two part numbers (one of which runs $90 AUD). This converted tranny will take a C's or TRD short shifter with no other modifications. Knowing this, the great scavenger hunt for the JZZ30 tranny is clearly not worth the trouble...for anyone really.
(2) JZA70 clutch kits need to come from Japan and cost a bundle of money accordingly. But, TRD's official site lists identical part numbers for the MA70 (USDM) and JZA70 (JDM) clutch kits. I am hoping that I will be able to use the MA70 clutch since they are easy to find and three times less money than importing something JDM. I am waiting to hear from Neil regarding compatability with his kit.
ps. I will share the JZA70 --> JZZ30 R154 conversion part numbers as soon as I have them
Last edited by Blizzy; 08-12-07 at 09:57 PM.
08-13-07, 03:29 PM
#59
Here are excerpts from email dialogue between Neil Griffiths and I regarding the JZZ30 trans conversion:
Neil-
If you could get the parts #'s required for the genuine Toyota transformation, that would be awesome.
-Mark
Neil-
Do these two part numbers require a TRD or C's Short Shifter in addition? Or, are these two part numbers all that is required?
Here a photo from a trans on ebay:
Is the above photo what the two parts you mentioned will produce?
-Mark
This is revolutionary knowledge.
I was initially under the impression that only trannies of the type pictured below were from the Soarer/Chaser:
But, notice the similarities in the shifter location between the above and below photos: they are identical. The top photo (the earlier Soarer R154 iteration), is a closer relative to the JZA70 Supra trans, making it able to be converted easily.
If you read above, the two parts required for the conversion do not include the shifter itself, but TRD and C's make short shifters that will work with this early Soarer R154 trans.
Originally Posted by Neil
Hi Mark,
There are only 2 parts needed ( Genuine ) that will turn the JZA70 R154 into a Factory JZZ30 Setup,( 1991-1994 ), Then you can use the C's or TRD short shifter available for this setup.
I can source these 2 parts for you... ( I know 1 of them is $90 AUD )
Or I can supply the part numbers and your Toyota Dealer may be able to get it for you.
There are only 2 parts needed ( Genuine ) that will turn the JZA70 R154 into a Factory JZZ30 Setup,( 1991-1994 ), Then you can use the C's or TRD short shifter available for this setup.
I can source these 2 parts for you... ( I know 1 of them is $90 AUD )
Or I can supply the part numbers and your Toyota Dealer may be able to get it for you.
If you could get the parts #'s required for the genuine Toyota transformation, that would be awesome.
-Mark
Originally Posted by Neil
Mate,
Part Numbers for Parts are
Housing, Shifter 33521-24040
Control Shift Lever 33570-24010
Part Numbers for Parts are
Housing, Shifter 33521-24040
Control Shift Lever 33570-24010
Do these two part numbers require a TRD or C's Short Shifter in addition? Or, are these two part numbers all that is required?
Here a photo from a trans on ebay:
Is the above photo what the two parts you mentioned will produce?
-Mark
Originally Posted by Neil
You will still have to get the shifter..
YES..the 2 parts will produce that rear housing top cover where the shifter slips down into..
( That pic is of a JZZ30 R154 )
YES..the 2 parts will produce that rear housing top cover where the shifter slips down into..
( That pic is of a JZZ30 R154 )
I was initially under the impression that only trannies of the type pictured below were from the Soarer/Chaser:
But, notice the similarities in the shifter location between the above and below photos: they are identical. The top photo (the earlier Soarer R154 iteration), is a closer relative to the JZA70 Supra trans, making it able to be converted easily.
If you read above, the two parts required for the conversion do not include the shifter itself, but TRD and C's make short shifters that will work with this early Soarer R154 trans.
Last edited by Blizzy; 08-13-07 at 04:58 PM.
08-13-07, 07:55 PM
#60
Blizzy,
Wow dude, I’d just like to say I admire your dedication to this project. The time you’re putting into research alone must be staggering……(same to you ScottURnot and SC400TT by the way)
If I had the time, money, 2nd car, and didn’t have the wife and two kids, I’d probably be doing the same.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the wife and two kids, and I do have a 2nd car, but it’s a Sienna which usually contains the wife and kids when it’s on the road. LOL.
Anyway, IMO the manual would be awesome. I would do the swap in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for the (again) cost, time, and vehicle down time.
Sorry to hear about the 2UZ bracket issues. I had exchanged a couple of emails with Rob Welsh, he said he did find another bracket but advised me to see how your project went first.
Nice write-up on the LSD. Looks much easier than I would have suspected. I will have to look into the LSD units. I’d rather not mess with the ratio, I’d like to keep the speedo accurate.
I hope to do a good write-up on my torque converter, ektuning headers install, maybe the info will help you. Do you plan on headers? The main reason I'm doing the headers is because hopefully one day I’ll be putting on a charger, otherwise I’d leave on the stock manifolds.
Ok, think I’m done, sorry for the randomness of my post. Keep us updated!!!
KC
Wow dude, I’d just like to say I admire your dedication to this project. The time you’re putting into research alone must be staggering……(same to you ScottURnot and SC400TT by the way)
If I had the time, money, 2nd car, and didn’t have the wife and two kids, I’d probably be doing the same.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the wife and two kids, and I do have a 2nd car, but it’s a Sienna which usually contains the wife and kids when it’s on the road. LOL.
Anyway, IMO the manual would be awesome. I would do the swap in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for the (again) cost, time, and vehicle down time.
Sorry to hear about the 2UZ bracket issues. I had exchanged a couple of emails with Rob Welsh, he said he did find another bracket but advised me to see how your project went first.
Nice write-up on the LSD. Looks much easier than I would have suspected. I will have to look into the LSD units. I’d rather not mess with the ratio, I’d like to keep the speedo accurate.
I hope to do a good write-up on my torque converter, ektuning headers install, maybe the info will help you. Do you plan on headers? The main reason I'm doing the headers is because hopefully one day I’ll be putting on a charger, otherwise I’d leave on the stock manifolds.
Ok, think I’m done, sorry for the randomness of my post. Keep us updated!!!
KC