2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

Lol, geez you are all over the place man. First it's a glowing compressor housing(which probably wouldn't ever happen on a car) and how you tried to relate that to a turbo turbine housing, then posted up a link which had no relevance to anything you have said at all because they do include an aftercooler(same principle as I/C). Now your reasoning is he doesn't need it for low boost. Well, hes at 10 psi if I'm not mistaken and as a forum we should suggest things that keep the engine in a safe operating range. He has done a great job so far with putting things together and innovation and to not suggest an I/C at this point for his sake is just too much for me. Do you even know what octane he is running? I might have missed it, and sorry if I did, but how can you back not having an I/C when you don't even know for sure what conditions he is running? So his AFR is in a good range, so what, that is only one part of alot of factors that should be considered. I am trying to suggest something that will for sure keep his ride safe and increase his hp.


Jon

Lextreme

Please re-read Post 235. Meanwhile, please try not to hi jack KC's thread. I said turbo glowing in general not specific part. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRU2lDCSfBU

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the compliments guys.

I am 100% convinced there is more power to be had with some tweaking.

I was running a bit richer than I would have liked, looking at my AEM wideband readings. I was logging the entire time it was on the dyno and you can't really go by the readings on the graph because they are after the drivers side cat converter.

Putting the IC back in would surely add some power.

Changing the intake into the supercharger, this could be a dramatic difference. The tuner guy was saying that they usually use intake pipe that is at least a half inch bigger than the inlet size of the supercharger. Well, my inlet is 3.5 inches and I'm using 3 inch pipe for the inlet. If you look at the graphs, the hp curve doesen't seem to climb as much as it maybe should as boost climbs. I can only think of two causes for this..the inlet side of the supercharger is restricted or....the supercharger is running out of breath. I'm hoping that reducing the inlet resistance will increase power significantly.

Of course, bolting a v1 or v2 in place would yeild allot more power, everything else being equal. The V-9 f trim that I am using is, technically a little small for the motor.

I would be dissapointed to not see at least 20hp with the EKT headers, if I ever get the stupid things. I emailed them today, asking for the headers or my money back. I would go SS if it came down to it.

I also think that if the dyno could load the car a bit more, I'd see more boost and higher numbers. The guy doing the runs was impressed by how fast the car went through the RPM's.

KC

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

Yes, if you guys want to argue about intercooling, please start another thread on it.

I will, however put in my opinion.

I have tried quite a few different setups, at least seven or so, both intercooled and non intercooled.

With my current setup, I am seeing on average, 35-50 degrees above ambient without boost. Just cruising. Add an average of 20-40 degrees with boost. If its 100 degrees outside, I might see 155-190 degrees with boost. From everything I've read, this is not horribly excessive. Some intercooled turbo setups are still quite a bit higher than this.

The reason I have taken the IC back out, the car is more fun to drive without it. What's the point of making more power if the car is less fun to drive?

Honestly, the temps do still make me a little nervous. Not so much now, but I'm a little bit worried about the hot North Carolina summer months.

I am going to re-install the IC to give it another try. I have not tried using it since I have fixed the last few problems that I've had. Fixing these problems cured quite a few drivability issues I was having so now, the IC might not take away as much of the "fun to drive" factor since the car is now running way better than the last time I tried using it.

BTW, with the IC, I was seeing temps around 10-15 above ambient and very little increase with boost. A dramatic difference for sure.

KC

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

ROFL Dude do you realize how contradictive your posts are to what you are saying? First you say that you don't see a s/c glow becuase it produces lower air charges, neither does a turbo compressor housing However I stated the a turbine housing glows all the time, but you relate glowing to air charges, I must be crazy cuz I always thought that it was due to insane EGT's & velocity were focused in a small shell on the turbine housing, but wait...... an s/c doesn't have a turbine housing....hmmmm how did you make that connection again, and what does air charges have to do with glowing exhaust housings? ? Then you say an I/C isn't needed and give a link to a s/c that has an integrated aftercooler right on the link. To top it all off then you post a vid of a turbo Turbine housing glowing, to explain my point to perfection, haha. I hope someone else finds this as comical as I do. Ok guys I'm done now. Sorry about getting a little carried away. Good luck with the build KC.


Jon

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

Your right, I reread the post and it helps me to explain alot better, thanks man.

No duh, thats cuz s/c dont have turbine housings, compressors vary rarely glow dude, and turbine housing glow because of hot exhaust focusing in a small area with alot of velocity, absolutely nothing to do with air charges in cmopressor housings.

Then you post this.... Mase sure to read the part where they say that it has an integrated aftercooler.
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...=94&cat_key=11

K.C.:

Ok seriously I'm done now. Im really not trying to be a **** but all this is just so filled with b.s. that something needs to be said before someone reads this and gets wrong ideas about alot of things.You say that some turbo/I/C setups are running well above ambient temps. I dont doubt that at all, but there are factors such as design of the I/C (i.e. bar and plate or tube and fin), size of the I/C, amount of boost, engine temps, etc. that need to be considered along with that and on about 99% of those I can almost guarantee something wasn't set up correctly. You are building everything yourself and learning on the way and there is no better way to do it than that, excellent job so far. But remember the I/C is not just for performance, its for safety. If an I/C system is set up correctly, its A++++ all across the board with very little response disturbance.

Jon

LexusFTW

iTrader: (7)

I get it and I like following the drama.

Bottom line is, some S/C kits dont come with any type of cooler. It safe to not run an intercooler to a point, but you will always make more power with a cooler air charge.

As far as the air charge temps of an S/C compared to a turbo under the same psi, the turbo may be slightly higher due to the relationship between the turbo and the exhaust housing but the main component of heat in this situation is the fact that compressed air = heat.

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

Hilarious no? LexusFTW aren't you in Tulsa?

Lextreme

I love this quote from my super moderator: KDog Never argue with an idiot! They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

Wow what a great ending statement to back up all this amazing factual and logical information that you have put forth. Look man, you have already made it apparent that have been bsing the whole way by trying to sound like you know what you are talking about, there is no point in name calling. Lets just drop this and try to act like adults. I know what you were trying to get at about s/c producing less of a compressed charge of air than that of a turboed motor which would require some sort of cooling or it would just be a blown motor waiting to happen. But the way you related it to "glowing" was a big mistake because then you are relating irrelevent material to try and prove your point. Its like taking peanut butter and jelly and making it jelly and mustard, just no sense. So this shows that you are missing some basic functionality concepts, no offense. I think you were relating the picture in the link to try and show that there is no visual I/C, but remember this is just a marketing picture and when it come right down to it, good expensive kits like this one will include the use of some form of way to cool the air. I don't really know what the glowing link was for. You may or may not have built that twin turbo motor, but you're never too experienced to learn something new and accept new concepts and ideas. You may or may not be twice my age, but don't mistake my youth for ignorance.

Jon

ScottURnot

iTrader: (33)

Lets get this thread back to KC's build! No more talking on his thread about this. Start your own thread or take it to PM.
Thanks for understanding.

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

Thanks.

KC

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

I'm going to give the IC another go. I have not tried it recently, since the car is running as well as it is.

Watching the logs I made while on the dyno, my intake temps were hitting 160+, 70 outside. I still don't think the temps are too extreme, but it couldn't hurt to retry the IC anyway. I have also thought about using a smaller one, the one I have is fairly large.

KC

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

Update.

So, I'm very obsessive. So much so, I will be hitting the dyno again tomorrow, assuming I can sneak out of work for long enough.

Changes I've made since last week.

I put the intercooler back in. The car is driving great with the intercooler, better than it ever has before. I don't know if its better now because I'm running speed density or if its better because I fixed a few other problems I had, or both. Boost does come in a little slower, but its barely noticeable. My intake temps are fantastic. Last night on my way home from work, I drove the **** out of the car. It was about 50 degrees outside and I couldn't do anything to make my temps go above 86 degrees. The intercooler should be worth some horsepower, my temps are about 50-60 degrees lower than they were without.

My bypass valve was leaking. This could've been a huge loss of power. I've had some seamingly insignificant leaks really screw with me in the past. I fixed the leak and have tested it several times, seems to be ok now.

Couple of things I want to try while on the dyno.

I am very curious to see what I might gain while running without the airfilter and intake pipe installed. Just for a dyno run or two of course. I've recently done some reading on the Vortech power pipes. Most people that upgrade to them claim to get an additional 1-2 psi. This is a dramatic result from simply upgrading the intake pipe to 4 inches. I currently have a 3 inch pipe in place for the intake and the inlet is 3.5 inches, so I think I would likely gain a bit, even if I just upgraded to 3.5 inch pipe. I really don't think I could make 4 inch pipe fit.

I would like to take the drive belt off, just to get an idea of my NA power. I wouldn't bother putting the stock belt on so the results would be NA minus power steering, ac, and alternator.

I might try and due a little self tuning, if they'll let me.

KC

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

Does anyone have anything good or bad to say about the HKS pod filters?

Or, the Greddy Airnix?

Other filter recomendations? Keep in mind I have very little room between the supercharger and the radiator.

The best solution for my intake would be to simply put a high flow filter directly on the inlet without any piping. I would be sucking in some hot air, but I think the intercooler would take care of most of the extra heat.

KC