Writeup on dual nozzle meth install w/ pics.
10-04-08, 11:35 AM
#1
Writeup on dual nozzle meth install w/ pics.
Sup fellas,
Finally got my meth kit installed. I told Chance there at Devil's Own that I would do a write up for him. So here it goes. First I should throw this in though, hate to, but I should....
Any variation of install procedure done by myself is of my own personal preference and has no affiliation with Devil's Own. Furthermore, I assume no responsibility for anyone installing a water/meth kit following the same basic procedures as what I have written.
All of my supplies were purchased from these two companies:
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/wat...tage-2-12.html
http://www.aquastealth.com/weldinnozzlebung.aspx
Basically what I ended up doing was buying a Level 2 Universal Kit drom Devil's Own with a dual nozzle upgrade. How Devil's Own nozzles install is by tapping the pipe itself and then installing the nozzle directly into the pipe. Personally I didn't like this idea so I bought 2 bungs from aquastealth and also a filter. Chance was very persistent with the quality of his nozzles and went into great detail about how they were machined and the process's to make the atomization and delivery top notch. So I ended up using the Devil's Own nozzles in the bungs from aquastealth, it ended up working out perfectly, and the seal from the Devil's Own nozzles make a perfect seal.
First off find a spot to mount your pump, there is an infinite number of ways to do this but however you do it make sure that it is securely fastened. I chose to mount it up underneath the driver side fender, close to where I was going to tap the pipe for the nozzles. I wanted everything close together, it cuts down on all the variables if something happens to go wrong and keeps the distance that the pump has to work at a minimum. It was also close to the washer tank that I used for the resivoir. I had to remove the tank to get into the area so that is where we will start...
Mounting the Pump and preparing the washer resivoir.
Remove the washer tank and drain/wash it of all the old fluids. Next get yourself a 11/32 drill bit and tap the bottom of the resivoir for the feed to the pump.
Take the supplied washer and place it around the 90 degree fitting supplied in the kit like so (rubber facing tank)
I find it is always easiest when you are tapping plastic to use some sort of pliers or vise grips to get a good grip on the fitting so you can apply some force as your are threading/tapping the drilled hole.
Once you are done drilling, tapping, and screwing the fitting in and out. sand the outside area and Rerinse the tank to make sure no plastic debris is wandering around. Get it as clean as you can.
I removed the tow hook and it gave me plenty of room to mount the pump:
Here is the pump mounted:
Placement of the nozzles.
I chose dual smaller nozzles for the reason that smaller nozzles will atomize better when introduced into the air stream (given the fact that you are keeping the pressure constant), and to make sure I had plenty of meth/water delivery I went with 2 nozzles. Now I did a couple things differently than normal here, after talking with a couple members (LexusFTW was a big help as always), Chance and others, I decided to mount them 90 degrees to each other, I don't know if this actually gives any benefit or not because my placement of the nozzles were so far down in the piping that there is more than enough time to disburse evenly throughout the incoming air stream. Another thing I did, was a cut the bungs at a slight angle, maybe 20 degrees or so, and welded them so the nozzle is actually point towards the flow of the air stream. Not so much that it has problems atomizing, but to insure that there is no pressure on the nozzle when it is trying to spray, here is a couple pictures:
Hopefully you can see the slight angle that I welded it at.
Now, thread the nozzles into the bungs on the pipe. Then, take the straight pushlock fittings and screw those into the 90 degree block, next screw on the 90 degree fittings w/ the pushlock fittings installed onto the nozzles, (make sure that the filter on the nozzle itself is snug). There is no real need to get the 90's tight yet, you will need to adjust them later.
Make sure when you are done with the welding and drilling holes in the pipe, that you clean it thoroughly, I used a dremel tool and some 80 grit sanding paper to make sure no aluminum flakes where haning on. Use some sort of high pressure rinsing when you are done with the sanding and getting all the flakes out.
More to come on next page....
Finally got my meth kit installed. I told Chance there at Devil's Own that I would do a write up for him. So here it goes. First I should throw this in though, hate to, but I should....
Any variation of install procedure done by myself is of my own personal preference and has no affiliation with Devil's Own. Furthermore, I assume no responsibility for anyone installing a water/meth kit following the same basic procedures as what I have written.
All of my supplies were purchased from these two companies:
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/wat...tage-2-12.html
http://www.aquastealth.com/weldinnozzlebung.aspx
Basically what I ended up doing was buying a Level 2 Universal Kit drom Devil's Own with a dual nozzle upgrade. How Devil's Own nozzles install is by tapping the pipe itself and then installing the nozzle directly into the pipe. Personally I didn't like this idea so I bought 2 bungs from aquastealth and also a filter. Chance was very persistent with the quality of his nozzles and went into great detail about how they were machined and the process's to make the atomization and delivery top notch. So I ended up using the Devil's Own nozzles in the bungs from aquastealth, it ended up working out perfectly, and the seal from the Devil's Own nozzles make a perfect seal.
First off find a spot to mount your pump, there is an infinite number of ways to do this but however you do it make sure that it is securely fastened. I chose to mount it up underneath the driver side fender, close to where I was going to tap the pipe for the nozzles. I wanted everything close together, it cuts down on all the variables if something happens to go wrong and keeps the distance that the pump has to work at a minimum. It was also close to the washer tank that I used for the resivoir. I had to remove the tank to get into the area so that is where we will start...
Mounting the Pump and preparing the washer resivoir.
Remove the washer tank and drain/wash it of all the old fluids. Next get yourself a 11/32 drill bit and tap the bottom of the resivoir for the feed to the pump.
Take the supplied washer and place it around the 90 degree fitting supplied in the kit like so (rubber facing tank)
I find it is always easiest when you are tapping plastic to use some sort of pliers or vise grips to get a good grip on the fitting so you can apply some force as your are threading/tapping the drilled hole.
Once you are done drilling, tapping, and screwing the fitting in and out. sand the outside area and Rerinse the tank to make sure no plastic debris is wandering around. Get it as clean as you can.
I removed the tow hook and it gave me plenty of room to mount the pump:
Here is the pump mounted:
Placement of the nozzles.
I chose dual smaller nozzles for the reason that smaller nozzles will atomize better when introduced into the air stream (given the fact that you are keeping the pressure constant), and to make sure I had plenty of meth/water delivery I went with 2 nozzles. Now I did a couple things differently than normal here, after talking with a couple members (LexusFTW was a big help as always), Chance and others, I decided to mount them 90 degrees to each other, I don't know if this actually gives any benefit or not because my placement of the nozzles were so far down in the piping that there is more than enough time to disburse evenly throughout the incoming air stream. Another thing I did, was a cut the bungs at a slight angle, maybe 20 degrees or so, and welded them so the nozzle is actually point towards the flow of the air stream. Not so much that it has problems atomizing, but to insure that there is no pressure on the nozzle when it is trying to spray, here is a couple pictures:
Hopefully you can see the slight angle that I welded it at.
Now, thread the nozzles into the bungs on the pipe. Then, take the straight pushlock fittings and screw those into the 90 degree block, next screw on the 90 degree fittings w/ the pushlock fittings installed onto the nozzles, (make sure that the filter on the nozzle itself is snug). There is no real need to get the 90's tight yet, you will need to adjust them later.
Make sure when you are done with the welding and drilling holes in the pipe, that you clean it thoroughly, I used a dremel tool and some 80 grit sanding paper to make sure no aluminum flakes where haning on. Use some sort of high pressure rinsing when you are done with the sanding and getting all the flakes out.
More to come on next page....
10-04-08, 11:36 AM
#2
Running the Alky line, check valve, and filter.
After you have got the pump mounted, the washer resivoir tapped, cleaned and fitting installed, and the pipe cleaned and ready to go as well, you can go ahead and being to mach everything up and run the lines. Here is the pipe back in:
Here is the line coming out of the pump, into the "Y", and then into the first nozzle.
Second line out of the "Y" and into the second nozzle.
Now that you have all the nozzle lines run, go back to the part of the alky line that is after the pump but before the "Y",cut the line in half and install the check valve. Make sure the flow is going with the arrow.
Now run the line from the resivoir to the pump. Then go back and in the middle of that line, cut it in half and installl the filter, again flow is with the arrow.
Priming the Pump
After everything is hooked up tight with the lines and you have filled the tank with your desired water/meth ratio, remove both of the straight fittings from the 90 degree blocks where they meet your nozzle, put them in a can or old jug to catch the meth you are about to spray everywhere. Hook the pump up directly to the battery and let it pull meth from the tank and prime the pump itself as well as the filter/lines. This also gives you a chance to make sure you pump is mounted securely and nothing is leaking. Keep it hooked up until it starts to spray out the lines, this may take some time, mine took about 15-20 seconds before it was all primed.
Here is pretty much the final pick of what it looks like down there:
After you have got the pump mounted, the washer resivoir tapped, cleaned and fitting installed, and the pipe cleaned and ready to go as well, you can go ahead and being to mach everything up and run the lines. Here is the pipe back in:
Here is the line coming out of the pump, into the "Y", and then into the first nozzle.
Second line out of the "Y" and into the second nozzle.
Now that you have all the nozzle lines run, go back to the part of the alky line that is after the pump but before the "Y",cut the line in half and install the check valve. Make sure the flow is going with the arrow.
Now run the line from the resivoir to the pump. Then go back and in the middle of that line, cut it in half and installl the filter, again flow is with the arrow.
Priming the Pump
After everything is hooked up tight with the lines and you have filled the tank with your desired water/meth ratio, remove both of the straight fittings from the 90 degree blocks where they meet your nozzle, put them in a can or old jug to catch the meth you are about to spray everywhere. Hook the pump up directly to the battery and let it pull meth from the tank and prime the pump itself as well as the filter/lines. This also gives you a chance to make sure you pump is mounted securely and nothing is leaking. Keep it hooked up until it starts to spray out the lines, this may take some time, mine took about 15-20 seconds before it was all primed.
Here is pretty much the final pick of what it looks like down there:
10-05-08, 01:18 AM
#5
Thanks guys!
Significant, I am on OBD 1 ecu w/ a MAP ECU 2, the pulls get consistently stronger every time. I never reset my ecu so it's beginning to relearn the timing values as there is a significant reduction in knock. I have also advanced the timing 1-3 (varying on RPM/Boost) over what the oem ecu is running via the ECU 2. All I have done is up the boost maybe a pound or so, and play with timing, AFR's have yet to be touched, pretty solid, but I am doing some investigating to make sure that I don't have to account for anything unseen, but so far all ++++ across the board.
Jon
Significant, I am on OBD 1 ecu w/ a MAP ECU 2, the pulls get consistently stronger every time. I never reset my ecu so it's beginning to relearn the timing values as there is a significant reduction in knock. I have also advanced the timing 1-3 (varying on RPM/Boost) over what the oem ecu is running via the ECU 2. All I have done is up the boost maybe a pound or so, and play with timing, AFR's have yet to be touched, pretty solid, but I am doing some investigating to make sure that I don't have to account for anything unseen, but so far all ++++ across the board.
Jon
10-05-08, 01:09 PM
#7
I'm running about a 90/10 mix (meth/water), I'm more concerned about timing adjustments and being able to run a few more pounds than just having lower intake temps. The maps are getting better and better, pulls stronger and stronger. Last night I was in OKC w/ some friends, an 04 M3 and I went from about a 30-140, I gave him a length to start and he jumped the gun, when we were done, I was 2 cars ahead. I have only upped the boost maybe a 1-2 pds. But the pull is so much stronger because of the timing adjustments I have made. Just now starting to mess with fuel cells. Well worth it imho.
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10-06-08, 08:53 PM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
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would you say 2 nozzles injecting would be as good as a variable pump injection kit?
I'm debating whether or not to buy a variable control module or just going with a 2 stage system
I'm debating whether or not to buy a variable control module or just going with a 2 stage system
10-06-08, 09:15 PM
#9
Well...what exactly do you mean by two stage? One nozzle is full blast at one setting and then another is on full blast at another preset setting? Instead of progressively increasing the spray? That just really sounds like alot of extra hassle with little to no gain over just a regular progressive setup w/ 2 nozzles. Mine is set to come on at 3 and full by 8-9 pds. Even if you were running like 30 pds and wanted to inject more meth I don't think it would be worth it. I don't really see the gain of doing a two stage. I'm open to any ideas though.
10-07-08, 12:50 PM
#10
Very nice setup. I'm waiting to get my suspension done before I go and start this up. You're making me want to drop the suspension and do this now. lol.
Not to familiar with your setup but, how is the map-ecu2 working out for you? 2jzge or gte? maf or no maf?
Not to familiar with your setup but, how is the map-ecu2 working out for you? 2jzge or gte? maf or no maf?
10-09-08, 04:54 AM
#13
2jzlex,
Your installation is immaculate - very nice work!
I would not otherwise comment, but I do have a few concerns. So, please don't take offense.
It appears the reservoir is above the nozzles; if so, you risk methanol gravity feeding through the pump and nozzles into the pipes and pooling in the IC. It has happened to others, and I'm concerned it could happen with your setup. I, too, have a check valve, and it won't prevent methanol from gravity feeding into the IC piping.
Second, I see your BOVs on the charge pipe inside the engine bay. Do you have concerns about discharging methanol through the BOVs? It most certainly will happen with the nozzles up stream of the BOVs. My primary concern is the possibility of an inadvertent spark igniting the 90/10 mixture. An aerosol of any type is easily combustible, and I would be especially concerned about methanol in aerosol form.
Lastly, I haven't seen a setup with the nozzles located so far from the throttle body. I'm not saying it won't work, but was there a particular reason you located the nozzle bungs where shown in your writeup?
I hope you'll take my comments constructively. I have injected methanol for years and am just trying to help a fellow CL member out.
-scott
Your installation is immaculate - very nice work!
I would not otherwise comment, but I do have a few concerns. So, please don't take offense.
It appears the reservoir is above the nozzles; if so, you risk methanol gravity feeding through the pump and nozzles into the pipes and pooling in the IC. It has happened to others, and I'm concerned it could happen with your setup. I, too, have a check valve, and it won't prevent methanol from gravity feeding into the IC piping.
Second, I see your BOVs on the charge pipe inside the engine bay. Do you have concerns about discharging methanol through the BOVs? It most certainly will happen with the nozzles up stream of the BOVs. My primary concern is the possibility of an inadvertent spark igniting the 90/10 mixture. An aerosol of any type is easily combustible, and I would be especially concerned about methanol in aerosol form.
Lastly, I haven't seen a setup with the nozzles located so far from the throttle body. I'm not saying it won't work, but was there a particular reason you located the nozzle bungs where shown in your writeup?
I hope you'll take my comments constructively. I have injected methanol for years and am just trying to help a fellow CL member out.
-scott
Last edited by motorheaddown; 10-09-08 at 06:08 AM.
10-09-08, 06:23 AM
#14
2jzlex,
Your installation is immaculate - very nice work!
I would not otherwise comment, but I do have a few concerns. So, please don't take offense.
It appears the reservoir is above the nozzles; if so, you risk methanol gravity feeding through the pump and nozzles into the pipes and pooling in the IC. It has happened to others, and I'm concerned it could happen with your setup. I, too, have a check valve, and it won't prevent methanol from gravity feeding into your piping.
Second, I see your BOVs on the charge pipe inside the engine bay. Do you have concerns about discharging methanol through the BOVs? It most certainly will happen with the nozzles up stream of the BOVs. My primary concern is the possibility of an inadvertent spark igniting the 90/10 mixture.
Lastly, I haven't seen a setup with the nozzles located so far from the throttle body. I'm not saying it won't work, but was there a particular reason you located the nozzle bungs where shown in your writeup?
I hope you'll take my comments constructively. I have injected methanol for years and am just trying to help a fellow CL member out.
-scott
Your installation is immaculate - very nice work!
I would not otherwise comment, but I do have a few concerns. So, please don't take offense.
It appears the reservoir is above the nozzles; if so, you risk methanol gravity feeding through the pump and nozzles into the pipes and pooling in the IC. It has happened to others, and I'm concerned it could happen with your setup. I, too, have a check valve, and it won't prevent methanol from gravity feeding into your piping.
Second, I see your BOVs on the charge pipe inside the engine bay. Do you have concerns about discharging methanol through the BOVs? It most certainly will happen with the nozzles up stream of the BOVs. My primary concern is the possibility of an inadvertent spark igniting the 90/10 mixture.
Lastly, I haven't seen a setup with the nozzles located so far from the throttle body. I'm not saying it won't work, but was there a particular reason you located the nozzle bungs where shown in your writeup?
I hope you'll take my comments constructively. I have injected methanol for years and am just trying to help a fellow CL member out.
-scott
No offense whatsoever, thanks for having valid concerns.
If you have had problems w/ methanol pooling/leaking through the nozzles then you need a better check valve, period. There is no way that a few inches of gravitational force should be able to pull meth through your check valve, it just shouldn't happen. The only concern about anything above/below that I was worried about in the setup was my pump itself being above my reservoir, instead of gravity feeding the pump so it doens't have to work harder to get the mixture to the pump. But again, try a different check valve, that shouldn't be happening.
I am going to answer your 3rd question before the second so it helps me with the next one. The farther your nozzles from the TB, the better chance you have of atomization and the cooling affects thereof. By your response I am almost inclined to think that you feel there is only a short amount of time when it can be utilized? This isn't the fact at all. Your meth does not have a "life span" or "time frame" when it can be utilized. It simply gives it more time to become more thoroughly atomized and even distributed. It never actually "goes away" or becomes less effective as distance increases, actually it's exactly the opposite. The ONLY way I would have my nozzle anywhere close to the TB, or even on the intake mani itself w/ a direct port setup, would be to use a higher PSI pump and smaller nozzles. Atomization is the key component in Meth other than the mixture itself. Not only does it enhance the cooling effect, but it helps to evenly distribute the meth/water mixture in the incoming air charge. I do know this, my setup is definately working well. Completely changed the WOT attitude of my car. I would attribute half of it to the 90/10 mix and half of it being that it is placed so far downstream.
I am not concerned about releasing meth through the BOV even though I have thought about this. The reason that I'm not worried is that it only dispells the charge in the pipe when the throttle plate is closed, throttle plate closed equals no boost, no boost equals no spray. Granted there is still some left in the piping on it's way to the TB, but the amount that will be let out of the BOV will be minimal, and even the small bit that is let out, should be considerably atomized due to the previous discussion. Even if by some chance that there was an ample enough amount to ignite, or it was still somehow pressured in the atmosphere, there definately shouldn't be anything in the vicinity hot enough to ignite it, or creating enough friction to cause the reaction.
Jon
Last edited by 2jzlex; 10-09-08 at 06:27 AM.
10-09-08, 07:09 AM
#15
Hi Jon,
I appreciate your constructive reply. You have provided good information.
I was not inclined to imply anything regarding the location of the nozzles. I was just curious about your rationale; it's that simple. I have had success with the nozzle 6" or so from the TB and haven't seen it installed that far away. The only real difference, as you state, is the atomization.
FWIW, I'd be interested in knowing how much methanol makes it past the BOVs when the throttle plate closes. Any chance you can take some video of the engine bay on the dyno next time? That would put to rest any concerns.
Thanks again for your reply!
-scott
I appreciate your constructive reply. You have provided good information.
I was not inclined to imply anything regarding the location of the nozzles. I was just curious about your rationale; it's that simple.
I have had success with the nozzle 6" or so from the TB and haven't seen it installed that far away. The only real difference, as you state, is the atomization.FWIW, I'd be interested in knowing how much methanol makes it past the BOVs when the throttle plate closes. Any chance you can take some video of the engine bay on the dyno next time? That would put to rest any concerns.
Thanks again for your reply!
-scott