KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

Ok guys, install is done. Went for a quick drive earlier and I am so far impressed by the temp results. On a 2nd gear, almost WOT run and about 160+ kpa the intake temp was only about 15 degrees above ambient. This is better than the intercooler while just cruising with no boost.

It will definately need some tuning though, I was running quite rich. I had also reset the ECM so there will likely be some relearning involved as well.

I don't have any pics yet but I'll try and take some soon.

Using washer fluid for now BTW for I have not yet found a source of methanol. It is -20 degrees and according to the fluids msds sheet, it is 35% methanol by weight which if I'm not mistaken makes it about 40% by volume.

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v8soarer91, everything I've read on water / meth injection indicates it is a bad idea to spray before the intercooler due to the vapor turning back into a liquid and pooling inside the intercooler. Also interesting, apparently with pre compressor injection, the intercooler can actually heat the intake charge due to the low temp coming out of the compressor in the first place.

spin all 4, I have a IAT reading in the car that I almost always tend to keep an eye on. I might get a flow sensor or an IAT gauge to be safer though.

KC

tampa mike

iTrader: (2)

Dont know if its been mentioned in here yet or not but on alot of the setups we build at my shop that include a water/meth/alcky kit we like to use the "boost juice" its really inexpensive and comes in either 1 gallon or a 4 gallon pack and you can get it from jegs or summit and usually comes in like 2 days or less. 4 gallons lasts a pretty good amount of time for a single car.

I did some racegas VS. meth testing and for someone who drives their car more than just a couple days a week, pumpgas + alky/mth/water is the way to go, the savings is remendous.

My other cars runs C16 only and at 12.35 a gallon and my tank is only a 9 gallon size I am filling it quite often with 800+hp the car only sees limited weekend use but of course who doesnt wanna go flex on the street a little, thats where it gets expensive, so I really would have liked to have thought my process a bit more and done a kit on my own car as well.

also the temp reductions is retarded and with a blower setup especially a roots, you almost cant beat the cooling and ability to get wicked with some timing for the price.

I would love to see some results with and without on your car

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

Hey man, thanks for the info.

As far as testing, for now I will use the track. The last few times I've been, 1/4 trap speeds have been around 112mph. Should be able to get a good idea from any increase.

KC

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

These two pics pretty much sum up the install.

This shows the pre vortech nozzle. Also, the loom coming up near the vortech contains the line from the washer tank to the pump. The 12 volt side of the wiring runs through one of the looms in front of the engine and goes from pump to junction block.

KC

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

This pic shows the pump, the t, the pressure side nozzle, the check valve and the vac and water lines. The line going to the vortech intake is run underneath the plastic cover that is in front of the radiator.

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

...... What? Are you saying that prespraying lowers the temp so much that it takes it below ambient and then the I/C will actually raise it when passing through...? Yeah show me some proof...where did you find that? Or are the results from your own tests?

Setup looks good though man. Congrats on the results so far. Get that **** tuned and go get a new time at the track!

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

Something I read. As with pretty much anything to do with pre compressor injection, there isn't really any proof to support it being good or bad.

Made some 2nd gear pulls today and logged them. At redline was hitting about 10.5-11 psi and my IAT temp was reading about 96 degrees. The ambient temp at the time was 84 degrees. This is so awesome! This is way better than with the intercooler.

Likely tonight, I am going to bypass the nozzle going to the supercharger and see if it makes any difference in boost or temp. I am curious to know and it should only take me about five minutes to do. If there is no or very little difference then I just might stick the other nozzle somewhere post supercharger.

Then, once I decide which setup I'm keeping, the tuning begins.

KC

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

So, I would have to say that the intercooler heating up the charge with pre-compressor injection is plausible. On my way home today, with a low boost pull, my IAT temp was showing 3 degrees cooler than ambient. The IAT temp is taken after both nozzles but I'd have to say it's plausible.

And, I did a little more testing and logging. Now ideally, this would all be done on a track or a dyno with a consistant ambient temperature but for now, that's not within my means so conditions are a little different between tests.

1. Without WM injection and with the intercooler. A week or two ago I was at the dragstrip and logged a run. Ambient was 60-65 degrees. By the end of second gear I was at about 9 psi and the IAT was about 115 degrees.

2. No intercooler with WM injection. 2 nozzles, one before the supercharger and one before the throttle body. Ambient temp about 84. By redline on a WOT 2nd gear pull I was at about 10.5 psi and 96 degrees.

3. No intercooler with WM injection. 1 nozzle before the throttle body (disconnected the pre supercharger nozzle). Ambient temp about 70 degrees. By redline on a WOT 2nd gear pull I was at about 10.5 psi and 85 degrees.

So I would have to say that with my setup, the pre-supercharger injection is not really helping enough to make it worth the risk. Are you guys happy now!

For whatever reason, I was not running nearly as rich without the 2nd nozzle before the supercharger.

Now the question is: Should I put the second nozzle in somewhere else after the supercharger? I could in theory install a nozzle directly into the outlet of the supercharger, there is a port (pretty sure its the same size) that it could be installed to. Or, I could put it closer to the throttle body.



KC

spin all 4

If you're in a bind you can get meth. at walmart.

It comes in the red bottles of "heet" or what ever its called fuel line de icer. Not exacly cheap this way as they're small bottles but it gets the job done in a hurry.

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

Pushing 8 pds or so on something small sure, anything significant, you're on borrowed time if you do this. Yes there are alot of people that do it, that doesn't make it okay or smart. I won't get into depth about it, just know that they aren't the same and are never intended to function for that purpose. Especially if you have already tuned for some serious power.

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

2jzlex, please, do go into depth. I'm very curious to hear it.

I am currently using Advanced Auto Parts -20 with a bottle of Heet added. According to the MSDS sheet for the washer fluid, it is 40% methanol by weight which makes it pretty near 50 / 50 by volume. The MSDS lists nothing else, only methanol.

The only thing I can think of....are there different grades of methanol like there are with gasoline?

KC

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

I haven't been posting but I have been busy. Been to the track twice, tried a few different setups, made a plug change and have been tuning.

The setup. I think I have settled on something, I will take some pics tomorrow. The piping is run through the engine bay, about as much of a direct shot as possible. Both nozzles are POST supercharger about 8 inches or so from the throttle body.

The track. As far as times, I seem to have evened out for the most part but still tuning it. I have had some pinging through second and third gear. Haven't yet figured out what that is about. I was under the impression that detonation / pinging / knocking ect was a non problem with injection. My trap speeds are down a tad likely due to the ECU pulling timing.

Plugs. Hoping this might help my pinging issue. Went from bkr7e's gapped at .036 to bkr7eix-11's (iridium) very carefully gapped to .028. In hindsight, I should have probably gotten the bkr8eix's which are one step colder and pre-gapped to .032. Oh well.

Tuning. All the tuning I did pre WM injection is out the window. Have pretty much had to start over but I'm getting there a little bit at a time.

KC

LexusFTW

iTrader: (7)

Why not go 100% meth?

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

I know what you're looking at KC...... MSDS = Material Safety Data Sheet, which has absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing. In your MSDS it says there is roughly X amount of methanol/volume for health reasons and risks. It isn't the only ingredient..... it's the only one that is harmful. That's why it's the only one shown, again it doesn't mean it's the only ingredient.

There are different "purity" levels of methanol. Kind of the same thing as grades but a little different. See here:

http://www.intox.org/databank/docume...anol/cie23.htm

What it doesn't tell you on the bottle or anywhere else is how pure the methanol is, how much it is diluted with what impurities, and if it is even pure methanol to begin with. Do you know why it is used in washer fluid in the first place? To keep it from freezing in winter and break the ice up on the windshield right? It doesn't take a whole lot of unpure methanol to do this in X amount of volume of diluted fluids. Starting to get the picture? Methanol used as a fuel source for petroleum based vehicle is manufactured for that specific purpose and has certain specifications that must be met. "Methanol" used for windshield washer fluid is manufactured and diluted for that specific purpose. Anyone, anyone that says you make the same amount of power on winshield washer fluid, Heet, or anything else, and has the dyno graph and the logs to prove it and it doesn't have considerable affects is full of *****. (Anyone that's pushing over 8 pds on something larger than T2 series that is.)

KC95SC400

iTrader: (3)

2jzlex,

I don't really care to argue about it but I still don't see a problem. Most of the things listed as "impurities" are just other forms of alcohol which are ok to inject anyway.

Blue washer fluid is 35% methanol, 63% water and 2% blue dye. There is no detergant or other additives in the plain blue washer fluid. The stuff isn't even soapy feeling. Get some on your finger and it will get cold from the evaporation.

Anything but blue washer fluid, fluids stating greater than -20 or that have "de-icer" or "bug repelant" additives are another story.

I'm not saying I will not find a better source. I am actively trying to find some methanol for mixing. I did find out that the local 1/8 track has it. I will be going to Darlington most likely on Wednesday and I'll pick some up if they have it, I've already purchased a gas jug for it.

KC