Sc400 / Gs400 Turbo Kit
03-22-02, 12:39 PM
#46
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I have a T56 now. Its smooth. I really dont mind putting one in my Lexus. Of course, a lot of modifications. If the stock tranny can handle the HP, i really dont mind having an auto tranny. Custom bellhousing is not that hard to get. It will take money.
The picture below is my weekend ride with T56 6 speed.
The picture below is my weekend ride with T56 6 speed.
03-22-02, 08:41 PM
#49
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Hey gang,
Sorry to jump in late....but I had some ideas.
1. We need a entry level kit for 400hp/crank that can be upgraded later to whatever is needed. Really, if we just start talking about 500,550,600 and so on....99% of the potential buyers will go by the way side. Very few people have any idea what its like to tune 500hp.....let alone drive a car with 500hp.
2. At the above mentioned entry level kit....the stock auto trans in the SC will be fine. Again, few have had to deal with the drivetrain issues that 500+hp will bring up. If anything...we could just upgrade the SC trans valvebody and converter and we would have one stout setup without spending boat loads of cash.
I have a 91Supra turbo with over 125k miles on the stock auto trans. My hp levels? 400hp at the crank...dyno tuned. The trans has never been apart....only mod was a Level 10 valve body upgrade and the thing bangs gears like a racecar. Boost levels on this daily driver? 20psi.
So, lets not take this thread into the areas of putting TH400s, T56, whatever into our cars....I for one will not do it. If we want to get behind a turbo/s kit...yes lets start it up. But, 500+ entry level is not for me. I already have another supra in the garage with that kind of power 500range and dont need to go cutting up the SC4.
Lets get another thread going just on tech issues turbo kit only and getting the turbo kits done. Please.
Sorry to jump in late....but I had some ideas.
1. We need a entry level kit for 400hp/crank that can be upgraded later to whatever is needed. Really, if we just start talking about 500,550,600 and so on....99% of the potential buyers will go by the way side. Very few people have any idea what its like to tune 500hp.....let alone drive a car with 500hp.
2. At the above mentioned entry level kit....the stock auto trans in the SC will be fine. Again, few have had to deal with the drivetrain issues that 500+hp will bring up. If anything...we could just upgrade the SC trans valvebody and converter and we would have one stout setup without spending boat loads of cash.
I have a 91Supra turbo with over 125k miles on the stock auto trans. My hp levels? 400hp at the crank...dyno tuned. The trans has never been apart....only mod was a Level 10 valve body upgrade and the thing bangs gears like a racecar. Boost levels on this daily driver? 20psi.
So, lets not take this thread into the areas of putting TH400s, T56, whatever into our cars....I for one will not do it. If we want to get behind a turbo/s kit...yes lets start it up. But, 500+ entry level is not for me. I already have another supra in the garage with that kind of power 500range and dont need to go cutting up the SC4.
Lets get another thread going just on tech issues turbo kit only and getting the turbo kits done. Please.
03-22-02, 09:46 PM
#50
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
ToyLexMods, didn't know that was a stock auto w/ L10 valve body in the MA70. That definitely says something for the durability issue. Ethan wants to produce an entry level kit producing around 400-450rwhp (I only speak for him because he is @ TX2K2 right now), as well as the serious kit, we just ended up talking about the extreme end of things for awhile, because some of us want to run a decent number, so the potential of this setup had to be addressed. Provided the plumbing can be worked out, it'll be easy to produce 400+hp with a boosted 1UZ on stock compression without 'cutting the car up.'
- Jon
- Jon
03-23-02, 11:55 AM
#51
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Originally posted by Lex Luthor
ToyLexMods, didn't know that was a stock auto w/ L10 valve body in the MA70. That definitely says something for the durability issue. Ethan wants to produce an entry level kit producing around 400-450rwhp (I only speak for him because he is @ TX2K2 right now), as well as the serious kit, we just ended up talking about the extreme end of things for awhile, because some of us want to run a decent number, so the potential of this setup had to be addressed. Provided the plumbing can be worked out, it'll be easy to produce 400+hp with a boosted 1UZ on stock compression without 'cutting the car up.'
- Jon
ToyLexMods, didn't know that was a stock auto w/ L10 valve body in the MA70. That definitely says something for the durability issue. Ethan wants to produce an entry level kit producing around 400-450rwhp (I only speak for him because he is @ TX2K2 right now), as well as the serious kit, we just ended up talking about the extreme end of things for awhile, because some of us want to run a decent number, so the potential of this setup had to be addressed. Provided the plumbing can be worked out, it'll be easy to produce 400+hp with a boosted 1UZ on stock compression without 'cutting the car up.'
- Jon
03-23-02, 01:40 PM
#52
Was thinking of how a base system could be made to be reliable for less than half the total cost of a tweaked out thing that only a few dedicated tuners would ever get to run for awhile.
This is important,since that extra few thou would take away the reliability without untold hours of development time that many owners are just not going to have.
Also that the plumbing could/should be made to be the same for the base system as it would for a kit that would allow for a large turbo,high boost,intercooler,turbotimer,wastegate,ECU,staged nitrous to be used,and that a just a piggyback ecu on the base(7psi,stock Supra intercooler) system would be nice for some.
Might have possibilities in the kitcar/swap market as well.
Reliability,to me anyways, is a large part of the whole performance thing.
This is important,since that extra few thou would take away the reliability without untold hours of development time that many owners are just not going to have.
Also that the plumbing could/should be made to be the same for the base system as it would for a kit that would allow for a large turbo,high boost,intercooler,turbotimer,wastegate,ECU,staged nitrous to be used,and that a just a piggyback ecu on the base(7psi,stock Supra intercooler) system would be nice for some.
Might have possibilities in the kitcar/swap market as well.
Reliability,to me anyways, is a large part of the whole performance thing.
03-23-02, 02:51 PM
#53
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Lex,
Ok, I would jump in on a 400rwhp base setup. We would need fuel upgrades as follows. Injectors, TT fuel pump and a tuning...ie SAFC. Or AIC would do the job. Still we would need a timing map setup for this above mentioned level. At 400rwhp our autos will be fine....we would just need a valve body upgrade to get rid of the smooth shifing SC4 and make them stronger. Converters....any number of them will work. ....
Yep thats a stock trans in my 91....heck, the SC trans is much beefier than my old MKIII Supra trans...
Ok, I would jump in on a 400rwhp base setup. We would need fuel upgrades as follows. Injectors, TT fuel pump and a tuning...ie SAFC. Or AIC would do the job. Still we would need a timing map setup for this above mentioned level. At 400rwhp our autos will be fine....we would just need a valve body upgrade to get rid of the smooth shifing SC4 and make them stronger. Converters....any number of them will work. ....
Yep thats a stock trans in my 91....heck, the SC trans is much beefier than my old MKIII Supra trans...
03-23-02, 02:57 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
Assuming we threw in a GM or Ford tranny, would a shift kit strengthen the drivetrain or put more wear on it? Lex, do you know if it's possible to retrofit a shift kit into the SC400 tranny? I know they don't design them for use with import cars or luxury cars so it's something we'd have to undertake ourselves.
03-23-02, 10:35 PM
#56
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Max, Ethan's street car has serious power, and yes, a roll cage. I agree that's not for everyone, depends on what you're looking for, some of us are more seriously afflicted with speed disease than others. lex400sc, there is no 'shift kit' available for the SC4 automatic that I know of, if you're referring to check *****, shift sleeves, springs, that sort of $50 kit. You would have to replace the valve body with a reworked unit, like the L10 valve body in ToyLexMods' MA70. Toyomoto also has a kit, and i'm pretty sure Rod Millen has a unit available.
- Jon
- Jon
03-25-02, 02:25 AM
#57
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Originally posted by Bean
ebanks,
do you know how much power twin T3/T4s would be on a 4.0L motor? you're talking at LEAST 800-900rwhp
Twin 16Gs (TD05) would be fine. on a 300zxTT they will make around 600rwhp at high boost levels... and on the 4.0 they will spool very fast
twin 60-1s is WAY too big
with 16Gs or T28s you don't need external wastegates as the internal ones that come with the turbos do just fine; it would save $1000 in wastegate money
Please respond and tell me you're reading this; twin 60-1s would be a big no no... that would be in the 1000-1100rwhp range and spool VERY slowly
imagine a 60-1 spooling on a 2.0L 4cyl
ebanks,
do you know how much power twin T3/T4s would be on a 4.0L motor? you're talking at LEAST 800-900rwhp
Twin 16Gs (TD05) would be fine. on a 300zxTT they will make around 600rwhp at high boost levels... and on the 4.0 they will spool very fast
twin 60-1s is WAY too big
with 16Gs or T28s you don't need external wastegates as the internal ones that come with the turbos do just fine; it would save $1000 in wastegate money
Please respond and tell me you're reading this; twin 60-1s would be a big no no... that would be in the 1000-1100rwhp range and spool VERY slowly
imagine a 60-1 spooling on a 2.0L 4cyl
Bean- This was turbos I would want for a race kit (what I would probably do on the shop car). I would not do this in the street kit I would sell. Twin T3/T4s would spool pretty damn fast in my opinion (I have driven numerous cars with less than 2.0l to spool them and they spooled quick). Twin 60-1s would do okay as well IMHO opinion, and I have ridden in hondas with this turbo on 1.8l and the spool was fine... actually quick, granted it is all personal taste
For a street car I still don't know what turbos I would go with, but rest assured even with those t3/t4s if you put a decent size stall in it it would spool quick... With the 3800 stall in my car last year it drove perfectly fine, and spooled incredibly quick. And imagine a kit coming with twin T3/T4s... Right off the bat you should have a car hitting full boost under 4k rpms, and you could run 5-7psi and move massive cfm on a stock motor, or if you ever built it you could make practically all the power you wanted on race gas, and not even have to upgrade your turbos!My perceptions on power are a bit out of whack though
Like I said, either of those turbos would be in a more expensive race kit with a thick head gasket, fuel upgrades, etc., I am still debating on what to put in a less expensive street kit.
-Ethan
03-25-02, 02:52 AM
#58
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Wow, just read the rest of this. Lots of posts while I was away!
First of all here is some info for people who want more of a basic bolt on kit:
If we do this I plan on making a street kit with 400-450 RWHP. This would be a basic kit. No, it won't be 1/2 the price of the other kit, but 60-75% of the other kit would be nice. The things that would make it cheaper: Smaller turbo(s), smaller wastegate(s) (I refuse to go internal, I am not going to make 1 manifold for one kit, and another for basic kits), no injectors, no head gaskets, single intank instead of twin in tank pumps... Thats all I can think of off the top of my head. Both kits would have all T-Bolt clamps, and hopefully v-band on the wastegate(s) and turbo(s).
PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT AT THIS POINT WE HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED TRYING TO FIT ANYTHING IN A CAR. This is all just throwing ideas around to see what we all want out of this. If it is easier to do twins we will do that, if it is easier to do single then we will do that. If we went single it would be very easy to make it to where you could have a lot of turbo options (similar to SP have the SP57, SP60, SP63, SP66, etc available). I think this would actually be a great solution, and I would actually love to use the SP turbos, but they are a bit more money than your average unit. You would be looking anywhere from $1100-$1500 for the turbo, as opposed to about half of that for a "normal" turbo. For a street car though, and SP57 would be insane! It would flow for 500+ RWHP at max boost, but on pump gas in the basic kit would probably make 400-450 and you would probably have full boost under 3500 RPM, possibly at around 3000! If you had even a small stall in the car you would be full boost as soon as you whacked the throttle!
As far as trannies go, the biggest problem is converters. The stock trans, if built properly, should be able to hold 600 RWHP. However, no one makes a converter that will hold this amount of power.. I was with SP this weekend with there brand new Precision Industries multi plate lock up converters ($1500+), and they didn't get more than a few passes out of them (granted, there cars are making more like 800-900RWHP, but they had the same problems back when they were running smaller turbos as well).
For BIG POWER:
Putting a domestic trans in the car is not a problem. My car has one. You DO have to cut on the firewall, get a driveshaft made, new trans mount, buy an adapter plate and flywheel. This is not cheap up front, however the great thing about domestic trannies is how cheap they are to rebuild if you ever do have a problem. We don't honestly need to get into this right now, unless someone already wants some ridiculous 800+ RWHP car (Oh wait, I do want that).
Anyways, keep the ideas coming, and if you have any specific questions post them here (preferable so everyone can see) or feel free to email me at: turbolexus@mchsi.com
I do have one question: What size are the stock injectors?
If I left anything out let me know, as I just got home from driving 12 hours, and am very tired
-Ethan
First of all here is some info for people who want more of a basic bolt on kit:
If we do this I plan on making a street kit with 400-450 RWHP. This would be a basic kit. No, it won't be 1/2 the price of the other kit, but 60-75% of the other kit would be nice. The things that would make it cheaper: Smaller turbo(s), smaller wastegate(s) (I refuse to go internal, I am not going to make 1 manifold for one kit, and another for basic kits
), no injectors, no head gaskets, single intank instead of twin in tank pumps... Thats all I can think of off the top of my head. Both kits would have all T-Bolt clamps, and hopefully v-band on the wastegate(s) and turbo(s).PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT AT THIS POINT WE HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED TRYING TO FIT ANYTHING IN A CAR. This is all just throwing ideas around to see what we all want out of this. If it is easier to do twins we will do that, if it is easier to do single then we will do that. If we went single it would be very easy to make it to where you could have a lot of turbo options (similar to SP have the SP57, SP60, SP63, SP66, etc available). I think this would actually be a great solution, and I would actually love to use the SP turbos, but they are a bit more money than your average unit. You would be looking anywhere from $1100-$1500 for the turbo, as opposed to about half of that for a "normal" turbo. For a street car though, and SP57 would be insane! It would flow for 500+ RWHP at max boost, but on pump gas in the basic kit would probably make 400-450 and you would probably have full boost under 3500 RPM, possibly at around 3000! If you had even a small stall in the car you would be full boost as soon as you whacked the throttle!
As far as trannies go, the biggest problem is converters. The stock trans, if built properly, should be able to hold 600 RWHP. However, no one makes a converter that will hold this amount of power.. I was with SP this weekend with there brand new Precision Industries multi plate lock up converters ($1500+), and they didn't get more than a few passes out of them (granted, there cars are making more like 800-900RWHP, but they had the same problems back when they were running smaller turbos as well).
For BIG POWER:
Putting a domestic trans in the car is not a problem. My car has one. You DO have to cut on the firewall, get a driveshaft made, new trans mount, buy an adapter plate and flywheel. This is not cheap up front, however the great thing about domestic trannies is how cheap they are to rebuild if you ever do have a problem. We don't honestly need to get into this right now, unless someone already wants some ridiculous 800+ RWHP car (Oh wait, I do want that
).Anyways, keep the ideas coming, and if you have any specific questions post them here (preferable so everyone can see) or feel free to email me at: turbolexus@mchsi.com
I do have one question: What size are the stock injectors?
If I left anything out let me know, as I just got home from driving 12 hours, and am very tired
-Ethan
Last edited by Ebanks; 03-25-02 at 02:56 AM.
03-25-02, 03:30 PM
#59
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
An SP57 on the 1UZ would be awesome on the street, i'm sure you could get away with something like the SP63 or 66 with a converter, and that would be perfection.
- Jon
- Jon