NA-T -- Is it worth the trouble?
02-11-10, 11:24 AM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
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I have been there and done that, you will spend around $2000.00 to go single turbo once you rip the twins out,That's the true and i am not trying to bash you or anything.
For me the Na-t is the best way to go if you have HHP goal anything over 400RWHP.
02-11-10, 12:13 PM
#21
I have used most of them. First map-ecu, then safc 2, currently aem ems.
I plan on getting my car running on a JDM TT ecu I have laying around, Im curious to see how it compares to the ems at my power levels. I would recommend choosing something MAP based, it will be much better in the end.
Yup, you can go straight to single. hardly any downtime, and you dont have to do the headgasket right away if you keep the boost low. Ive been running 9psi about a year on a stock 2jzge put down 330rwhp.
you can spend all that install money on engine management.
I plan on getting my car running on a JDM TT ecu I have laying around, Im curious to see how it compares to the ems at my power levels. I would recommend choosing something MAP based, it will be much better in the end.
But you are still on the Stock twins which will blow at anytime or are already blown
I have been there and done that, you will spend around $2000.00 to go single turbo once you rip the twins out,That's the true and i am not trying to bash you or anything.
For me the Na-t is the best way to go if you have HHP goal anything over 400RWHP.
I have been there and done that, you will spend around $2000.00 to go single turbo once you rip the twins out,That's the true and i am not trying to bash you or anything.
For me the Na-t is the best way to go if you have HHP goal anything over 400RWHP.
you can spend all that install money on engine management.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 02-11-10 at 12:23 PM.
02-12-10, 04:14 AM
#25
na ecu has no reference for positive pressure built into its fuel and timing maps
once you utilize a piggyback to try and control fuel to go into the unknown territory things change rapidly
stock ecu has avery narrow range of adjustments in closed loop mode and if you dont get your piggyback settings 100% perfect to emulate this range with short term and long term fuel trims ecu will fight you and override the piggyback settings making driving in vac a total nightmare
then theres timing control.. again stock na ecu has no real ref for positive pressure so when you go into boost any noise picked up by stock knock sensors and stock ecu only has what info is in its lookup maps to compensate and wants to pull and advance timing at the wrong points making it unrealiable
i have been there done that with piggybacks and WILL NEVER EVER USE PIGGYS ON ANYTHING I BUILD PERIOD .. its just not worth the trouble
on a na-t setup having total control of fuel and timing is the only way to go , it just gives you a solid platform to utilize and its scaleable meaning as your thirst for power increases you can make the necc adjustments for larger turbo/injectors etc etc
and as a bonus , no worries about check engine lights ..you dont use any of that stuff anymore
your car solely runs on coolant temp sensor, map sensor, tps,iat and depending on your tuner your wideband for just idle feedback.. all other crap gets taken out
you should see my harness .. once i removed all uncessary stuf the actual diameter of my harness is probably about 1/4 inch around
02-12-10, 10:01 AM
#26
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02-12-10, 11:11 AM
#28
haha, my engine runs on hopes and wishes too..
seriously what lexforlife said is accurate. if the stock ecu gets confused (which can happen quite easily), it can easily throw in just enough timing and fueling changes to put you in the range of possible engine detonation. the only way to avoid the fueling swings with the safc is to run it pig rich, and now your talking really poor mpg.
I ran the same tune basically for a few months but a few times I got in the situation where the ecu would try and learn something and I would start a WOT pull to 10 psi (my full boost at the time) and the motor would start to randomly knock while building boost and a second after it would just go bam like something loud detonating in the exhaust system. I am almost positive the ecu did some whacky timing adjustments cause my wideband was dead on (its always plugged in on my a pillar). I get out of the car, reset the ecu, and boost to 10 psi no problem with the same tune. my engine was fine but i I wouldnt ever try that again, if the boost was higher it would be totally done for.
luckily the 2jz is a quite hardy motor under a bar of boost, even on stock compression.
I would suggest researching about using a TT ecu. its a little complicated at first but much cheaper than a standalone (which is also complicated)
seriously what lexforlife said is accurate. if the stock ecu gets confused (which can happen quite easily), it can easily throw in just enough timing and fueling changes to put you in the range of possible engine detonation. the only way to avoid the fueling swings with the safc is to run it pig rich, and now your talking really poor mpg.
I ran the same tune basically for a few months but a few times I got in the situation where the ecu would try and learn something and I would start a WOT pull to 10 psi (my full boost at the time) and the motor would start to randomly knock while building boost and a second after it would just go bam like something loud detonating in the exhaust system. I am almost positive the ecu did some whacky timing adjustments cause my wideband was dead on (its always plugged in on my a pillar). I get out of the car, reset the ecu, and boost to 10 psi no problem with the same tune. my engine was fine but i I wouldnt ever try that again, if the boost was higher it would be totally done for.
luckily the 2jz is a quite hardy motor under a bar of boost, even on stock compression.
I would suggest researching about using a TT ecu. its a little complicated at first but much cheaper than a standalone (which is also complicated)
Last edited by Ali SC3; 02-12-10 at 11:17 AM.
02-12-10, 12:19 PM
#29
there is nothing wrong with na-t, provided you dont cut corners. If your going to get a used turbo, get one that is a good brand to start(turbonetics, greddy, precision, etc.), that has been well taken care of with ZERO shaft play.
If your only planning 5-6 psi, you dont need much to have a reliable setup, just keep an eye on your AFR's, use quality parts (no ebay bov's or wastegates cause they do tend to leak). I have been na-t for some miles now, daily driven, and have had no issues at all and am prepping as we speak to go to the next step and make more power with minimal effort, and its not costing much at all..keep your eyes open for ashtray's build thread, and later my new build thread.
90% of the people complaining about na-t, either didnt know what they were doing, boosted an engine that wasnt healthy enough for it, or cut corners and used cheap parts, or just flat out did something wrong (ie-tuning, cheap i/c couplers, old HG, etc.) but if you would like some help, or have any questions feel free to PM me.
If your only planning 5-6 psi, you dont need much to have a reliable setup, just keep an eye on your AFR's, use quality parts (no ebay bov's or wastegates cause they do tend to leak). I have been na-t for some miles now, daily driven, and have had no issues at all and am prepping as we speak to go to the next step and make more power with minimal effort, and its not costing much at all..keep your eyes open for ashtray's build thread, and later my new build thread.
90% of the people complaining about na-t, either didnt know what they were doing, boosted an engine that wasnt healthy enough for it, or cut corners and used cheap parts, or just flat out did something wrong (ie-tuning, cheap i/c couplers, old HG, etc.) but if you would like some help, or have any questions feel free to PM me.
02-12-10, 02:58 PM
#30
there is nothing wrong with na-t, provided you dont cut corners. If your going to get a used turbo, get one that is a good brand to start(turbonetics, greddy, precision, etc.), that has been well taken care of with ZERO shaft play.
If your only planning 5-6 psi, you dont need much to have a reliable setup, just keep an eye on your AFR's, use quality parts (no ebay bov's or wastegates cause they do tend to leak). I have been na-t for some miles now, daily driven, and have had no issues at all and am prepping as we speak to go to the next step and make more power with minimal effort, and its not costing much at all..keep your eyes open for ashtray's build thread, and later my new build thread.
90% of the people complaining about na-t, either didnt know what they were doing, boosted an engine that wasnt healthy enough for it, or cut corners and used cheap parts, or just flat out did something wrong (ie-tuning, cheap i/c couplers, old HG, etc.) but if you would like some help, or have any questions feel free to PM me.
If your only planning 5-6 psi, you dont need much to have a reliable setup, just keep an eye on your AFR's, use quality parts (no ebay bov's or wastegates cause they do tend to leak). I have been na-t for some miles now, daily driven, and have had no issues at all and am prepping as we speak to go to the next step and make more power with minimal effort, and its not costing much at all..keep your eyes open for ashtray's build thread, and later my new build thread.
90% of the people complaining about na-t, either didnt know what they were doing, boosted an engine that wasnt healthy enough for it, or cut corners and used cheap parts, or just flat out did something wrong (ie-tuning, cheap i/c couplers, old HG, etc.) but if you would like some help, or have any questions feel free to PM me.
lol