NA-T guys, what gaps are you running on your plugs?
03-10-10, 09:59 PM
#16
k well perhaps ill reset it...but if i do so, and the ecu decides to completely pull a 180, then the current tune will go to crap? right now my safc is pumped up real high. i havent reset the ecu once since ive gone na-t
edit: what were the steps to resetting the ecu?
edit: what were the steps to resetting the ecu?
03-11-10, 08:02 AM
#18
don't freak out, its probably just off by a small amount.
the stock ecu is smart enough to correct for settings that are slightly off, but if your settings are really off in one load area and the ecu compensates, it just threw off the fuel for all the other load points, and you get into a nasty back and forth cycle.
if you have stock injectors you shouldnt have anything on your low throttle settings. set the tps switchover for high throttle at a spot where boost starts to kick in on your car and adjust the high throttle settings until you get a safe AFR ~ 11.7-12.5.
Its best to tune these adjustments right after resetting the ecu.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-11-10 at 08:09 AM.
03-11-10, 08:23 AM
#20
I agree with SC51, and when iridiums snap off they do damage, unlike copper tips.
ashtray, did you ever mount a catch can? If you are still using the stock maf in blowthrough, sometimes it will run lean cause the engine is sucking in unmetered air through the crankcase if your pcv is still hooked up to the intake manifold. I had that problem with my safc, it would take a bit for the ecu to get used to that extra air and would read as lean for a little while, most noticable at idle where the engine requires a small amount of air.
its really not a huge deal to be a little lean at idle for a while.. as long as the car is still idling. lean idle is most noticeable on a hot start but should go away. one of the side affects of a blowthrough setup. if you had the maf in front of the turbo (drawthrough) you could plumb the cranckcase inbetween the maf and the front of the turbo so all the air is metered, but then you have to recirculate your bov and worry about boost leaks.
ashtray, did you ever mount a catch can? If you are still using the stock maf in blowthrough, sometimes it will run lean cause the engine is sucking in unmetered air through the crankcase if your pcv is still hooked up to the intake manifold. I had that problem with my safc, it would take a bit for the ecu to get used to that extra air and would read as lean for a little while, most noticable at idle where the engine requires a small amount of air.
its really not a huge deal to be a little lean at idle for a while.. as long as the car is still idling. lean idle is most noticeable on a hot start but should go away. one of the side affects of a blowthrough setup. if you had the maf in front of the turbo (drawthrough) you could plumb the cranckcase inbetween the maf and the front of the turbo so all the air is metered, but then you have to recirculate your bov and worry about boost leaks.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-11-10 at 08:32 AM.
03-11-10, 09:37 AM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ca
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reference:
http://www.densoiridium.com/faq.php (last question)
http://www.ngk.com/glossary.asp?kw=P...20Gapping&pt=1
http://www.ngk.com/glossaryImage.asp?imgID=71
03-11-10, 10:55 AM
#23
you didnt address the damage part at all.
when gapping an iridium you have one shot, so you are right you cant twist em over and over again.. but if you honestly believe that even the first time you move the tip that it doesn't get weakend at all, then I don't know what to tell you.
more importantly than that, people think they can run iridiums forever, but in our turbocharged 2j's any type of plug will wear down quicker than intended, and if you snap off an iridum in your combustion chamber your probably going to damage your head/block. I don't think its worth the extra money and risk of cylinder wall damage, which is possible if you already have the mentality that they will last a really long time.
as for copper plugs, they are much softer and melt easier, which means if one breaks off it is much less likely to cause engine damage, cause everything in your engine is stronger than copper. sometimes its good to have a weak link.
I used to support iridums for the ease, but I realized the easy/more expensive way is not necessarily the best for performance, and sometimes costs you more down the road.
when gapping an iridium you have one shot, so you are right you cant twist em over and over again.. but if you honestly believe that even the first time you move the tip that it doesn't get weakend at all, then I don't know what to tell you.
more importantly than that, people think they can run iridiums forever, but in our turbocharged 2j's any type of plug will wear down quicker than intended, and if you snap off an iridum in your combustion chamber your probably going to damage your head/block. I don't think its worth the extra money and risk of cylinder wall damage, which is possible if you already have the mentality that they will last a really long time.
as for copper plugs, they are much softer and melt easier, which means if one breaks off it is much less likely to cause engine damage, cause everything in your engine is stronger than copper. sometimes its good to have a weak link.
I used to support iridums for the ease, but I realized the easy/more expensive way is not necessarily the best for performance, and sometimes costs you more down the road.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-11-10 at 11:01 AM.
03-11-10, 04:38 PM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ca
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you didnt address the damage part at all.
when gapping an iridium you have one shot, so you are right you cant twist em over and over again.. but if you honestly believe that even the first time you move the tip that it doesn't get weakend at all, then I don't know what to tell you.
more importantly than that, people think they can run iridiums forever, but in our turbocharged 2j's any type of plug will wear down quicker than intended, and if you snap off an iridum in your combustion chamber your probably going to damage your head/block. I don't think its worth the extra money and risk of cylinder wall damage, which is possible if you already have the mentality that they will last a really long time.
as for copper plugs, they are much softer and melt easier, which means if one breaks off it is much less likely to cause engine damage, cause everything in your engine is stronger than copper. sometimes its good to have a weak link.
I used to support iridums for the ease, but I realized the easy/more expensive way is not necessarily the best for performance, and sometimes costs you more down the road.
when gapping an iridium you have one shot, so you are right you cant twist em over and over again.. but if you honestly believe that even the first time you move the tip that it doesn't get weakend at all, then I don't know what to tell you.
more importantly than that, people think they can run iridiums forever, but in our turbocharged 2j's any type of plug will wear down quicker than intended, and if you snap off an iridum in your combustion chamber your probably going to damage your head/block. I don't think its worth the extra money and risk of cylinder wall damage, which is possible if you already have the mentality that they will last a really long time.
as for copper plugs, they are much softer and melt easier, which means if one breaks off it is much less likely to cause engine damage, cause everything in your engine is stronger than copper. sometimes its good to have a weak link.
I used to support iridums for the ease, but I realized the easy/more expensive way is not necessarily the best for performance, and sometimes costs you more down the road.
First, I gather from what you are saying here, that you believe the ground electrodes will break off from flexing them enough to gap them...is that correct? I honestly don't know how much flexing you've required in the past to arrive at proper gap, but seriously, it was like a tweak here and there for me; certainly nothing that was going to fatigue the metal to the point of breakage. I guess ANY ground electrode will break off eventually if you flex it back and forth enough times.
Second, I also gather from what you are saying, that a ground electrode that snaps off of a copper plug isn't as bad as a ground electrode from an iridium plug (again, if I am understanding you correctly). To this I say, not really. The point is rather moot because the ground electrode on some iridiums is the same as the ground electrodes on a copper plug...nickel coated; on others, it may be platinum covered. Either way, that's not a piece of metal I want in my engine regardless. The preponderance of the iridium failures which damaged engines have been from the CENTER electrode failures which ARE made with iridium!! BTW, do you have any pics of all these broken ground electrodes? I'd like to see them.
Third, (if I understand you correctly) it sounds like your assumption of what my expectation of an iridium plug's life expectancy in a turbo application is, is rather inflated. I never said that they'd last a "really long time". My expectation is about 100 - 150% longer life. If coppers are lasting 4-5K, then maybe 8-12K (depending). SO, as far as them falling apart in that short of a period, I just don't see it. Remember, these plugs do run (seemingly) forever in regular na cars... OEM equipped and backed by manufacturer's warranties. IDK, guess I'll "risk" it
Seriously though, I'm not looking for a pissing contest here, I just think iridiums get a needlessly bad rap from a lot of careless installation. That is all. Peace bro.
03-11-10, 07:50 PM
#25
Would your average car shop know that iridium plugs shouldnt be flexed so much when gapped? Idk, but my car has a great tune, new rotor and cap, the new plugs and .28mm gap, oil change...and its smoking like a POS ***** fughka. Could a broken electrode cause this?? I know my head gasket is fine, the radiator fluid and oil are all in fine condition.
03-11-10, 07:53 PM
#26
I agree with SC51, and when iridiums snap off they do damage, unlike copper tips.
ashtray, did you ever mount a catch can? If you are still using the stock maf in blowthrough, sometimes it will run lean cause the engine is sucking in unmetered air through the crankcase if your pcv is still hooked up to the intake manifold. I had that problem with my safc, it would take a bit for the ecu to get used to that extra air and would read as lean for a little while, most noticable at idle where the engine requires a small amount of air.
its really not a huge deal to be a little lean at idle for a while.. as long as the car is still idling. lean idle is most noticeable on a hot start but should go away. one of the side affects of a blowthrough setup. if you had the maf in front of the turbo (drawthrough) you could plumb the cranckcase inbetween the maf and the front of the turbo so all the air is metered, but then you have to recirculate your bov and worry about boost leaks.
ashtray, did you ever mount a catch can? If you are still using the stock maf in blowthrough, sometimes it will run lean cause the engine is sucking in unmetered air through the crankcase if your pcv is still hooked up to the intake manifold. I had that problem with my safc, it would take a bit for the ecu to get used to that extra air and would read as lean for a little while, most noticable at idle where the engine requires a small amount of air.
its really not a huge deal to be a little lean at idle for a while.. as long as the car is still idling. lean idle is most noticeable on a hot start but should go away. one of the side affects of a blowthrough setup. if you had the maf in front of the turbo (drawthrough) you could plumb the cranckcase inbetween the maf and the front of the turbo so all the air is metered, but then you have to recirculate your bov and worry about boost leaks.
03-11-10, 07:55 PM
#27
good2go, didn't mean to sound like the mentality thing was directed to you. you obviously know alot on the subject. its just I hear all the time people saying how they never need to change their plugs cause they have iridiums (on an n/a car), and then they apply the same thought to their boosted car.
Im not against Iridiums, I was just trying to say there is a risk involved with running them with high boost that the OP should know about. whatever part thats actually iridium could damage your engine if you forget to eventually change them out.
And thanks for the info, I understand it better now.
you need to recirculate your blow off valve when its in drawthrough. check out the ssqv.
Im not against Iridiums, I was just trying to say there is a risk involved with running them with high boost that the OP should know about. whatever part thats actually iridium could damage your engine if you forget to eventually change them out.
And thanks for the info, I understand it better now.
you need to recirculate your blow off valve when its in drawthrough. check out the ssqv.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-11-10 at 08:07 PM.
03-12-10, 09:45 AM
#29
if you have an SSQV you need the recirculating adapter for the front of it.
you can make your car run better than a blowthrough IMO with this type of BOV.
And the best part is you won't have to change much, but you muffle the cool BOV sound.
If you want to do it.
1) move maf in front of turbo after a pipe, and put a straight pipe where maf used to be.
2) On the pipe between the maf and the turbo you connect 2 hoses; (A) the recirc hose from the BOV, (B) the hose from your crankcase (you can have a catchcan inline with this hose if you want)
3) make sure all your couplers and IC piping is solid, as in no leaks. use reinforced silicone couplers and real T clamps if you cant get it all welded up.
Now you basically have it setup like a stock US 7m-gte.
your safc tune will change some, but overall it will run better if you get it working this way cause the maf doesnt have to ever see any boost... A KVF maf cannot read boost anyways, but it can do a pretty darn good job of telling you exactly how much air entered the turbo.
you can make your car run better than a blowthrough IMO with this type of BOV.
And the best part is you won't have to change much, but you muffle the cool BOV sound.
If you want to do it.
1) move maf in front of turbo after a pipe, and put a straight pipe where maf used to be.
2) On the pipe between the maf and the turbo you connect 2 hoses; (A) the recirc hose from the BOV, (B) the hose from your crankcase (you can have a catchcan inline with this hose if you want)
3) make sure all your couplers and IC piping is solid, as in no leaks. use reinforced silicone couplers and real T clamps if you cant get it all welded up.
Now you basically have it setup like a stock US 7m-gte.
your safc tune will change some, but overall it will run better if you get it working this way cause the maf doesnt have to ever see any boost... A KVF maf cannot read boost anyways, but it can do a pretty darn good job of telling you exactly how much air entered the turbo.