Ashtrays NA-T problem/help thread
03-13-10, 04:15 PM
#31
yup..... initially I misdiagnosed it as a stuck fuel injector....after wasting time and $$ buying a set of injectors and installing them only to have the same problem, I did what I should have done in the first place and got my noid light set out and checked injector pulse....number 5 was wide open, no pulse (noid light stayed lit). Thankfully it didn't wash down the cylinder.
03-15-10, 01:24 PM
#32
edit: since you are in drawthrough you do have a small leak where air can come in through the crank case if you have a breather on it like I mentioned earlier. You have to give the ecu a few drive cycles to compensate for this air leak. this is the reason why the base settings run lean when you reset the ecu. its not dangerous, just let the ecu sort itself out before confusing it.
Last edited by ashtray; 03-17-10 at 09:28 AM.
03-17-10, 05:46 PM
#34
Yeah thats pretty much the idea. your actually gonna have to drive it some for it to learn, even if its idling lean. its really not a big deal as long as its lean only on idle. Ive had my na-t idling as lean as 15.5 to 16 afr and on hot starts when the intercooler is heat soaked the engine can go as lean as 17 afr without any stumbling.
the air leak will hardly play a factor anywhere but idle because its flow is limited by the pcv and as airflow increases the overall % of air due to the leak decreases.
at idle you have the least airflow, so the leak causes the air to be off by a larger %.
you can actually eliminate this with a catchcan setup. probably make your car run better and cleaner.
you would run both the crankcase and pcv to a catchcan, and then run a line to the turbo intake pipe.
no more unmetered air. Brilliant!!
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-17-10 at 05:50 PM.
03-18-10, 12:28 AM
#35
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bad turbo seals cause smoke! what injectors are you runing? Misfire could be from a number of things, plug gap, bad injector, timing, sensors, head gasket, spark plug o-ring.
SAFC could be hooked up wrong
SAFC could be hooked up wrong
03-18-10, 11:04 AM
#36
sorry, didn't see the thread pop up for a while.
Yeah thats pretty much the idea. your actually gonna have to drive it some for it to learn, even if its idling lean. its really not a big deal as long as its lean only on idle. Ive had my na-t idling as lean as 15.5 to 16 afr and on hot starts when the intercooler is heat soaked the engine can go as lean as 17 afr without any stumbling.
the air leak will hardly play a factor anywhere but idle because its flow is limited by the pcv and as airflow increases the overall % of air due to the leak decreases.
at idle you have the least airflow, so the leak causes the air to be off by a larger %.
you can actually eliminate this with a catchcan setup. probably make your car run better and cleaner.
you would run both the crankcase and pcv to a catchcan, and then run a line to the turbo intake pipe.
no more unmetered air. Brilliant!!
Yeah thats pretty much the idea. your actually gonna have to drive it some for it to learn, even if its idling lean. its really not a big deal as long as its lean only on idle. Ive had my na-t idling as lean as 15.5 to 16 afr and on hot starts when the intercooler is heat soaked the engine can go as lean as 17 afr without any stumbling.
the air leak will hardly play a factor anywhere but idle because its flow is limited by the pcv and as airflow increases the overall % of air due to the leak decreases.
at idle you have the least airflow, so the leak causes the air to be off by a larger %.
you can actually eliminate this with a catchcan setup. probably make your car run better and cleaner.
you would run both the crankcase and pcv to a catchcan, and then run a line to the turbo intake pipe.
no more unmetered air. Brilliant!!
Edit: that little nipple on the exhaust side of the motor with a breather filter...thats my pcv(also known as the crankcase??) Are there 2?
The turbo is really almost new. Stock injectors. Im almost positive that number of things are not the issue. BUT! Thanks for those ideas.
Last edited by ashtray; 03-18-10 at 11:25 AM.
03-18-10, 03:04 PM
#37
The crankcase is the one on the passenger side which you most likely have a breather on right now. you will notice its just a straight pipe into the valvecover.
The PCV is the Purple thing on the drivers side which is connected to the intake manifold. its is not just a straight pipe, its more like a complicated check valve which allows air to go from the valvecover into the manifold, but not the other way (when you boost).
So in stock configuration the intake manifold vacuum sucks the bad air out of the crankcase through the PCV. this air has to be replaced with clean air which is normally sucked in from the cranckcase tube that was connected to your stock intake pipe (This air is metered air). Now that you are turbo and you have a breather on the crankcase tube, when air is sucked through the PCV now (wether it is contaminated or not) it is all unmetered air.
the solution is to connect both of these to a vacuum source before the turbo so that the contaminated air is evacuated and is fed back into the engine all happily metered.
The catch can just lets you filter out the oil from the air before feeding it back into your engine which is good for a number of reasons.
As for connecting it to the catch can, you can make a third hole or get a catch can which has 2 in and 1 out. You could also T the 2 into the 1 in port, but be sure it is sufficiently large as ANY restriction will lead to a build up of pressure in the crankcase and you could blow seals and possibly your turbo because the drail line wont drain properly.. etc.. etc..
If you have a map sensor setup you can just run with the stock PCV connected and a breather or catchcan setup on the passenger side.
If you have a drawthrough maf setup you can run the stock PCV connected and a catchcan setup on the passenger side, where it is fed back pre turbo but after the maf.
If you have a blowthrough maf setup, you should technically feed both back in pre turbo.
Im exhausted now...
The PCV is the Purple thing on the drivers side which is connected to the intake manifold. its is not just a straight pipe, its more like a complicated check valve which allows air to go from the valvecover into the manifold, but not the other way (when you boost).
So in stock configuration the intake manifold vacuum sucks the bad air out of the crankcase through the PCV. this air has to be replaced with clean air which is normally sucked in from the cranckcase tube that was connected to your stock intake pipe (This air is metered air). Now that you are turbo and you have a breather on the crankcase tube, when air is sucked through the PCV now (wether it is contaminated or not) it is all unmetered air.
the solution is to connect both of these to a vacuum source before the turbo so that the contaminated air is evacuated and is fed back into the engine all happily metered.
The catch can just lets you filter out the oil from the air before feeding it back into your engine which is good for a number of reasons.
As for connecting it to the catch can, you can make a third hole or get a catch can which has 2 in and 1 out. You could also T the 2 into the 1 in port, but be sure it is sufficiently large as ANY restriction will lead to a build up of pressure in the crankcase and you could blow seals and possibly your turbo because the drail line wont drain properly.. etc.. etc..
If you have a map sensor setup you can just run with the stock PCV connected and a breather or catchcan setup on the passenger side.
If you have a drawthrough maf setup you can run the stock PCV connected and a catchcan setup on the passenger side, where it is fed back pre turbo but after the maf.
If you have a blowthrough maf setup, you should technically feed both back in pre turbo.
Im exhausted now...
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-18-10 at 03:16 PM.
03-18-10, 10:50 PM
#38
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you said it but it deff sounds like your runnin to to rich.. are you tuning with just the safc? Im not 100% on wat thats capable of tuning but it should be the same as the vafc.. these things really suck for tuning a turbo car. if ne thing id say retard the timing and back down on the fuel
i know people run into problems with the safc hookin up the air flow signal wires wrong.. also ground is a big problem on these systems..
How is it on cold starts?
what i like to do is drop the fuel to n ideal afr retard the timing and adjust to my liking from there
im beat other wise id double check my post but give me a lil more info if u could maybe a sound clip?.. i realize you probly gave everything throughout the thread but i dont wanna search all night
btw how is the afr through the rpm range
i know people run into problems with the safc hookin up the air flow signal wires wrong.. also ground is a big problem on these systems..
How is it on cold starts?
what i like to do is drop the fuel to n ideal afr retard the timing and adjust to my liking from there
im beat other wise id double check my post but give me a lil more info if u could maybe a sound clip?.. i realize you probly gave everything throughout the thread but i dont wanna search all night
btw how is the afr through the rpm range
Last edited by JazzPro; 03-18-10 at 10:53 PM.
03-19-10, 10:45 AM
#41
Thanks, I hope so also...
Hopefully progress will be made today, Ill be going to the shop in about an hour or so to see how she generally is running...if she's doing good, Im bringing her home, then Ill do the catch can lines here and Ill take pics of that. Check PM ALI!
Hopefully progress will be made today, Ill be going to the shop in about an hour or so to see how she generally is running...if she's doing good, Im bringing her home, then Ill do the catch can lines here and Ill take pics of that. Check PM ALI!
03-19-10, 12:37 PM
#42
you said it but it deff sounds like your runnin to to rich.. are you tuning with just the safc? Im not 100% on wat thats capable of tuning but it should be the same as the vafc.. these things really suck for tuning a turbo car. if ne thing id say retard the timing and back down on the fuel
i know people run into problems with the safc hookin up the air flow signal wires wrong.. also ground is a big problem on these systems..
How is it on cold starts?
what i like to do is drop the fuel to n ideal afr retard the timing and adjust to my liking from there
im beat other wise id double check my post but give me a lil more info if u could maybe a sound clip?.. i realize you probly gave everything throughout the thread but i dont wanna search all night
btw how is the afr through the rpm range
i know people run into problems with the safc hookin up the air flow signal wires wrong.. also ground is a big problem on these systems..
How is it on cold starts?
what i like to do is drop the fuel to n ideal afr retard the timing and adjust to my liking from there
im beat other wise id double check my post but give me a lil more info if u could maybe a sound clip?.. i realize you probly gave everything throughout the thread but i dont wanna search all night
btw how is the afr through the rpm range
03-19-10, 01:10 PM
#43
Just got word from the shop that they fixed a leak on the turbo and now its smoking even more
(the leak was from the connection to the manifold)...maybe its just burning off whatever was there..idk. Skeptical to retune because it was running good with turbodremz's tune. Wastegate is covered in oil.
(the leak was from the connection to the manifold)...maybe its just burning off whatever was there..idk. Skeptical to retune because it was running good with turbodremz's tune. Wastegate is covered in oil.
03-19-10, 05:56 PM
#44
Just got word from the shop that they fixed a leak on the turbo and now its smoking even more
(the leak was from the connection to the manifold)...maybe its just burning off whatever was there..idk. Skeptical to retune because it was running good with turbodremz's tune. Wastegate is covered in oil.
(the leak was from the connection to the manifold)...maybe its just burning off whatever was there..idk. Skeptical to retune because it was running good with turbodremz's tune. Wastegate is covered in oil.
If your wastegate is covered in oil than most likely the drain flange or line is leaking (could be the feed but you would notice it easier), and as soon as it hits something hot it lets off a plume of smoke which is basically right underneath the turbo and it looks like the turbo is smoking.
If you have 4an lines on your feed line you may want to consider stepping down to a 3an to help with the flow. 4an flows a huge amount of oil.
If you don't route your pcv and crankcase hoses correctly you can build pressure in the crankcase which puts pressure in the oil pan, they need to see vacuum or be very open to air. your oil drain cannot drain oil into a pressurized compartment so the oil literally cooks in the lines and inside your turbo, and eventually leaks out the gaskets on the flange or whatever's the weakest link.
Don't get discouraged, I made literally ever mistake in the book when I did it too. the first month after I finished my build I couldn't even drive the car.
Since then it's been great though.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-19-10 at 06:02 PM.
