The Great 1JZ vs 2JZGTE vs NA-T Debate Thread
01-19-11, 10:06 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (44)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland /Germantown
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Come guys where are all the 2jz guys we need more vote........
This dude tell me that "na-t is lame" how dare you say something like this you never even drove an na-T SC before, just enjoy your 1jzgte and keep 2jzna-t out of your month please.
This dude tell me that "na-t is lame" how dare you say something like this you never even drove an na-T SC before, just enjoy your 1jzgte and keep 2jzna-t out of your month please.
Last edited by 99SC42; 01-19-11 at 10:09 AM.
01-19-11, 10:43 AM
#19
maybe he is right about the intakes, I mean those stock 2jzgte intake manifolds do look pretty sharp in my rearview mirror 
and yes it does take me an hour and a half to change my sparkplugs. *quality time* i say
and yes it does take me an hour and a half to change my sparkplugs. *quality time* i say
Last edited by Ali SC3; 01-19-11 at 10:46 AM.
. I wanted to run a certain 1.5jz Green SC but it didn't happen.
01-19-11, 11:46 AM
#22
Interesting question of cost. I'll leave out any cross platform needs that are the same for the options and go with the specifics. For Na-t you need:
Turbo kit - $2500+ (done right and off the shelf with no fab needed)
Fuel - $600+
Electronics -$500+ for a piggyback
TT Headgasket -$160
$3760... more than a 2jz-gte, and with the GTE you can at least sell your stock motor for something. Plus let's just assume you're staying auto the TT trans that will come with your motor is stronger than the NA one so that's a slight advantage.
Now you still have a distributor. You still have a crossing intake manifold. You still have a smaller flowing head.
Cost difference of the engine of a 2jz/1jz? Maybe $400 for a good clean motor. The wiring needs etc are still there. The difference is that with a 2jz there are already LHD factory made wiring harnesses available that you can pick up for a few hundred clean and used and hook up a factory ECU. At the end of the day there are a lot of offsetting costs between a 1j and 2j, and the 2j outperforms in every way including long term maintenance costs with being able to pick up just about anything you could need for that motor from Napa haha. So...
Turbo kit - $2500+ (done right and off the shelf with no fab needed)
Fuel - $600+
Electronics -$500+ for a piggyback
TT Headgasket -$160
$3760... more than a 2jz-gte, and with the GTE you can at least sell your stock motor for something. Plus let's just assume you're staying auto the TT trans that will come with your motor is stronger than the NA one so that's a slight advantage.
Now you still have a distributor. You still have a crossing intake manifold. You still have a smaller flowing head.
Cost difference of the engine of a 2jz/1jz? Maybe $400 for a good clean motor. The wiring needs etc are still there. The difference is that with a 2jz there are already LHD factory made wiring harnesses available that you can pick up for a few hundred clean and used and hook up a factory ECU. At the end of the day there are a lot of offsetting costs between a 1j and 2j, and the 2j outperforms in every way including long term maintenance costs with being able to pick up just about anything you could need for that motor from Napa haha. So...
01-19-11, 12:11 PM
#23
^ ur comparison is apples to oranges..
lets just say na-t vs stock gte
stock gte 1800 + shipping seems to be about what they are nowadays..so lets say 2100 shipped.
wiring harness..i havent personally seen one sc300 compatible for under 700..sending to dr tweak will run you at least that or better...2800 already. and its not even in and running yet. if you install your self and use some old 2jzge parts like oil pan and what not because more then likely you are getting an aristo and change ur water pump etc..you still need a fmic lets go cheap and buy ebay..another 100 ..need piping..lets go ebay..another 100?...
bov? 50-100 for a cheapo?...so ur at least at 3100 and still not even installed..lets say ur the mechanically inclined type and you can handle the rest yourself..you have over 3000 into it..you are on STOCK boost under 300whp.
na-t ....you can go numerous ways. 1) xspower most complete kit 1800 bucks..ya not everything is perfect but say you are mechanically inclined like above..and you have a kit you may need a few things for so lets round up to 2000..you still need at least an safc ~200 bucks ...2200 and your boosting 300-330whp and i bet it will be faster then the stock gte.
ya u have dist and "ugly" manifold ..but both are proven to do very high hp numbers and you still have at least 1000 left over to do whatever you wish to..you could of lowered the comp by using tt hg 200 bucks and do it your self..another 150 for some arp head studs.
and thats saying you do it yourself..
if you have someone else do it..you're looking at , at least 5k for a 2jzgte swap installed running and still..stock ceramic twins boost cut speedometer cut..dont forget all the little extras...
so even by urself you have a 2jzgte pushing less then 300whp in stock form..you cant go over 112mph unless you spend another 100 for that and another 100 for boost cut(not saying you have to have higher boost for over 112 but lets be real if you have a gte you are going to want more boost right?..)
and if you make anything over 400whp..you'll still have to go single, still have to upgrade fuel tranny etc etc..in the end ..na-t would be cheaper and do the same thing even including a ffim and cop.
lets just say na-t vs stock gte
stock gte 1800 + shipping seems to be about what they are nowadays..so lets say 2100 shipped.
wiring harness..i havent personally seen one sc300 compatible for under 700..sending to dr tweak will run you at least that or better...2800 already. and its not even in and running yet. if you install your self and use some old 2jzge parts like oil pan and what not because more then likely you are getting an aristo and change ur water pump etc..you still need a fmic lets go cheap and buy ebay..another 100 ..need piping..lets go ebay..another 100?...
bov? 50-100 for a cheapo?...so ur at least at 3100 and still not even installed..lets say ur the mechanically inclined type and you can handle the rest yourself..you have over 3000 into it..you are on STOCK boost under 300whp.
na-t ....you can go numerous ways. 1) xspower most complete kit 1800 bucks..ya not everything is perfect but say you are mechanically inclined like above..and you have a kit you may need a few things for so lets round up to 2000..you still need at least an safc ~200 bucks ...2200 and your boosting 300-330whp and i bet it will be faster then the stock gte.
ya u have dist and "ugly" manifold ..but both are proven to do very high hp numbers and you still have at least 1000 left over to do whatever you wish to..you could of lowered the comp by using tt hg 200 bucks and do it your self..another 150 for some arp head studs.
and thats saying you do it yourself..
if you have someone else do it..you're looking at , at least 5k for a 2jzgte swap installed running and still..stock ceramic twins boost cut speedometer cut..dont forget all the little extras...
so even by urself you have a 2jzgte pushing less then 300whp in stock form..you cant go over 112mph unless you spend another 100 for that and another 100 for boost cut(not saying you have to have higher boost for over 112 but lets be real if you have a gte you are going to want more boost right?..)
and if you make anything over 400whp..you'll still have to go single, still have to upgrade fuel tranny etc etc..in the end ..na-t would be cheaper and do the same thing even including a ffim and cop.
01-19-11, 12:15 PM
#24
Honestly I like the 2jz-gte just as much as I like the 2jz-ge.
If you want to have a bit of fun on the twins and drop in a gte its a really good option.
If you want to go that extra distance and really push some boost on a single, it is much cheaper and just as effective to na-t. the money saved from not having to buy a $1800 motor will cover your aem ems and a FFIM.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 01-19-11 at 12:20 PM.
01-19-11, 12:19 PM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (44)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland /Germantown
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Ok let me go with the gte
$1795 engine and 2100 shipped to your door
$700 harness conversion if you can't do it yourself or don't know how to.
$800 if you wanna do it right alteast that's how i do it: in maintenance WP, TB, cams seals, crank seal, tensioner, thermostat, PCV valve, Valve cover gasket, Oil pump o ring, Oil pump, RTV sealer, Oil pan O ring, 6 spark plugs, rear main seal.
And this is on the SC not the supra right you can't use a TT harness on the SC because the Body plugs don't match.
Let say $400 for fuel with stock fuel rail and FPR it works fine up to 500rwhp.
Here is the thing if i just did 90k service on my engine i will not pull it out for a gte and spend another $800 for maintenance parts.
Again don't get me wrong i love both 2jz na or gte but no 1jz here.
$1795 engine and 2100 shipped to your door
$700 harness conversion if you can't do it yourself or don't know how to.
$800 if you wanna do it right alteast that's how i do it: in maintenance WP, TB, cams seals, crank seal, tensioner, thermostat, PCV valve, Valve cover gasket, Oil pump o ring, Oil pump, RTV sealer, Oil pan O ring, 6 spark plugs, rear main seal.
And this is on the SC not the supra right you can't use a TT harness on the SC because the Body plugs don't match.
Let say $400 for fuel with stock fuel rail and FPR it works fine up to 500rwhp.
Here is the thing if i just did 90k service on my engine i will not pull it out for a gte and spend another $800 for maintenance parts.
Again don't get me wrong i love both 2jz na or gte but no 1jz here.
01-19-11, 12:20 PM
#26
Pole Position
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont think anyone can say one is better than the other overall. They each have their pro's and con's.... yes, even the 2JZGTE has its cons. Its all personal preference, My 1J will be perfect for my specific application. Just my 2 cents.
01-19-11, 12:32 PM
#27
Interesting question of cost. I'll leave out any cross platform needs that are the same for the options and go with the specifics. For Na-t you need:
Turbo kit - $2500+ (done right and off the shelf with no fab needed)
Fuel - $600+
Electronics -$500+ for a piggyback
TT Headgasket -$160
$3760... more than a 2jz-gte, and with the GTE you can at least sell your stock motor for something. Plus let's just assume you're staying auto the TT trans that will come with your motor is stronger than the NA one so that's a slight advantage.
Now you still have a distributor. You still have a crossing intake manifold. You still have a smaller flowing head.
Cost difference of the engine of a 2jz/1jz? Maybe $400 for a good clean motor. The wiring needs etc are still there. The difference is that with a 2jz there are already LHD factory made wiring harnesses available that you can pick up for a few hundred clean and used and hook up a factory ECU. At the end of the day there are a lot of offsetting costs between a 1j and 2j, and the 2j outperforms in every way including long term maintenance costs with being able to pick up just about anything you could need for that motor from Napa haha. So...
Turbo kit - $2500+ (done right and off the shelf with no fab needed)
Fuel - $600+
Electronics -$500+ for a piggyback
TT Headgasket -$160
$3760... more than a 2jz-gte, and with the GTE you can at least sell your stock motor for something. Plus let's just assume you're staying auto the TT trans that will come with your motor is stronger than the NA one so that's a slight advantage.
Now you still have a distributor. You still have a crossing intake manifold. You still have a smaller flowing head.
Cost difference of the engine of a 2jz/1jz? Maybe $400 for a good clean motor. The wiring needs etc are still there. The difference is that with a 2jz there are already LHD factory made wiring harnesses available that you can pick up for a few hundred clean and used and hook up a factory ECU. At the end of the day there are a lot of offsetting costs between a 1j and 2j, and the 2j outperforms in every way including long term maintenance costs with being able to pick up just about anything you could need for that motor from Napa haha. So...
Seriously man, where are you getting these assumptions? You CANNOT do a complete and PROPER 2JZGTE swap for under $3760 into an SC. There's wiring, engine maintenance (making sure you have a properly working engine that doesn't leak and has good turbos to begin with.... it's a cat in a bad deal), there's the necessary exhaust work, and plenty of other small details that need addressing if you wanna have a good swap.
01-19-11, 12:46 PM
#29
$3760 is more than a 2JZGTE swap? Dude....if that's true I am doing a GTE swap then...
Seriously man, where are you getting these assumptions? You CANNOT do a complete and PROPER 2JZGTE swap for under $3760 into an SC. There's wiring, engine maintenance (making sure you have a properly working engine that doesn't leak and has good turbos to begin with.... it's a cat in a bad deal), there's the necessary exhaust work, and plenty of other small details that need addressing if you wanna have a good swap.
Seriously man, where are you getting these assumptions? You CANNOT do a complete and PROPER 2JZGTE swap for under $3760 into an SC. There's wiring, engine maintenance (making sure you have a properly working engine that doesn't leak and has good turbos to begin with.... it's a cat in a bad deal), there's the necessary exhaust work, and plenty of other small details that need addressing if you wanna have a good swap.
Just talking parts that get you a basic turbo man, trying to get as apple to apples as possible. I would like someone who actually owns a reliable NA-T kit with 20k+ miles on it to chime in and let us know what was spent. There's wiring and engine maintenance and exhaust work etc needed in an NA-T as well. I omitted any overall between the two swaps. ALL options need an intercooler. ALL options need exhaust work. ALL options need wiring and engine maintenance. So I'm throwing out those factors because they're universal.
Also $2200 for an NA-T isn't even close to an accurate cost for a RELIABLE complete setup that isn't going to junk out your car. This is the same logic as people saying they can do a 1j for under 2k.... I can confirm for a FACT that a stock GTE with just a boost controller and exhaust (yes you need that for an na-t as well) is faster than an xspower Na-t out of the box and far more reliable. I have experience with a lot of different setup. About anything that's been done I've worked with.
Realistically ANY of these setups should run you between 5-6k when done properly with minimal cost variation. So take cost out of the equation because, honestly it's negligible
Last edited by Klaus; 01-19-11 at 12:59 PM.
01-19-11, 01:11 PM
#30
theres really not any wiring to get an na-t running except for plugging up an aem ems and installing a map sensor and IAT which takes about 30 minutes. its really nothing compared to getting a gte running in an SC unless you know how to do the ge->gte harness conversion or you want to mess with extending a JDM harness (1J) or body plugs on a supra harness (mini nightmare).
the wiring on a gte is the main reason i chose not to do a swap on an SC!! you save 6-800 right there by not paying to get your harness done, the 2jz-ge is already installed with a harness in the car
ive been running mine for about 15k.
turbo kit - $1000 (more like 1500 these days though)
aem ems - $1200
injectors + pump - $400
coilpacks and 7m cps - $200
TT headgasket / Arp headstuds / waterpump / timing belt / all gaskets- $800
So for a total of 3600 I can turn up the boost as high as a gte on a completely refreshed motor with added benefit of a full standalone, no ugly distributor, and an ignition system that does not require a DLI. Only reason my boost isn't set high is my w58..
the wiring on a gte is the main reason i chose not to do a swap on an SC!! you save 6-800 right there by not paying to get your harness done, the 2jz-ge is already installed with a harness in the car
ive been running mine for about 15k.
turbo kit - $1000 (more like 1500 these days though)
aem ems - $1200
injectors + pump - $400
coilpacks and 7m cps - $200
TT headgasket / Arp headstuds / waterpump / timing belt / all gaskets- $800
So for a total of 3600 I can turn up the boost as high as a gte on a completely refreshed motor with added benefit of a full standalone, no ugly distributor, and an ignition system that does not require a DLI. Only reason my boost isn't set high is my w58..
Last edited by Ali SC3; 01-19-11 at 01:16 PM.