The Great 1JZ vs 2JZGTE vs NA-T Debate Thread
01-19-11, 01:30 PM
#31
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Na-t
NEW TT HG $120
New Turbo $700
NEW Manifold $150
WG $300
BOV $100
BINBOil feed and return $100
BINBFMIC with piping $300
BNIB ARP head studs if you choose to $120
Aristo ECU $150
Injetcors $150 RX7 550cc
Map sensor and AIT sensor $130
3" DP $80 brand new
IS300 Ignitor $50
Coils $100
AEM WB $150 used
MBC $50
SAFC if you don't wanna run stock Aristo boost $150
So for $3k i can have 100% reliable na-t setup without going EMS and it will make more power than your stock gte at this point all i need is a trans.
I can delete the distributor and not worry about my Turbo not clearing the cap.
I can do EMS for extra $1100 - aristo ECu -map and AIT sensor.
NEW TT HG $120
New Turbo $700
NEW Manifold $150
WG $300
BOV $100
BINBOil feed and return $100
BINBFMIC with piping $300
BNIB ARP head studs if you choose to $120
Aristo ECU $150
Injetcors $150 RX7 550cc
Map sensor and AIT sensor $130
3" DP $80 brand new
IS300 Ignitor $50
Coils $100
AEM WB $150 used
MBC $50
SAFC if you don't wanna run stock Aristo boost $150
So for $3k i can have 100% reliable na-t setup without going EMS and it will make more power than your stock gte at this point all i need is a trans.
I can delete the distributor and not worry about my Turbo not clearing the cap.
I can do EMS for extra $1100 - aristo ECu -map and AIT sensor.
01-19-11, 01:54 PM
#32
Just talking parts that get you a basic turbo man, trying to get as apple to apples as possible. I would like someone who actually owns a reliable NA-T kit with 20k+ miles on it to chime in and let us know what was spent. There's wiring and engine maintenance and exhaust work etc needed in an NA-T as well. I omitted any overall between the two swaps. ALL options need an intercooler. ALL options need exhaust work. ALL options need wiring and engine maintenance. So I'm throwing out those factors because they're universal.
Also $2200 for an NA-T isn't even close to an accurate cost for a RELIABLE complete setup that isn't going to junk out your car. This is the same logic as people saying they can do a 1j for under 2k.... I can confirm for a FACT that a stock GTE with just a boost controller and exhaust (yes you need that for an na-t as well) is faster than an xspower Na-t out of the box and far more reliable. I have experience with a lot of different setup. About anything that's been done I've worked with.
Realistically ANY of these setups should run you between 5-6k when done properly with minimal cost variation. So take cost out of the equation because, honestly it's negligible
Also $2200 for an NA-T isn't even close to an accurate cost for a RELIABLE complete setup that isn't going to junk out your car. This is the same logic as people saying they can do a 1j for under 2k.... I can confirm for a FACT that a stock GTE with just a boost controller and exhaust (yes you need that for an na-t as well) is faster than an xspower Na-t out of the box and far more reliable. I have experience with a lot of different setup. About anything that's been done I've worked with.
Realistically ANY of these setups should run you between 5-6k when done properly with minimal cost variation. So take cost out of the equation because, honestly it's negligible
01-19-11, 02:16 PM
#33
@ klaus
i also bet the gte was not at stock boost, and if you raced for more then 10 seconds you'd hit top speed and the na-t would pass you up..and was this a supra vs sc na-t or supra vs supra na-t? what boost levels on each?..all this matters..i can guarantee that if you put an sc 2jzgte stock vs a basic na-t with safc stock comp/injectors everything..it will beat it no problem....id almost bet your xs power kit na-t was using tt hg? or the boost on the 2jzgte was turned up to atleast 14-15psi
also you dont "need" exhaust..you will need some work to get the dp mated to stock exhaust but it can and has been down..the exhaust is plenty big enough for low 300whp
i also bet the gte was not at stock boost, and if you raced for more then 10 seconds you'd hit top speed and the na-t would pass you up..and was this a supra vs sc na-t or supra vs supra na-t? what boost levels on each?..all this matters..i can guarantee that if you put an sc 2jzgte stock vs a basic na-t with safc stock comp/injectors everything..it will beat it no problem....id almost bet your xs power kit na-t was using tt hg? or the boost on the 2jzgte was turned up to atleast 14-15psi
also you dont "need" exhaust..you will need some work to get the dp mated to stock exhaust but it can and has been down..the exhaust is plenty big enough for low 300whp
01-19-11, 02:51 PM
#34
You cant win this debate guys. Everyone has their own goals, mechanical abilities, and budget. Each of the engine options given have their place depending on those variables. Better is subjective, or there wouldn't be an argument, so why bother?
I have a 2jzgte, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if it were a 1jzgte. I don't really care for the NA-T unless is it built to the hilt for various reasons already discussed. Even so, if a NA-T makes you happy, have fun with it!
People on here crap all on the 1jz, and some have even swapped them out WELL before realizing their power potential and then called them lame. 600-700hp can be had on a quality singled 1jz with a good tune. Why throw it away and spend TONS of money on a 2jz only to make 450-500hp? But I digress.
They're all Toyota engines in Lexus luxobarges, so its a win, win, win.
I have a 2jzgte, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if it were a 1jzgte. I don't really care for the NA-T unless is it built to the hilt for various reasons already discussed. Even so, if a NA-T makes you happy, have fun with it!
People on here crap all on the 1jz, and some have even swapped them out WELL before realizing their power potential and then called them lame. 600-700hp can be had on a quality singled 1jz with a good tune. Why throw it away and spend TONS of money on a 2jz only to make 450-500hp? But I digress.
They're all Toyota engines in Lexus luxobarges, so its a win, win, win.
01-19-11, 02:59 PM
#35
^ I do agree..that all have there advantages..i still think about 1jz mainly for cosmetics..i really like the look of the 1jz even more so then the 2jzgte...and it has crossed my mine a hundred times to go that route..but at the same time its hard to step downward(it may not seem like it but seriously the 2jzge has a better head and more displacement..however at the same time..a 1jz can make plenty of power without even opening it up.
01-19-11, 03:14 PM
#36
@ klaus
i also bet the gte was not at stock boost, and if you raced for more then 10 seconds you'd hit top speed and the na-t would pass you up..and was this a supra vs sc na-t or supra vs supra na-t? what boost levels on each?..all this matters..i can guarantee that if you put an sc 2jzgte stock vs a basic na-t with safc stock comp/injectors everything..it will beat it no problem....id almost bet your xs power kit na-t was using tt hg? or the boost on the 2jzgte was turned up to atleast 14-15psi
also you dont "need" exhaust..you will need some work to get the dp mated to stock exhaust but it can and has been down..the exhaust is plenty big enough for low 300whp
i also bet the gte was not at stock boost, and if you raced for more then 10 seconds you'd hit top speed and the na-t would pass you up..and was this a supra vs sc na-t or supra vs supra na-t? what boost levels on each?..all this matters..i can guarantee that if you put an sc 2jzgte stock vs a basic na-t with safc stock comp/injectors everything..it will beat it no problem....id almost bet your xs power kit na-t was using tt hg? or the boost on the 2jzgte was turned up to atleast 14-15psi
also you dont "need" exhaust..you will need some work to get the dp mated to stock exhaust but it can and has been down..the exhaust is plenty big enough for low 300whp
01-19-11, 03:24 PM
#37
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For the 2jzgte USDM Turbos hardly fail.... 18psi is doable all day. I would run that if I didnt have 91 PUMP GAS.. -_- JDM Turbos are the faulty ones. at 15psi +
I wouldnt mind a nice NA-T vs my BPU+ GTE. They are both good builds and with enuff care and love are both reliable!
1JZ im sorry never got any love from me =(.
I wouldnt mind a nice NA-T vs my BPU+ GTE. They are both good builds and with enuff care and love are both reliable!
1JZ im sorry never got any love from me =(.
01-19-11, 03:24 PM
#38
its funny my "hypotheticals" are spot on...i said he were probably running a tt hg..he was..i also said you were probably running above stock boost..you were..
theres NO way a stock gte on stock boost would out perform a stock na-t on 9-10psi..and thats not really asking for it as long as the tune is fine..
once again you are comparing apples to oranges..from the different trannysw58 vs v160
and as far as top speed means running stock jdm ecu has a top speed of 112-118 some where in there..some unless another module is ran or some "rigged" way of running it, you wont break that speed.
EDIT: unless you are comparing a usdm version? or ecu..which is NOT what was being discussed in this thread since the typical 2jzgte that you would be able to purchase for ~1800 is a jdm aristo 2jzgte.
and it may sound like a hypothesis but its mathematics really..same car same rear end same tranny ...2jzgte 8.5cr stock boost wont make 300whp or have the tq a 2jzge 10:1cr on ~9psi that has been proven to output right around 330whp....
theres NO way a stock gte on stock boost would out perform a stock na-t on 9-10psi..and thats not really asking for it as long as the tune is fine..
once again you are comparing apples to oranges..from the different trannysw58 vs v160
and as far as top speed means running stock jdm ecu has a top speed of 112-118 some where in there..some unless another module is ran or some "rigged" way of running it, you wont break that speed.
EDIT: unless you are comparing a usdm version? or ecu..which is NOT what was being discussed in this thread since the typical 2jzgte that you would be able to purchase for ~1800 is a jdm aristo 2jzgte.
and it may sound like a hypothesis but its mathematics really..same car same rear end same tranny ...2jzgte 8.5cr stock boost wont make 300whp or have the tq a 2jzge 10:1cr on ~9psi that has been proven to output right around 330whp....
01-19-11, 03:28 PM
#39
I'm not going to debate with anyone cause the USDM 2JZGTE is the king of kings...there's simply no doubt about that.
However I chose the 1JZ for different reasons than most, I guess.
1. it came in the Soarer stock, I wanted to see what the fuss was about
2. it produces an abundance of absolutely fantastically tight sound waves
3. it can produce a **** ton of power
4. its as reliable as the na 2jzge but makes a lot more HP in stock form
5. it's cheap
6. they produced a billion of them
7. parts are cheap, 2JZ parts swap right over
8. the harness work was a lot cheaper than the 2jzgte conversion and I was on a budget
9. I knew this wouldn't be my last swap
10. The 1JZ is 2.5 liters, it gets better gas mileage than the 3.0 motors and I drive 4o highway a day total.
I've driven my 1JZ every day since early 2009 and I've really enjoyed it.
If you REALLY want to be cool. Go for the 1jz or 2jz vvti, now that's cool!
...the cleanest available motors for swaps right now by far are the 1jz vvti
However I chose the 1JZ for different reasons than most, I guess.
1. it came in the Soarer stock, I wanted to see what the fuss was about
2. it produces an abundance of absolutely fantastically tight sound waves
3. it can produce a **** ton of power
4. its as reliable as the na 2jzge but makes a lot more HP in stock form
5. it's cheap
6. they produced a billion of them
7. parts are cheap, 2JZ parts swap right over
8. the harness work was a lot cheaper than the 2jzgte conversion and I was on a budget
9. I knew this wouldn't be my last swap
10. The 1JZ is 2.5 liters, it gets better gas mileage than the 3.0 motors and I drive 4o highway a day total.
I've driven my 1JZ every day since early 2009 and I've really enjoyed it.
If you REALLY want to be cool. Go for the 1jz or 2jz vvti, now that's cool!
...the cleanest available motors for swaps right now by far are the 1jz vvti
Last edited by RyanV; 01-21-11 at 05:50 AM.
01-19-11, 04:54 PM
#42
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when I first did mine I paid about 910 it was a chaser swap that I bought because all the soarer swap were sludge up its either 910 for harness conversion or spend more at the machine shop for rebuild.
Now I will never spend any money for wiring DIM (do It Myself) and at that time their was only a couple manifold on the market for single conversion its hit or miss and I got tired or wasting my money trying to mod the manifold after I spent about 400 + the price of the manifold .then I wanted to go aem but I will also need 350 patch harness that when I said screw this am going 2jz I sold my 1jz and didn't come out pocket to over 5xx rwhp the best move I have ever done so when I say I don't like or don't do 1jz don't get offended .
and I know someone was talking about me not know that the 1jz I capable of 700rwhp, since he knew it had potential why didn't he get one instead he went 2jzgte,,
Now I will never spend any money for wiring DIM (do It Myself) and at that time their was only a couple manifold on the market for single conversion its hit or miss and I got tired or wasting my money trying to mod the manifold after I spent about 400 + the price of the manifold .then I wanted to go aem but I will also need 350 patch harness that when I said screw this am going 2jz I sold my 1jz and didn't come out pocket to over 5xx rwhp the best move I have ever done so when I say I don't like or don't do 1jz don't get offended .
and I know someone was talking about me not know that the 1jz I capable of 700rwhp, since he knew it had potential why didn't he get one instead he went 2jzgte,,
01-19-11, 05:37 PM
#44
its funny my "hypotheticals" are spot on...i said he were probably running a tt hg..he was..i also said you were probably running above stock boost..you were..
theres NO way a stock gte on stock boost would out perform a stock na-t on 9-10psi..and thats not really asking for it as long as the tune is fine..
once again you are comparing apples to oranges..from the different trannysw58 vs v160
and as far as top speed means running stock jdm ecu has a top speed of 112-118 some where in there..some unless another module is ran or some "rigged" way of running it, you wont break that speed.
EDIT: unless you are comparing a usdm version? or ecu..which is NOT what was being discussed in this thread since the typical 2jzgte that you would be able to purchase for ~1800 is a jdm aristo 2jzgte.
and it may sound like a hypothesis but its mathematics really..same car same rear end same tranny ...2jzgte 8.5cr stock boost wont make 300whp or have the tq a 2jzge 10:1cr on ~9psi that has been proven to output right around 330whp....
theres NO way a stock gte on stock boost would out perform a stock na-t on 9-10psi..and thats not really asking for it as long as the tune is fine..
once again you are comparing apples to oranges..from the different trannysw58 vs v160
and as far as top speed means running stock jdm ecu has a top speed of 112-118 some where in there..some unless another module is ran or some "rigged" way of running it, you wont break that speed.
EDIT: unless you are comparing a usdm version? or ecu..which is NOT what was being discussed in this thread since the typical 2jzgte that you would be able to purchase for ~1800 is a jdm aristo 2jzgte.
and it may sound like a hypothesis but its mathematics really..same car same rear end same tranny ...2jzgte 8.5cr stock boost wont make 300whp or have the tq a 2jzge 10:1cr on ~9psi that has been proven to output right around 330whp....
. A 9psi GE with an stock headgasket is capped on its pump gas boost. The TT headgasket was an ADVANTAGE because he was able to run 15psi safely on pump. A Greddy speed cut controller (which BOTH cars had) takes care of the top speed issues. That's hardly a "rigged" way of running it either, that's a pretty accepted method. I'll give you the USDM argument because of the cams and fuel, but the JDM 2js are still more potent out of the box than an xspower na-t. Oh, for reference what do you drive? Have you done any of these swaps?
01-19-11, 05:46 PM
#45
theres really not any wiring to get an na-t running except for plugging up an aem ems and installing a map sensor and IAT which takes about 30 minutes. its really nothing compared to getting a gte running in an SC unless you know how to do the ge->gte harness conversion or you want to mess with extending a JDM harness (1J) or body plugs on a supra harness (mini nightmare).
the wiring on a gte is the main reason i chose not to do a swap on an SC!! you save 6-800 right there by not paying to get your harness done, the 2jz-ge is already installed with a harness in the car
ive been running mine for about 15k.
turbo kit - $1000 (more like 1500 these days though)
aem ems - $1200
injectors + pump - $400
coilpacks and 7m cps - $200
TT headgasket / Arp headstuds / waterpump / timing belt / all gaskets- $800
So for a total of 3600 I can turn up the boost as high as a gte on a completely refreshed motor with added benefit of a full standalone, no ugly distributor, and an ignition system that does not require a DLI. Only reason my boost isn't set high is my w58..
the wiring on a gte is the main reason i chose not to do a swap on an SC!! you save 6-800 right there by not paying to get your harness done, the 2jz-ge is already installed with a harness in the car
ive been running mine for about 15k.
turbo kit - $1000 (more like 1500 these days though)
aem ems - $1200
injectors + pump - $400
coilpacks and 7m cps - $200
TT headgasket / Arp headstuds / waterpump / timing belt / all gaskets- $800
So for a total of 3600 I can turn up the boost as high as a gte on a completely refreshed motor with added benefit of a full standalone, no ugly distributor, and an ignition system that does not require a DLI. Only reason my boost isn't set high is my w58..
I think the big thing though, is that you're right about the NA-t overall being an easier swap for a weekend mechanic. It's something you can do gradually in spare time rather than a full on project like what a swap is. You can take one weekend to pull the head off, replace all the gaskets and seals and belts and put it back together running, then the next weekend install your piping, lines, and intercooler and it will run on the stock ecu at super low boost. Then take another weekend to dial in the electronics. I hear you on this