Invest in w58 and pray? or go r154 / v160
11-28-11, 09:07 AM
#1
Invest in w58 and pray? or go r154 / v160
Looking at my current setup a clutch is going to be the first thing that I need once the 6265 is installed.
Curious what you guys feel is the best method or approach? I've got my eyes on a spec 3+ clutch for 494 shipped. From my research this seems to be the highest torque holding, easiest engagement crankwalk friendly, single disc clutch available for the w58. My concerns though are that regardless of what clutch I get for the w58 it eventually is a ticking time bomb and the money invested in it to hold power is pretty much in the trash after it breaks since a v160 is next on the list.
From your experience is the w58 reliable if driven with caution? My goals are 500whp+... Or am I just rolling the dice?
Or save my money, start slowly investing in a v160, sell the w58 setup to re-coop some of the cost, and invest that 494 shipped I was going to spend on the spec 3+ and invest in an RPS clutch for the v160.
I think already know the answer to this question
but I'm trying to justify that the w58 is a good tranny for 400-450whp if driven with care. Just want to hear from the experiences of you guys.
Ultimately I'm really not trying to drop 5k-7k for the v160 swap, but I'm realizing that you've got to pay to play with this platform.
Curious what you guys feel is the best method or approach? I've got my eyes on a spec 3+ clutch for 494 shipped. From my research this seems to be the highest torque holding, easiest engagement crankwalk friendly, single disc clutch available for the w58. My concerns though are that regardless of what clutch I get for the w58 it eventually is a ticking time bomb and the money invested in it to hold power is pretty much in the trash after it breaks since a v160 is next on the list.
From your experience is the w58 reliable if driven with caution? My goals are 500whp+... Or am I just rolling the dice?
Or save my money, start slowly investing in a v160, sell the w58 setup to re-coop some of the cost, and invest that 494 shipped I was going to spend on the spec 3+ and invest in an RPS clutch for the v160.
I think already know the answer to this question
but I'm trying to justify that the w58 is a good tranny for 400-450whp if driven with care. Just want to hear from the experiences of you guys.Ultimately I'm really not trying to drop 5k-7k for the v160 swap, but I'm realizing that you've got to pay to play with this platform.
11-28-11, 09:16 AM
#2
Looking at my current setup a clutch is going to be the first thing that I need once the 6265 is installed.
Curious what you guys feel is the best method or approach? I've got my eyes on a spec 3+ clutch for 494 shipped. From my research this seems to be the highest torque holding, easiest engagement crankwalk friendly, single disc clutch available for the w58. My concerns though are that regardless of what clutch I get for the w58 it eventually is a ticking time bomb and the money invested in it to hold power is pretty much in the trash after it breaks since a v160 is next on the list.
From your experience is the w58 reliable if driven with caution? My goals are 500whp+... Or am I just rolling the dice?
Or save my money, start slowly investing in a v160, sell the w58 setup to re-coop some of the cost, and invest that 494 shipped I was going to spend on the spec 3+ and invest in an RPS clutch for the v160.
I think already know the answer to this question but I'm trying to justify that the w58 is a good tranny for 400-450whp if driven with care. Just want to hear from the experiences of you guys.
Ultimately I'm really not trying to drop 5k-7k for the v160 swap, but I'm realizing that you've got to pay to play with this platform.
Curious what you guys feel is the best method or approach? I've got my eyes on a spec 3+ clutch for 494 shipped. From my research this seems to be the highest torque holding, easiest engagement crankwalk friendly, single disc clutch available for the w58. My concerns though are that regardless of what clutch I get for the w58 it eventually is a ticking time bomb and the money invested in it to hold power is pretty much in the trash after it breaks since a v160 is next on the list.
From your experience is the w58 reliable if driven with caution? My goals are 500whp+... Or am I just rolling the dice?
Or save my money, start slowly investing in a v160, sell the w58 setup to re-coop some of the cost, and invest that 494 shipped I was going to spend on the spec 3+ and invest in an RPS clutch for the v160.
I think already know the answer to this question
but I'm trying to justify that the w58 is a good tranny for 400-450whp if driven with care. Just want to hear from the experiences of you guys.Ultimately I'm really not trying to drop 5k-7k for the v160 swap, but I'm realizing that you've got to pay to play with this platform.
yes 500+hp regularly on a w58 is like poking dynamite with a stick.
With an r154 you can run 600hp regularly, but even that trans has some oil seal issues.
Save your money, if you are shooting for 500+ you really need to go r154 or v160.
Just wait till QuickSC4 chimes in, he will tell you.
11-28-11, 09:34 AM
#3
yes, w58 is a ticking timebomb over 450hp, 400hp might be fine.
yes 500+hp regularly on a w58 is like poking dynamite with a stick.
With an r154 you can run 600hp regularly, but even that trans has some oil seal issues.
Save your money, if you are shooting for 500+ you really need to go r154 or v160.
Just wait till QuickSC4 chimes in, he will tell you.
yes 500+hp regularly on a w58 is like poking dynamite with a stick.
With an r154 you can run 600hp regularly, but even that trans has some oil seal issues.
Save your money, if you are shooting for 500+ you really need to go r154 or v160.
Just wait till QuickSC4 chimes in, he will tell you.
Problem is the w58 is free, clutch is 500 bucks, and will hold for X amount of time babying it.
Used r154 $300-$400 / 1JZ Bell Housing $340 / $250 shifter extension / 1jz flywheel $275 /$429 aluminum 1piece driveshaft / gs400 rear diff $300 / $500 clutch = about $2,500 for r154 setup and I'm still taking a gamble on the high mileage used r154 + sloppy / notchy shifts from what I've read
V160 is $3k if lucky used / $1k in differential / $400 in driveshaft / $1500-2k in clutch w/ twin disc
So in v160 scenario, 500 bucks in a spec 3+ clutch seems like a much better alternative then $6,000 dollars in a v160 setup but then all I have to worry about is the block failing because the tranny and drivetrain will be stout.
What do you think a low mile w58 setup would resell for realistically?
11-28-11, 09:52 AM
#4
I face the same dilemma, but I plan to give the R154 a shot before shelling out for a v160. I contemplated going straight to the v160, but for a hp goal of 500 I think an R154 would be perfect. Even if you buy the r154 and end up needing to sell it, the demand for them is high, so you could always get back what you put into it. Wait for a deal to pop up on a complete R154 swap. You can find them with bell, clutch etc for 2k or less if you wait.
Low mile W58 with clutch, slave and flywheel could go for 800 or so depending.
Low mile W58 with clutch, slave and flywheel could go for 800 or so depending.
11-28-11, 10:00 AM
#5
I face the same dilemma, but I plan to give the R154 a shot before shelling out for a v160. I contemplated going straight to the v160, but for a hp goal of 500 I think an R154 would be perfect. Even if you buy the r154 and end up needing to sell it, the demand for them is high, so you could always get back what you put into it. Wait for a deal to pop up on a complete R154 swap. You can find them with bell, clutch etc for 2k or less if you wait.
Low mile W58 with clutch, slave and flywheel could go for 800 or so depending.
Low mile W58 with clutch, slave and flywheel could go for 800 or so depending.
I'm starting to think that it'd be a good idea to get an affordable clutch initially for the w58 around 350 shipped like the stage 4 competition clutch, baby it until I'm at the power level or want more than the w58 can hold and then shell out the cash for something better.
11-28-11, 11:10 AM
#7
you dont have to use an old r154 anymore, you can use the solstice transmission that is basically a new r154.
I see them go at yards for $600-800 all the time, and they have upgraded parts so the shifting is all smooth.
It will require the shifter to be modified in a little bit harder way than the mk3 r154, but if you can get that done its a good choice as well.
Dont forget to add labor on installing stuff if you cannot DIY, maybe another ~700 to swap out the clutch on the w58.
You dont want to keep paying labor everytime you change your setup, and the clutch money and labor go down the drain the first time you blow the w58.
If you can do the labor yourself, maybe not a bad idea to drop in a clutch for $4-500 and see how far it gets you.
I see them go at yards for $600-800 all the time, and they have upgraded parts so the shifting is all smooth.
It will require the shifter to be modified in a little bit harder way than the mk3 r154, but if you can get that done its a good choice as well.
Dont forget to add labor on installing stuff if you cannot DIY, maybe another ~700 to swap out the clutch on the w58.
You dont want to keep paying labor everytime you change your setup, and the clutch money and labor go down the drain the first time you blow the w58.
If you can do the labor yourself, maybe not a bad idea to drop in a clutch for $4-500 and see how far it gets you.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 11-28-11 at 11:16 AM.
Trending Topics
11-28-11, 11:32 AM
#9
you dont have to use an old r154 anymore, you can use the solstice transmission that is basically a new r154.
I see them go at yards for $600-800 all the time, and they have upgraded parts so the shifting is all smooth.
It will require the shifter to be modified in a little bit harder way than the mk3 r154, but if you can get that done its a good choice as well.
Dont forget to add labor on installing stuff if you cannot DIY, maybe another ~700 to swap out the clutch on the w58.
You dont want to keep paying labor everytime you change your setup, and the clutch money and labor go down the drain the first time you blow the w58.
If you can do the labor yourself, maybe not a bad idea to drop in a clutch for $4-500 and see how far it gets you.
I see them go at yards for $600-800 all the time, and they have upgraded parts so the shifting is all smooth.
It will require the shifter to be modified in a little bit harder way than the mk3 r154, but if you can get that done its a good choice as well.
Dont forget to add labor on installing stuff if you cannot DIY, maybe another ~700 to swap out the clutch on the w58.
You dont want to keep paying labor everytime you change your setup, and the clutch money and labor go down the drain the first time you blow the w58.
If you can do the labor yourself, maybe not a bad idea to drop in a clutch for $4-500 and see how far it gets you.
I'm not familiar with the solstice r154? I think I recall reading an older thread about it but their were issues if I recall. Any threads on this for reading?
I'm thinking the 350 dollar clutch and pray is my best option at the moment until I decide to crank up the power.
11-28-11, 12:19 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (44)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland /Germantown
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Andrew do it once and be done with it!!! i learned on my own , and the hard way i paid i think $2200 for it but if i would have known that i would ever want more than 500rwhp i wouldn't have bought. that's one thing that i regret .
I could have bought a V160 for that much and the rest will come later , i will upgrade the diff and the clutch at a later time.
I had this conersation with Nate i can't remember his username on here but he is in FL and has a 1jz single turbo.
Sell the W58 while you can and while you can offset some of the cost of what ever trans you decide to go with.
If you don't it will blow up and you will get stuck with a clutch that has 50miles that you can't use and a blown trans. so you will be out of pocket almost $900 .
You can get a V160 for $2100+ depending on the condition just get the GS430 diff and 1 piece dS with the stock PP it will hold 550rwhp with a feramic disc and stock flywheel. Till you can afford and OS Giken or the RPS Twin of tripple .Then Upgrad the diff with a TRD.
Regardless of what trans you go with you will need an LSD at 400rwhp.
If you really wanna go R154 i got some serious R154s fully built ,with OS Giken gear set these are Chaser R154 not the MK3.These will hold 8XXrwhp not that i will trust this trans at 800rwhp anything can happen.
I made over 500rwhp on my Chaser R154 built with MC parts , trans never broke but i distroyed 3 clutch (pressure Plates) I daily drive my car everyday unless it's snowing so alot of people may not have this issue but this is the fact.
150 -160 the tailshaft seal blew out on me a couple timesand the car was all over the place SCARY as hell .
You will have that issue once you start making some serious Power.
I know 3 people that had the same issue ...
I was going to try another R154 but i just couldn't see myself going through the same crap again.
Think about if you was on stock twins and wanted 400rwhp the R154 will be a good buy but by the time you get the correct parts/ do it the right way not halfass the swap you can buy a V160.
Like i said again this from experience , i daily drive my car everyday 365 days a year unless it snows or i break my pressure plate while driving home.
R154 clutches go anywhere from $450-$2700.00 i had a ACT broke a couple PP had 2 covered under warranty but still my nobody wants to buy a used trand with a used single disc clutch lol i won't .
Andrew if you search my name here you will see i was a strong R154 lover till my car started sitting on jack every or so.
I learned alot from my mistakes and others GL on what ever tranny you go with!!!
Some will tell you that the MCrebuild is good for 1200hp not true don't believe that crap lol , Some people never experience they always hear or was told...
Keep us posted
I could have bought a V160 for that much and the rest will come later , i will upgrade the diff and the clutch at a later time.
I had this conersation with Nate i can't remember his username on here but he is in FL and has a 1jz single turbo.
Sell the W58 while you can and while you can offset some of the cost of what ever trans you decide to go with.
If you don't it will blow up and you will get stuck with a clutch that has 50miles that you can't use and a blown trans. so you will be out of pocket almost $900 .
You can get a V160 for $2100+ depending on the condition just get the GS430 diff and 1 piece dS with the stock PP it will hold 550rwhp with a feramic disc and stock flywheel. Till you can afford and OS Giken or the RPS Twin of tripple .Then Upgrad the diff with a TRD.
Regardless of what trans you go with you will need an LSD at 400rwhp.
If you really wanna go R154 i got some serious R154s fully built ,with OS Giken gear set these are Chaser R154 not the MK3.These will hold 8XXrwhp not that i will trust this trans at 800rwhp anything can happen.
I made over 500rwhp on my Chaser R154 built with MC parts , trans never broke but i distroyed 3 clutch (pressure Plates) I daily drive my car everyday unless it's snowing so alot of people may not have this issue but this is the fact.
150 -160 the tailshaft seal blew out on me a couple timesand the car was all over the place SCARY as hell .
You will have that issue once you start making some serious Power.
I know 3 people that had the same issue ...
I was going to try another R154 but i just couldn't see myself going through the same crap again.
Think about if you was on stock twins and wanted 400rwhp the R154 will be a good buy but by the time you get the correct parts/ do it the right way not halfass the swap you can buy a V160.
Like i said again this from experience , i daily drive my car everyday 365 days a year unless it snows or i break my pressure plate while driving home.
R154 clutches go anywhere from $450-$2700.00 i had a ACT broke a couple PP had 2 covered under warranty but still my nobody wants to buy a used trand with a used single disc clutch lol i won't .
Andrew if you search my name here you will see i was a strong R154 lover till my car started sitting on jack every or so.
I learned alot from my mistakes and others GL on what ever tranny you go with!!!
Some will tell you that the MCrebuild is good for 1200hp not true don't believe that crap lol , Some people never experience they always hear or was told...
Keep us posted
11-28-11, 12:29 PM
#11
Andrew do it once and be done with it!!! i learned on my own , and the hard way i paid i think $2200 for it but if i would have known that i would ever want more than 500rwhp i wouldn't have bought. that's one thing that i regret .
I could have bought a V160 for that much and the rest will come later , i will upgrade the diff and the clutch at a later time.
I had this conersation with Nate i can't remember his username on here but he is in FL and has a 1jz single turbo.
Sell the W58 while you can and while you can offset some of the cost of what ever trans you decide to go with.
If you don't it will blow up and you will get stuck with a clutch that has 50miles that you can't use and a blown trans. so you will be out of pocket almost $900 .
You can get a V160 for $2100+ depending on the condition just get the GS430 diff and 1 piece dS with the stock PP it will hold 550rwhp with a feramic disc and stock flywheel. Till you can afford and OS Giken or the RPS Twin of tripple .Then Upgrad the diff with a TRD.
Regardless of what trans you go with you will need an LSD at 400rwhp.
If you really wanna go R154 i got some serious R154s fully built ,with OS Giken gear set these are Chaser R154 not the MK3.These will hold 8XXrwhp not that i will trust this trans at 800rwhp anything can happen.
I made over 500rwhp on my Chaser R154 built with MC parts , trans never broke but i distroyed 3 clutch (pressure Plates) I daily drive my car everyday unless it's snowing so alot of people may not have this issue but this is the fact.
150 -160 the tailshaft seal blew out on me a couple timesand the car was all over the place SCARY as hell .
You will have that issue once you start making some serious Power.
I know 3 people that had the same issue ...
I was going to try another R154 but i just couldn't see myself going through the same crap again.
Think about if you was on stock twins and wanted 400rwhp the R154 will be a good buy but by the time you get the correct parts/ do it the right way not halfass the swap you can buy a V160.
Like i said again this from experience , i daily drive my car everyday 365 days a year unless it snows or i break my pressure plate while driving home.
R154 clutches go anywhere from $450-$2700.00 i had a ACT broke a couple PP had 2 covered under warranty but still my nobody wants to buy a used trand with a used single disc clutch lol i won't .
Andrew if you search my name here you will see i was a strong R154 lover till my car started sitting on jack every or so.
I learned alot from my mistakes and others GL on what ever tranny you go with!!!
Some will tell you that the MCrebuild is good for 1200hp not true don't believe that crap lol , Some people never experience they always hear or was told...
Keep us posted
I could have bought a V160 for that much and the rest will come later , i will upgrade the diff and the clutch at a later time.
I had this conersation with Nate i can't remember his username on here but he is in FL and has a 1jz single turbo.
Sell the W58 while you can and while you can offset some of the cost of what ever trans you decide to go with.
If you don't it will blow up and you will get stuck with a clutch that has 50miles that you can't use and a blown trans. so you will be out of pocket almost $900 .
You can get a V160 for $2100+ depending on the condition just get the GS430 diff and 1 piece dS with the stock PP it will hold 550rwhp with a feramic disc and stock flywheel. Till you can afford and OS Giken or the RPS Twin of tripple .Then Upgrad the diff with a TRD.
Regardless of what trans you go with you will need an LSD at 400rwhp.
If you really wanna go R154 i got some serious R154s fully built ,with OS Giken gear set these are Chaser R154 not the MK3.These will hold 8XXrwhp not that i will trust this trans at 800rwhp anything can happen.
I made over 500rwhp on my Chaser R154 built with MC parts , trans never broke but i distroyed 3 clutch (pressure Plates) I daily drive my car everyday unless it's snowing so alot of people may not have this issue but this is the fact.
150 -160 the tailshaft seal blew out on me a couple timesand the car was all over the place SCARY as hell .
You will have that issue once you start making some serious Power.
I know 3 people that had the same issue ...
I was going to try another R154 but i just couldn't see myself going through the same crap again.
Think about if you was on stock twins and wanted 400rwhp the R154 will be a good buy but by the time you get the correct parts/ do it the right way not halfass the swap you can buy a V160.
Like i said again this from experience , i daily drive my car everyday 365 days a year unless it snows or i break my pressure plate while driving home.
R154 clutches go anywhere from $450-$2700.00 i had a ACT broke a couple PP had 2 covered under warranty but still my nobody wants to buy a used trand with a used single disc clutch lol i won't .
Andrew if you search my name here you will see i was a strong R154 lover till my car started sitting on jack every or so.
I learned alot from my mistakes and others GL on what ever tranny you go with!!!
Some will tell you that the MCrebuild is good for 1200hp not true don't believe that crap lol , Some people never experience they always hear or was told...
Keep us posted
Powerhouse Racing has brand new OEM v160's for 5499.99 right now from Toyota plus shipping. If you less what I can get for my w58 I've got roughly 4800 invested in a brand new v160. The only thing is there is alot of other costs to the swap that are hidden and rack up.
If I could find a used v160 that I trusted for 2100 I would grab it up but usually the ones going for that price are beat up with syncro issues and need a rebuild.
What's eating me up is that when I start totaling up the cost of this build, and then add the cost of the car and now the cost of this potential v160 upgrade I'm pushing near the cost of buying a supra MKIV TT. I know it's still not comparable because it would be a stock mkiv but would hold it's value much better none the less.
11-28-11, 12:51 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (44)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland /Germantown
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Thanks
You don't have to do all at once do the LSD and the upgraded Clutch later down the road.
If you buy one that needs a rebuild for 2100 with the parts and labor you will be at 3100, still cheaper than 4800 and you still have to spend about $500 for the tripod, shifter and misc stuff.
The brand new one doesn't come with the shifter, rods, tripod, brackets none of that .
Yeah i know , we are both in the same boat lol , Actually right now i don't know how much money i spent on my car .I stopped counting 2 months ago.
Just yesterday i was thinking about selling my car again !
and my wife was like " and then what you gonna do?
i said " buy a corolla or something and be done with spending money everyday"
she said "just a buy a Supra"
I said "nope"
she said why
i said "never ending project"
You don't have to do all at once do the LSD and the upgraded Clutch later down the road.
If you buy one that needs a rebuild for 2100 with the parts and labor you will be at 3100, still cheaper than 4800 and you still have to spend about $500 for the tripod, shifter and misc stuff.
The brand new one doesn't come with the shifter, rods, tripod, brackets none of that .
Yeah i know , we are both in the same boat lol , Actually right now i don't know how much money i spent on my car .I stopped counting 2 months ago.
Just yesterday i was thinking about selling my car again !
and my wife was like " and then what you gonna do?
i said " buy a corolla or something and be done with spending money everyday"
she said "just a buy a Supra"
I said "nope"
she said why
i said "never ending project"
11-28-11, 01:07 PM
#13
LOL^ Yeah I tried selling my kit a week or so ago and realized after getting low balled on every part that I'm just gonna throw it on and enjoy the car. I go back and forth as well because I know this project will never end and I'll end up with a 50k invested powerhouse car that I can't sell for a fraction of what I invested.
I didn't think the shifter assembly was so much but then again that would be all the misc parts adding up!
I didn't think the shifter assembly was so much but then again that would be all the misc parts adding up!
11-28-11, 02:24 PM
#15
the op in that thread on page 6 said he thinks the stock solstice location is 4" behind where it would be on a soarer r154 w/tripod shifter.
Labor is not an issue, I try and do everything myself minus welding fab work.
I'm not familiar with the solstice r154? I think I recall reading an older thread about it but their were issues if I recall. Any threads on this for reading?
I'm thinking the 350 dollar clutch and pray is my best option at the moment until I decide to crank up the power.
I'm not familiar with the solstice r154? I think I recall reading an older thread about it but their were issues if I recall. Any threads on this for reading?
I'm thinking the 350 dollar clutch and pray is my best option at the moment until I decide to crank up the power.
only the first few pages have all the info. where it goes into talks about other cars engines its all nonsense after that.
you have to register to see the pictures.
Were talking about a Lexus SC chassis guys, Its never a question of how much its worth afterwards.
The only sane way to look at it is how much fun it provides you for what you have into it.
Even a Supra TT will loose some value if its heavily modified, as in you wont get back what you put into it unless you part it out and return to stock.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 11-28-11 at 02:34 PM.