Is my Transmission shop trying to pull one on me ??
02-09-12, 07:33 AM
#1
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Is my Transmission shop trying to pull one on me ??
A week ago my SC400 99 AUTO transmission stopped working . I took it to a shop and was told my transmissions front pump went bad and it needs to be replaced ( the cost is around $400). The transmission shop then proceeded to tell me that since im replacing the pump my Torque Converter must also be replaced , and since that's being done they said my transmission as a whole needs to be rebuilt. It just seems like excessive work for just it being a front pump issue. Is this true ?Do all those things need to be changed and replaced in order for my transmission to function properly? I never had issues with the tranny and one day , I can switch into all the gears but the car wouldn't move. it would start moving a little when its still cold but after it warms up the engine just revs up and the car doesnt move. Why are these mechanics saying i need to replace my entire drive train to fix this? are they trying to get one up on me ? They said the total overhaul would be $2,200.00 . Any advice would be appreciated , im going to see them today any specific questions i can ask to see if theyre being honest or deceitful.
Make: Lexus
Model: Sc400
Year: 1999
Engine: 4.0 vvti
also
Any reason why they are telling me my transmission , torque converter and front pump all need to be replaced and rebuilt. Before the transmission died there was no noise no grinding, the car was standing for about two months, i took it out it drove for about a mile then all of a sudden my engine would rev and the car would move less and less, but i didn't hear grinding noises, i didnt smell anything , eventually i managed to land her at a parking spot. The car shifts all the way from P - 3 easily but doesn't engage . Ive had this car for 40K miles and have always taken care of the mechanics. NEVER had transmission issues. Is the mechanics shop trying to get one over on me? If it is the pump like they say ,is all that other work required to be done?? ( a brand new TC replaced, and tranny rebuilt )Can the pump just be replaced by itself if it is broken ...
Or is it better just purchasing a used transmission with lower mileage and replacing it that way?
Please any and all answers will be appreciated
Make: Lexus
Model: Sc400
Year: 1999
Engine: 4.0 vvti
also
Any reason why they are telling me my transmission , torque converter and front pump all need to be replaced and rebuilt. Before the transmission died there was no noise no grinding, the car was standing for about two months, i took it out it drove for about a mile then all of a sudden my engine would rev and the car would move less and less, but i didn't hear grinding noises, i didnt smell anything , eventually i managed to land her at a parking spot. The car shifts all the way from P - 3 easily but doesn't engage . Ive had this car for 40K miles and have always taken care of the mechanics. NEVER had transmission issues. Is the mechanics shop trying to get one over on me? If it is the pump like they say ,is all that other work required to be done?? ( a brand new TC replaced, and tranny rebuilt )Can the pump just be replaced by itself if it is broken ...
Or is it better just purchasing a used transmission with lower mileage and replacing it that way?
Please any and all answers will be appreciated
02-09-12, 07:53 AM
#2
You have had it for 40k, so does that mean the car has 40k on it, or what? I would hope that at 40k the transmission is not giving you these issues, but mechanical stuff does fail randomly...
If they are a reputable shop and offer any kind of warranty, $2200 is a very fair price for a total overhaul including converter. I would not want to go to the trouble of dropping a transmission with any appreciable amount of mileage just to replace one component in it. I think recommending a total overhaul is good advice in this case. They are probably recommending you replace the other components due to the fact that it is impossible to clean those parts out completely once they are contaminated with debris.
You could always go the junk yard route as you said, and may get lucky and find a good transmission for hundreds instead of thousands. Or, you may get a transmission with its own set of issues and have to start all over again. How lucky do you feel?
If they are a reputable shop and offer any kind of warranty, $2200 is a very fair price for a total overhaul including converter. I would not want to go to the trouble of dropping a transmission with any appreciable amount of mileage just to replace one component in it. I think recommending a total overhaul is good advice in this case. They are probably recommending you replace the other components due to the fact that it is impossible to clean those parts out completely once they are contaminated with debris.
You could always go the junk yard route as you said, and may get lucky and find a good transmission for hundreds instead of thousands. Or, you may get a transmission with its own set of issues and have to start all over again. How lucky do you feel?
Last edited by stockhatch; 02-09-12 at 08:07 AM.
02-09-12, 08:59 AM
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Stock thanks for your reply ,
I asked this question to a online mechanic and he voiced his concerns below and said these are the questions i should find answers too.
Theyre giving me a one year warranty , but i feel like if the pump i the culprit like they say it is , then why cant we just replace the pump , why does my perfectly normal tray needs and overhaul , not to mention they told me that and please correct them if this is BS " EVERYTIME YOU REPLACE A FORWARD PUMP YOU NEED TO REPLACE THE TC"
Im thinking if tat is the case i mind as well get a lextreme or a Dragon and have them replace it with something worthwhile.
Can anyone help me with the following questions also ...
1.What should i look for when i come to the shop to see where the problem lies. Should the pump smell?? Should the transmission gears , springs look a specific way when they need to be replaced?
2.can i use my existing torque converter , if i decide to by a used transmission?
3.If the pump is the culprit does the torque converter need to be replaced? does the transmission need to be rebuilt , flushed and refilled with toyota fluid only .
4.Do all these things need to be done just to get this working or can the pump just be replaced with a new one?
5.If they charged me $45 to diagnose take the issue and that included them removing the tranny and opening it up , then should that also include them assembling and installing the transmission back into the car if i dont decide to do anything?
**6. How can i tell them as yuo would, if you were there in your words, that the work they say my car needs makes no sense and is extremely excessive...
Im trying to understand what type of tests a transmission shop would do to find out that the pump is bad , so that when i get there i can ask them to show me how they arrived at their estimate ...
I asked this question to a online mechanic and he voiced his concerns below and said these are the questions i should find answers too.
Theyre giving me a one year warranty , but i feel like if the pump i the culprit like they say it is , then why cant we just replace the pump , why does my perfectly normal tray needs and overhaul , not to mention they told me that and please correct them if this is BS " EVERYTIME YOU REPLACE A FORWARD PUMP YOU NEED TO REPLACE THE TC"
Im thinking if tat is the case i mind as well get a lextreme or a Dragon and have them replace it with something worthwhile.
Can anyone help me with the following questions also ...
1.What should i look for when i come to the shop to see where the problem lies. Should the pump smell?? Should the transmission gears , springs look a specific way when they need to be replaced?
2.can i use my existing torque converter , if i decide to by a used transmission?
3.If the pump is the culprit does the torque converter need to be replaced? does the transmission need to be rebuilt , flushed and refilled with toyota fluid only .
4.Do all these things need to be done just to get this working or can the pump just be replaced with a new one?
5.If they charged me $45 to diagnose take the issue and that included them removing the tranny and opening it up , then should that also include them assembling and installing the transmission back into the car if i dont decide to do anything?
**6. How can i tell them as yuo would, if you were there in your words, that the work they say my car needs makes no sense and is extremely excessive...
Im trying to understand what type of tests a transmission shop would do to find out that the pump is bad , so that when i get there i can ask them to show me how they arrived at their estimate ...
02-09-12, 09:04 AM
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I'd have to agree with hatch on this $2,200 is a good price for converter and overhaul, If you have high mileage 200,000 +/- 30,000 range it wouldn't be a bad idea especially if you have no record of the fluid ever being replaced. I am one of those better safe then sorry kinda guys. Junkyard for a a tans can work but being that you cant read the miles on the car being pulled from and not knowing the service history on said tans can cause some issue but its worth a try to if you know somebody willing to crack it open for cheap.
*EDIT* Another reason they are trying to sell rebuild and TC is bad fluid filled with debris can cause some problems in the TC but where the real issue lies is within this
All those little tiny passages can get clogged with debris causing pore shifting and restrictions of fluid which ultimately can lead to killing a front pump due to high/low pressure. Because the front pump is bad mostly is a sign of problems else where, a bad pump just being a symptom.
*EDIT* Another reason they are trying to sell rebuild and TC is bad fluid filled with debris can cause some problems in the TC but where the real issue lies is within this
All those little tiny passages can get clogged with debris causing pore shifting and restrictions of fluid which ultimately can lead to killing a front pump due to high/low pressure. Because the front pump is bad mostly is a sign of problems else where, a bad pump just being a symptom.
Last edited by 95Sexus; 02-09-12 at 09:12 AM.
02-09-12, 09:21 AM
#5
Get a second opinion because it's easy for a shop to take a customer for a ride on transmission work.
I worked in a trans shop for years and saw how easy it can be to do this 1st hand but lucky for me the shop I worked at was ran by honest people so we would get cars in from other area shops that would hose the customer for thousands and I really felt bad for those customers.
I worked in a trans shop for years and saw how easy it can be to do this 1st hand but lucky for me the shop I worked at was ran by honest people so we would get cars in from other area shops that would hose the customer for thousands and I really felt bad for those customers.
02-09-12, 10:49 AM
#6
My opinion is that this is legit. I had same trans behavior and had to have it rebuilt plus new tc.
They may have couched the situation oddly with the front pump comment at the beginning.
Decent price and transmission behavior equates to diagnosis.
They may have couched the situation oddly with the front pump comment at the beginning.
Decent price and transmission behavior equates to diagnosis.
02-09-12, 11:11 AM
#7
The shop can do a few tests on the trans, such as verifying that the solenoids energize, and checking line pressure/s. They should also sample the fluid and check it for color, smell, clutch material and other contamination.
I would agree that you could possibly substitute an aftermarket converter "while they are in there", but be sure it will work well with the stock computer shift schedules and lockup strategy. You have an OBDII car which may see an aftermarket converter as a "malfunction" and trip the CEL. This could make getting an inspection impossible depending on your state's emissions laws.
I would agree that you could possibly substitute an aftermarket converter "while they are in there", but be sure it will work well with the stock computer shift schedules and lockup strategy. You have an OBDII car which may see an aftermarket converter as a "malfunction" and trip the CEL. This could make getting an inspection impossible depending on your state's emissions laws.
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02-09-12, 11:51 AM
#8
1.What should i look for when i come to the shop to see where the problem lies. Should the pump smell?? Should the transmission gears , springs look a specific way when they need to be replaced?
Even if it can be said, it's hard to realize what is damaged if you haven't seen a good one before. Burnt/used transmission fluid will stink and it's usually red. The darker it is the more material it's moving around (usually bad)
2.can i use my existing torque converter , if i decide to by a used transmission?
Yes you can if you have verified yours isn't damaged. If the fluid was bad it's a good idea to replace it being that it will only cost 100-300 bucks vs a new transmission.
3.If the pump is the culprit does the torque converter need to be replaced? does the transmission need to be rebuilt , flushed and refilled with toyota fluid only .
If the pump is the cause, it only means that it the original issue. Do to neglect or lack of symptoms it can quickly burn damage parts do to lack of lubrication and excessive heat. Think of an engine without oil or cooling system... It will run for a bit but it will over heat and lock up. With out a tear down it would be hard to tell what damage was done to the walls, head, or any other component in there. Just by adding oil and the cooling system it will not resolve the damage that was caused by the engine locking up.
4.Do all these things need to be done just to get this working or can the pump just be replaced with a new one?
It sounds like more damage was done.
5.If they charged me $45 to diagnose take the issue and that included them removing the tranny and opening it up , then should that also include them assembling and installing the transmission back into the car if i dont decide to do anything?
No. If you authorize for the transmission to come down, I believe they can charge you the time it took to pull it off and put it back in even if you don't get the work done. Working on different things not just cars.... I can say sometimes you don't know the extent of the damage until you open it up.
**6. How can i tell them as yuo would, if you were there in your words, that the work they say my car needs makes no sense and is extremely excessive...
small issues can become massive issues.
My question to you is, If you don't trust them why take it to them? If you don't believe them take it to a different shop.
Even if it can be said, it's hard to realize what is damaged if you haven't seen a good one before. Burnt/used transmission fluid will stink and it's usually red. The darker it is the more material it's moving around (usually bad)
2.can i use my existing torque converter , if i decide to by a used transmission?
Yes you can if you have verified yours isn't damaged. If the fluid was bad it's a good idea to replace it being that it will only cost 100-300 bucks vs a new transmission.
3.If the pump is the culprit does the torque converter need to be replaced? does the transmission need to be rebuilt , flushed and refilled with toyota fluid only .
If the pump is the cause, it only means that it the original issue. Do to neglect or lack of symptoms it can quickly burn damage parts do to lack of lubrication and excessive heat. Think of an engine without oil or cooling system... It will run for a bit but it will over heat and lock up. With out a tear down it would be hard to tell what damage was done to the walls, head, or any other component in there. Just by adding oil and the cooling system it will not resolve the damage that was caused by the engine locking up.
4.Do all these things need to be done just to get this working or can the pump just be replaced with a new one?
It sounds like more damage was done.
5.If they charged me $45 to diagnose take the issue and that included them removing the tranny and opening it up , then should that also include them assembling and installing the transmission back into the car if i dont decide to do anything?
No. If you authorize for the transmission to come down, I believe they can charge you the time it took to pull it off and put it back in even if you don't get the work done. Working on different things not just cars.... I can say sometimes you don't know the extent of the damage until you open it up.
**6. How can i tell them as yuo would, if you were there in your words, that the work they say my car needs makes no sense and is extremely excessive...
small issues can become massive issues.
My question to you is, If you don't trust them why take it to them? If you don't believe them take it to a different shop.
02-09-12, 03:08 PM
#9
i think the diag seems legit. If the pump goes bad then the trans is going to be toast as well. Tranny fluid acts as a lubricant for the tras AND is essentially hydraulic fluid that is required to engage and disengage gears as they are needed. When the pump goes then you loose the ability to distribute the fluid to the trans. Can a pump go out and the trans still be ok? Yes but very rarely. How they got to the diagnosis varies by each mechanic, but more than likely they ran a pressure test on one of the tranny cooler lines. If no pressure is coming out from the lines then it's either a restriction or a bad pump, either one can trash the trans.
The T/C replacement is recommended as well because that bad fluid can still be clogging up the T/C and could recirculate back into the trans if not replaced.
$2200 would be steep and hard on my wallet, but from a shop standpoint the price sounds normal. I would think for that price you would get a warranty from the deal so if worse comes to worse then they'll fix it again with no cost to u
The T/C replacement is recommended as well because that bad fluid can still be clogging up the T/C and could recirculate back into the trans if not replaced.
$2200 would be steep and hard on my wallet, but from a shop standpoint the price sounds normal. I would think for that price you would get a warranty from the deal so if worse comes to worse then they'll fix it again with no cost to u
02-10-12, 04:52 PM
#10
I think StiCk3 is correct. The number is high but if you do it halfway, there will not be a warranty on whatever they do because, when it fails, they will point to what was not done as the culprit. So, you could replace the pump and hope for the best. If it does not work out you will be buying a second pump and duplicate labor.
02-13-12, 02:20 AM
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Guys thank you ALL for the replies , it helped me with my decision. since they are going to replace the entire drivetrain , well rebuild . I was thinking its a perfect opportunity to go with a performance TC either Lextreme or Dragon. Ive read all the posts , but no one one can give firsthand experience. Anyone know performance wise , is lextreme that much worse then the dragon? is there a huge difference?? i mean stall speeds are the same , cause spending 3 x more for a dragon is, well steeeep. am i going to get 3x more performance then the Lextreme?
Again im going with the rebuild and the one year warranty .Any more upgrades i should consider during this open heart surgery lol ...
Again im going with the rebuild and the one year warranty .Any more upgrades i should consider during this open heart surgery lol ...
02-13-12, 05:35 AM
#13
This is dumb.
A341 From a JDM engine is $400, and no one wants them. They have extra clutch packs to handle more power, and often only have 20-30k miles on them.
Swap bell housings and tail sections and now you have $1800 left over for blow, and hookers!
A341 From a JDM engine is $400, and no one wants them. They have extra clutch packs to handle more power, and often only have 20-30k miles on them.
Swap bell housings and tail sections and now you have $1800 left over for blow, and hookers!
02-13-12, 11:04 PM
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