Ceramic Turbos + Meth / Water Injection
03-02-12, 07:51 AM
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Ceramic Turbos + Meth / Water Injection
So I keep on hearing about how the 1jz has ceramic turbos and anything above 15psi will destroy them due to high EGT's ( Exhaust Gas Temperatures ). What if you would run a meth / water injection to lower those EGT's? I searched and no one runs this setup on stock turbos with any feedback on this solution to save your stock twins. Anybody have some input? I know most people are just going to say save your 350 bucks and put it towards a single setup.
03-02-12, 09:10 AM
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i think this ^^ is more of the problem as well, im in the turbo rebuilding business and ive seen the ceramic turbines just sheer right off at the hub mating it to the shaft i'll see if i can find one i had, i use to use it as a paper weight
03-02-12, 09:29 AM
#5
Hmmmmm would it be advisable to run water injection on a stock ecu with AFC Neo?
I may take the plunge and wing it.
I'm cramming 22psi at the stock twins for about 2 weeks now and anticipate their demise. I'm wondering if I should experiment with water and see if they survive.
I may take the plunge and wing it.
I'm cramming 22psi at the stock twins for about 2 weeks now and anticipate their demise. I'm wondering if I should experiment with water and see if they survive.
03-02-12, 01:24 PM
#6
Well imo the 350$ on meth is never a waste. Worst case scenario you prolong the life of the twins a little bit and gain some knowledge how it affects stock twins. Then after they blow, its time for an upgrade, which will be complemented by your already existent meth kit. ;-)
03-02-12, 03:43 PM
#7
Can't weld ceramic, and after 20 years or so i'd say the adhesive isn't nearly as good now as it was then.
Back Pressure and EGT's kill ceramic wheels. Glue gets soft, then gets pushed around. Classic David vs. Goliath.
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03-03-12, 07:34 AM
#9
Really? You do know that ceramic wheels have to be glued onto the shaft, right?
Can't weld ceramic, and after 20 years or so i'd say the adhesive isn't nearly as good now as it was then.
Back Pressure and EGT's kill ceramic wheels. Glue gets soft, then gets pushed around. Classic David vs. Goliath.
Can't weld ceramic, and after 20 years or so i'd say the adhesive isn't nearly as good now as it was then.
Back Pressure and EGT's kill ceramic wheels. Glue gets soft, then gets pushed around. Classic David vs. Goliath.
Something else to note is that the current world record holder for stock twins in a Supra went through 4 USDM twins due to the shafts bending due to over-spinning. The point is that over-spinning will kill the strongest of turbos, steel wheeled or not. The fact that the ceramics fail at the bonding seam is not surprising, but I don't think heat is what causes it.
03-03-12, 11:41 PM
#10
Spoolxexo, man, I think you're completely wrong about that one.
You could run e85 or some auxiliary injection, and tune for perfectly low EGTs with the boost cranked up, and I guarantee those stock turbos would wobble (see also: get out of balance) and break at about the same time as a setup running the same boost with higher EGTs. High EGTs certainly wouldn't help anything, but they are not the reason for the failures.
Also, how would you say back pressure kills turbos?
Also2, every ceramic turbine I've seen has been cast as one piece with the shaft, the other end is threaded, and they attach the compressor wheel with a nut. They then balance the chra by removing material from that nut and the nub in the center of the turbine wheel on the other end.
I would love to see some pictures of said glue though. Maybe Hitachi was doing some black magic voodoo stuff with their turbos in the 90s. I know the HT series turbos on all the rx7s didn't have any of this glue.
You could run e85 or some auxiliary injection, and tune for perfectly low EGTs with the boost cranked up, and I guarantee those stock turbos would wobble (see also: get out of balance) and break at about the same time as a setup running the same boost with higher EGTs. High EGTs certainly wouldn't help anything, but they are not the reason for the failures.
Also, how would you say back pressure kills turbos?
Also2, every ceramic turbine I've seen has been cast as one piece with the shaft, the other end is threaded, and they attach the compressor wheel with a nut. They then balance the chra by removing material from that nut and the nub in the center of the turbine wheel on the other end.
I would love to see some pictures of said glue though. Maybe Hitachi was doing some black magic voodoo stuff with their turbos in the 90s. I know the HT series turbos on all the rx7s didn't have any of this glue.
Last edited by cartmill; 03-03-12 at 11:59 PM.
03-04-12, 08:26 AM
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By no means is the meant to hi -jack the thread and please permit. I notice that the last few replies touched on a question forever being asked. I also believe that if you use meth you would also look at increasing your boost level safely.
I know I post a lot of links from the forum below, what I hope is that this will bring better understanding to the topic being discussed. I am not saying any of you are wrong or right, please read and make your own conclusions.
Just as way of info, I have ran 18psi with higher boost spike on my stock twins. The car is currently of the road for other reasons.
Think coupling some of the mods that the guys in Australia have spoken of and use of meth would be something to see. In the end if you tune and dyno the car and post the video you may also help answer some questions and a long-term thread would greatly assist in various ways.
Jeff Bedsor
I have been running up to 30 psi through the stock turbos for a couple of years now. Why they have held on I think is because of a number of things, I have a very free flowing exhaust and intake, run the AFR's at 10.5 to 1 under WOT (which keeps the EGT lower), change oil regularly,bonnet scoop(dropped temps above the turbo's by about 40 C). Probably a bit of luck as well.
I have been running up to 30 psi through the stock turbos for a couple of years now. Why they have held on I think is because of a number of things, I have a very free flowing exhaust and intake, run the AFR's at 10.5 to 1 under WOT (which keeps the EGT lower), change oil regularly,bonnet scoop(dropped temps above the turbo's by about 40 C). Probably a bit of luck as well.
Just as way of info, I have ran 18psi with higher boost spike on my stock twins. The car is currently of the road for other reasons.
Think coupling some of the mods that the guys in Australia have spoken of and use of meth would be something to see. In the end if you tune and dyno the car and post the video you may also help answer some questions and a long-term thread would greatly assist in various ways.
03-05-12, 08:38 AM
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alot of good points / arguments. I was not talking about running meth on stock twins @ like 25 PSI. I am wondering if you ran meth and kept turbos at ~18 psi or so how reliable would they be? I may have to do this and let everyone know. We know Meth will lower EGTs but now the question is : is it the EGTs causing these to blow or this "over-spinning"
03-05-12, 12:48 PM
#14
Even 18psi without meth should be fine. I was running 18psi for a while before upping to 22 psi a few weeks back. I think there has to be a role with either EGTs or backpressure since so many people down south of the border have been pushing crazy inefficient numbers for a few years now with few failures on aftermarket Y-pipes.
03-05-12, 01:53 PM
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Every setup is different , his setup is not your setup not my setup. ..Yours might last his may not.
You don't know how many miles on them , i wouldn't run 18 psi unless i just wanna blow them up because i have a single setup waiting to go on or just wanna see the max they will take before they blow up and i have a single setup ready to go!
If you are not ready to go single don't do it please .
You don't know how many miles on them , i wouldn't run 18 psi unless i just wanna blow them up because i have a single setup waiting to go on or just wanna see the max they will take before they blow up and i have a single setup ready to go!
If you are not ready to go single don't do it please .