Sc400 manual VS. 2002 M3 ??
03-28-12, 06:48 AM
#17
I'm a bit more optimistic about getting an SC4 to handle like an M3. I think it can be done. The only real advantages the M3 has that the SC will struggle to match are weight and weight distribution.
Even that gap up and suspension geometry on SC's is FAR better. BMW STILL insists on using struts. Granted, they have managed to tweak it to the extremes via aluminum but the physics behind a McPherson strut are pretty poor. If you start putting wider tires on, the disadvantage of struts just becomes more magnified.
A properly designed double wishbone can exhibit anti-dive and squat geometry along with better camber gain during compression. The wheelbase is really a non-issue since IIRC the SC's wheelbase is nearly identical if not SHORTER than most M3's regardless of generation.
Before anybody gets twisted over what I'm saying, the M3 is a far better handling car stock for stock. However, I don't think this is through design, rather through weight and materials. It was a car with handling in mind even in its base 3-series form. Better shocks, stiffer springs, lower unsprung weight, and a proper LSD can make any car within the M3's weight range comparable. Put some money into the SC and it is doable.
Even that gap up and suspension geometry on SC's is FAR better. BMW STILL insists on using struts. Granted, they have managed to tweak it to the extremes via aluminum but the physics behind a McPherson strut are pretty poor. If you start putting wider tires on, the disadvantage of struts just becomes more magnified.
A properly designed double wishbone can exhibit anti-dive and squat geometry along with better camber gain during compression. The wheelbase is really a non-issue since IIRC the SC's wheelbase is nearly identical if not SHORTER than most M3's regardless of generation.
Before anybody gets twisted over what I'm saying, the M3 is a far better handling car stock for stock. However, I don't think this is through design, rather through weight and materials. It was a car with handling in mind even in its base 3-series form. Better shocks, stiffer springs, lower unsprung weight, and a proper LSD can make any car within the M3's weight range comparable. Put some money into the SC and it is doable.
03-28-12, 11:55 PM
#21
Intermediate
When I readed the Gixxer Drew suspension thread, some of them made their sc´s to handle better or equal to some todays sports/supercars. I believe it is doable, but even there, sc´s belong more to open roads than twisties.
03-29-12, 11:50 AM
#23
What makes you think that? SC's have a longer wheelbase and the potential to weigh less than both the IS and M3.
Last time I checked, a longer wheelbase equals better handling and stability in the corners. Also, the SC's rear wheel wells can accommodate a 305 wide tire without modification and the IS and M3 cannot.
Last time I checked, a longer wheelbase equals better handling and stability in the corners. Also, the SC's rear wheel wells can accommodate a 305 wide tire without modification and the IS and M3 cannot.
03-29-12, 08:39 PM
#24
I have an e46 m3 and owned a sc300 and currently a gs300. Although the m3 is faster I always preferred to drive my Lexus for overall comfort and the prices for maintenance on the bmw is alot more. Just something as simple as the oil is only available at BMW alot of ppl tell me that there is no such oil cause it's not a mainstream product it's like 5w-60 if I remember. I had a couple on friend that had a wholesale discount. But retail I think its like 25$ per quart. Electrical issues are a pain. Tps sensors go bad that if you can DIY the labor will be in excess of 2gs(this is because they designed it so it's under the intake plenum :/). I would say stick with Lexus it's an overall more reliable car,parts are cheaper and more accessible and easier and less expensive to mod. Hpf turbo kits start at 16g and go up to 40g. Sc ftw
04-02-12, 11:10 AM
#25
The Gixxer-Drew Bilstein/Hypercoil suspension outlined on Supraforums is absolutely worth it and a night and day improvement over the stock SC setup and even a stock Supra setup. Tire choice, at least 9.5" wide rear rims and a Supra TT rear swaybar and a 1.5/Torsen LSD all help.
Still, as good as this is compared to any stock SC I can't compare it to an M3 from an ultimate handling standpoint even with the double wishbone suspension at all four corners. Part of the reason the SC came with it stick and the current M3's don't is related to how much shock absorber technology has improved in twenty years.
Still, as good as this is compared to any stock SC I can't compare it to an M3 from an ultimate handling standpoint even with the double wishbone suspension at all four corners. Part of the reason the SC came with it stick and the current M3's don't is related to how much shock absorber technology has improved in twenty years.
04-02-12, 01:20 PM
#26
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I have an e46 m3 and owned a sc300 and currently a gs300. Although the m3 is faster I always preferred to drive my Lexus for overall comfort and the prices for maintenance on the bmw is alot more. Just something as simple as the oil is only available at BMW alot of ppl tell me that there is no such oil cause it's not a mainstream product it's like 5w-60 if I remember. I had a couple on friend that had a wholesale discount. But retail I think its like 25$ per quart. Electrical issues are a pain. Tps sensors go bad that if you can DIY the labor will be in excess of 2gs(this is because they designed it so it's under the intake plenum :/). I would say stick with Lexus it's an overall more reliable car,parts are cheaper and more accessible and easier and less expensive to mod. Hpf turbo kits start at 16g and go up to 40g. Sc ftw
