Completely stock 1JZ twin turbo OR stock 1JZ VVT against 200k W58?
#1
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Hey guys,
I had a longer version of this but I simplified my query (and yes, I have searched a LOT). I know this isn't a new topic but all I can find are threads where much higher than totally stock horsepower levels are talked about in conjunction with a W58's lifespan against boost.
I have the original 200k+ mile W58 in my car. It's never seen boost but I do drive somewhat aggressively. I don't slam gears, power shift, drift or drag race but I do occasional tail slides and get to 50mph+ fairly quickly by revving the engine up frequently. I have a 4.27 LSD rear end (and the original 4.08 open in case I need it). The transmission has an ACT Stage 2 organic-face clutch and the stock flywheel.
If I swap in a 1JZ-GTE VVT-i engine and keep it 100% STOCK down to the side mount intercooler and stay with only the minimum uprated clutch I need to hold stock power, am I still going to risk blowing the W58 due to shock-loading given my driving style?
I am absolutely planning on getting an R154 to swap in but what I don't care to do is blow the W58 before that happens, so I want to know if such low factory horsepower is still going to be a problem for the NA transmission.
Thanks!
I had a longer version of this but I simplified my query (and yes, I have searched a LOT). I know this isn't a new topic but all I can find are threads where much higher than totally stock horsepower levels are talked about in conjunction with a W58's lifespan against boost.
I have the original 200k+ mile W58 in my car. It's never seen boost but I do drive somewhat aggressively. I don't slam gears, power shift, drift or drag race but I do occasional tail slides and get to 50mph+ fairly quickly by revving the engine up frequently. I have a 4.27 LSD rear end (and the original 4.08 open in case I need it). The transmission has an ACT Stage 2 organic-face clutch and the stock flywheel.
If I swap in a 1JZ-GTE VVT-i engine and keep it 100% STOCK down to the side mount intercooler and stay with only the minimum uprated clutch I need to hold stock power, am I still going to risk blowing the W58 due to shock-loading given my driving style?
I am absolutely planning on getting an R154 to swap in but what I don't care to do is blow the W58 before that happens, so I want to know if such low factory horsepower is still going to be a problem for the NA transmission.
Thanks!
Last edited by KahnBB6; 04-12-13 at 12:00 PM. Reason: simplified
#3
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blk&blu*j, I appreciate your honesty. Those characteristics sound like exactly what I want and exactly what my stock 5-speed doesn't want. I'm not doing the swap right now but I am planning ahead. My thought is that if I'm chancing my W58 no matter what I do I have to procure the R154 and all swap parts for it first and then start looking for a 1JZ VVT-i, since manuals are scarce.
It's just confusing when many, many people seem to have this opinion that a W58 can handle xxx horsepower and yet they are also considered fragile depending on how you drive them under boost.
It's just confusing when many, many people seem to have this opinion that a W58 can handle xxx horsepower and yet they are also considered fragile depending on how you drive them under boost.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 04-12-13 at 04:28 PM. Reason: small addition
#4
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blk&blu*j, I appreciate your honesty. Those characteristics sound like exactly what I want and exactly what my stock 5-speed doesn't want. I'm not doing the swap right now but I am planning ahead. My thought is that if I'm chancing my W58 no matter what I do I have to procure the R154 and all swap parts for it first and then start looking for a 1JZ VVT-i, since manuals are scarce.
It's just confusing when many, many people seem to have this opinion that a W58 can handle xxx horsepower and yet they are also considered fragile depending on how you drive them under boost.
It's just confusing when many, many people seem to have this opinion that a W58 can handle xxx horsepower and yet they are also considered fragile depending on how you drive them under boost.
But curious why a 1jvvti? the turbo sucks, parts are a pain in the ***, Soarer 5spds vvti rare and correct me if I'm wrong but your putting this in the car from your signature??????Right.
#5
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Yeah sorry but based on your own admission (driving style ) it will be done!!!!!!!
But curious why a 1jvvti? the turbo sucks, parts are a pain in the ***, Soarer 5spds vvti rare and correct me if I'm wrong but your putting this in the car from your signature??????Right.
But curious why a 1jvvti? the turbo sucks, parts are a pain in the ***, Soarer 5spds vvti rare and correct me if I'm wrong but your putting this in the car from your signature??????Right.
The 1JZ VVTi? Yeah, that's what I'm now building towards. I built the car to its current state for California mountain roads. That's the reason for the custom 4.27 rear end. I wanted it to be a road handler. I've ridden shotgun in a 600hp 2JZ-GTE SC300 with a V160 and loved the rocketship quality but the oversquare bore and stroke of a 1JZ appeal more to what I want from my car's powerband and lower horsepower goals since it's a daily driver.
The non-vvti 1JZ turbo system is expensive to rebuild, doesn't flow well and tends to get replaced by an aftermarket turbo kit followed by more modifications than I'd care to get into outside of a weekend hobby car. The 1JZ VVTi system, on the other hand, seems to give the engine great low end power, slightly better flow if you upgrade the turbo to a better steel wheel or just replace it altogether with the Tomei ARMS turbo. Other than that (well after the stock engine swap) I'm just not going to go further with the engine, so I'm content to stay within the 500hp ceiling for the 1JZ VVTi.
I like the 2JZ-GTE too of course but they're more much expensive and I'd still want just the stock power with a later maximum of a USDM twin setup to Stu Hagen specs.
I've read plenty about NA-T setups and they just aren't for me. Too custom for a daily.
Also, as a last consideration, I was very concerned about emissions while the car was registered in Cali. Now that I'm in Florida it's not a worry but I could move elsewhere in the next couple of years so while it's not a USDM engine, the 1JZ VVTi will run a bit cleaner than the 1JZ non-VVTi.
From what you've got listed in your signature you have one sick car! Way beyond my goals though
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#6
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500hp is the point where it starts getting hard for even a single turbo 2jz vvti to make on pump gas.
If I were you I would buy a 1jz vvti 5spd soarer complete swap from a local importer. They have the best prices and it'd be complete. Buying a 1jz w/o a r154 is a very poor idea IMO.
If I were you I would buy a 1jz vvti 5spd soarer complete swap from a local importer. They have the best prices and it'd be complete. Buying a 1jz w/o a r154 is a very poor idea IMO.
#7
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500hp is the point where it starts getting hard for even a single turbo 2jz vvti to make on pump gas.
If I were you I would buy a 1jz vvti 5spd soarer complete swap from a local importer. They have the best prices and it'd be complete. Buying a 1jz w/o a r154 is a very poor idea IMO.
If I were you I would buy a 1jz vvti 5spd soarer complete swap from a local importer. They have the best prices and it'd be complete. Buying a 1jz w/o a r154 is a very poor idea IMO.
I hear you about buying the whole package but whether I do that or not comes down to cost and availability. I have time to wait as I still need to buy many little things before a swap is possible but given the nature of beaten used engines with manuals and the fact that I may be better off rebuilding an R154 and converting it for SC duty myself rather than run a worn out trans, I think the transmission being on the engine or not will be a moot issue.
The point of my thread was to make absolutely sure a W58 shouldn't be used with even a 100% stock 1JZ VVTi. I have my answer, so as much as I want to focus on finding a 1JZ VVT I see the biggest priority as replacing my W58 before even looking for a swap. I could change my mind later because the entire combination can be found for JZX100's and Soarers but right now I see the W58 as the roadblock.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 04-13-13 at 02:11 AM. Reason: typo
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#9
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I do wonder if the delivery of torque would make a difference to the W58 between the non-vvti 1J you have and a stock 1JZ VVT-i since torque shows significantly by 1800rpm and peaks/levels at 2400rpm.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 04-16-13 at 11:30 AM.
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