coil pack
05-21-13, 07:58 AM
#62
if the wire is still mostly there and its just the insulation, well tape it back up then it should be fine.
That belt in the picture is not your timing belt, it is your accessory belt and it is much less important than a timing belt, and can be changed alot more easily which you will want to do if its shredding.
The timing belt is hidden behind all the covers and actually wraps around the distributors, I believe you inspect it on a 1uz by removing the distributor covers, and probably some other covers also (not a 1uz expert).
It is very rare for timing belts to just jump teeth, but what is more common is people that think that they do.
so you are saying it was sparking (shocked you) when it was running badly?
I would check the connector on the ignitor and coils, as the ignitor is what puts out the rpm signal and fires the coils, surely you have something loose or gone bad in there and it doesn't sound like it was the coilpack.
That belt in the picture is not your timing belt, it is your accessory belt and it is much less important than a timing belt, and can be changed alot more easily which you will want to do if its shredding.
The timing belt is hidden behind all the covers and actually wraps around the distributors, I believe you inspect it on a 1uz by removing the distributor covers, and probably some other covers also (not a 1uz expert).
It is very rare for timing belts to just jump teeth, but what is more common is people that think that they do.
so you are saying it was sparking (shocked you) when it was running badly?
I would check the connector on the ignitor and coils, as the ignitor is what puts out the rpm signal and fires the coils, surely you have something loose or gone bad in there and it doesn't sound like it was the coilpack.
05-21-13, 08:18 AM
#63
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if the wire is still mostly there and its just the insulation, well tape it back up then it should be fine.
That belt in the picture is not your timing belt, it is your accessory belt and it is much less important than a timing belt, and can be changed alot more easily which you will want to do if its shredding.
The timing belt is hidden behind all the covers and actually wraps around the distributors, I believe you inspect it on a 1uz by removing the distributor covers, and probably some other covers also (not a 1uz expert).
It is very rare for timing belts to just jump teeth, but what is more common is people that think that they do.
so you are saying it was sparking (shocked you) when it was running badly?
I would check the connector on the ignitor and coils, as the ignitor is what puts out the rpm signal and fires the coils, surely you have something loose or gone bad in there and it doesn't sound like it was the coilpack.
That belt in the picture is not your timing belt, it is your accessory belt and it is much less important than a timing belt, and can be changed alot more easily which you will want to do if its shredding.
The timing belt is hidden behind all the covers and actually wraps around the distributors, I believe you inspect it on a 1uz by removing the distributor covers, and probably some other covers also (not a 1uz expert).
It is very rare for timing belts to just jump teeth, but what is more common is people that think that they do.
so you are saying it was sparking (shocked you) when it was running badly?
I would check the connector on the ignitor and coils, as the ignitor is what puts out the rpm signal and fires the coils, surely you have something loose or gone bad in there and it doesn't sound like it was the coilpack.
sc3, sorry for the confusion, when I meant timing belt is shredding, that is what I mean. I had the covers off and was watching the timing belt spin on both cam gears. my accessory belt is fine...
I know the connection to the igniters is fine (afraid if I pull it off itll break)
I was out there all day checking the connections to the coil packs, swapping them about and what not, no luck...
Can igniters be intermittent?
05-21-13, 10:41 AM
#64
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here is the engine trouble shooting sheet. hope its legible. I do not think it is timing, jumped or broken teeth, or the ECU. Based off me getting the car going correctly for a bit, check engine light went off and car operated all functions as it should (tranny shifting fine, ect), what seems more likely the culprit?
thanks!!
thanks!!
05-21-13, 12:07 PM
#65
ignitors and coils usually aren't intermittent and since you have firing of the coil that means the ignitor is working.
So it is actually your timing belt that is shredded, can you get a picture of that?
It could be timing belt related but I don't see why it would be intermittent.
the NE is your crank sensor signal, and the g1 and g2 are the cam sensors, so it could still have something to do with one of the sensors, and the code really points to both of those as a possibility.
how many miles on the car and belt if you know? Im still leaning towards a wiring or sensor issue, try playing with the frayed sensor wire that had the insulation damage, but if most of the strands ar broken or frayed it should be repaired, try playing with more stuff wiggle that wire and check the cam crank sensors.
So it is actually your timing belt that is shredded, can you get a picture of that?
It could be timing belt related but I don't see why it would be intermittent.
the NE is your crank sensor signal, and the g1 and g2 are the cam sensors, so it could still have something to do with one of the sensors, and the code really points to both of those as a possibility.
how many miles on the car and belt if you know? Im still leaning towards a wiring or sensor issue, try playing with the frayed sensor wire that had the insulation damage, but if most of the strands ar broken or frayed it should be repaired, try playing with more stuff wiggle that wire and check the cam crank sensors.
05-21-13, 01:38 PM
#66
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ignitors and coils usually aren't intermittent and since you have firing of the coil that means the ignitor is working.
So it is actually your timing belt that is shredded, can you get a picture of that?
It could be timing belt related but I don't see why it would be intermittent.
the NE is your crank sensor signal, and the g1 and g2 are the cam sensors, so it could still have something to do with one of the sensors, and the code really points to both of those as a possibility.
how many miles on the car and belt if you know? Im still leaning towards a wiring or sensor issue, try playing with the frayed sensor wire that had the insulation damage, but if most of the strands ar broken or frayed it should be repaired, try playing with more stuff wiggle that wire and check the cam crank sensors.
So it is actually your timing belt that is shredded, can you get a picture of that?
It could be timing belt related but I don't see why it would be intermittent.
the NE is your crank sensor signal, and the g1 and g2 are the cam sensors, so it could still have something to do with one of the sensors, and the code really points to both of those as a possibility.
how many miles on the car and belt if you know? Im still leaning towards a wiring or sensor issue, try playing with the frayed sensor wire that had the insulation damage, but if most of the strands ar broken or frayed it should be repaired, try playing with more stuff wiggle that wire and check the cam crank sensors.
The strands I cut off were 2 in quantity, 8 inches or so in length, and no thicker than a kite string. It was just the edge of the belt coming apart slightly. Basically if I took a pic of the belt, you would say it looks fine. But again, timing sounded and felt fine after I had the car firing properly.
I am leading towards the sensors/ a sensor as well. I will fiddle with them next chance I get. My RPM gauge signal to my dash has ALWAYS been intermittent, as well as the MPH gauge. Sometimes there work, sometimes they dont. Sometimes one will work, while other doesn't....I suppose that helps point toward something no?
05-21-13, 01:49 PM
#67
OK I see what you mean about the belt, its probably fine but if you are seeing strands on the edges I would think about doing the belt job soon, I wouldn't wait till 200k with the strands, but alot of these motors can mysteriously make it that far on the original belt.
yes, the rpm gauge being intermittent is not a good thing as well as the MPH, both of those are related to things that can set off that code, vehicle speed sensor, and the NE or IGF signals drive the tach I forget exactly which one but if you loose NE you loose alot of other stuff.
yes, the rpm gauge being intermittent is not a good thing as well as the MPH, both of those are related to things that can set off that code, vehicle speed sensor, and the NE or IGF signals drive the tach I forget exactly which one but if you loose NE you loose alot of other stuff.
05-22-13, 08:45 AM
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OK I see what you mean about the belt, its probably fine but if you are seeing strands on the edges I would think about doing the belt job soon, I wouldn't wait till 200k with the strands, but alot of these motors can mysteriously make it that far on the original belt.
yes, the rpm gauge being intermittent is not a good thing as well as the MPH, both of those are related to things that can set off that code, vehicle speed sensor, and the NE or IGF signals drive the tach I forget exactly which one but if you loose NE you loose alot of other stuff.
yes, the rpm gauge being intermittent is not a good thing as well as the MPH, both of those are related to things that can set off that code, vehicle speed sensor, and the NE or IGF signals drive the tach I forget exactly which one but if you loose NE you loose alot of other stuff.
yea, after I got it "running" correctly on Saturday I was going to park it till I found a place to do the t-belt...only driving I was going to do on it was driving it to the shop..... just so happened the next day it WASNT running correctly anymore. ha.
but I think we are close......
05-23-13, 11:15 AM
#69
check out this page section 9.12 for a pic of where the crank sensor is and the cam sensor.
turns out the crank sensor is on the bottom side of the crank, and those rubber plug things are most likely the cam sensor but I'm guessing on that.
confirm the stuff for all sensors are good. If you notice they all share a ground with each other and the speed sensor.
any noise or disturbances introduced to any parts of any of these wires will cause bad running and erratic ignition timing.
http://oldschool.co.nz/2011/forum/in...-and-non-vvti/
turns out the crank sensor is on the bottom side of the crank, and those rubber plug things are most likely the cam sensor but I'm guessing on that.
confirm the stuff for all sensors are good. If you notice they all share a ground with each other and the speed sensor.
any noise or disturbances introduced to any parts of any of these wires will cause bad running and erratic ignition timing.
http://oldschool.co.nz/2011/forum/in...-and-non-vvti/
05-23-13, 11:30 AM
#70
you know what I just remembered those wires are shielded so you may have done the wire repair incorrectly.
One of the 2 wires is shielded and it carries a grounded sheathing thats around the signal wire.
If the inside signal wire makes any contact with the outside shield wire, it will not work.
The inside wire needs to be a good connection, and cannot come into contact with shielding at all.
The outside wire is supossed to then be wrapped around the inside wire (the insulation keeps them from touching normally bit in your repair this would be heatshrink or tape), and then you need to cover the outside shielding wire so it can't touch anything.
The outside wire is important because it keeps outside electrical inteference from effecting the inside wire, because the outside sheathing will abosrb ambient noise without it affecting the inner signal wire. Most car manufacturers do this on the cam and crank signals.
So basically its a 2 part repair, but the inside wire is the most important. you probably got it close to where it was working on and off depending on if they are touching at that moment/position. if thats the case it should be an easy fix.
One of the 2 wires is shielded and it carries a grounded sheathing thats around the signal wire.
If the inside signal wire makes any contact with the outside shield wire, it will not work.
The inside wire needs to be a good connection, and cannot come into contact with shielding at all.
The outside wire is supossed to then be wrapped around the inside wire (the insulation keeps them from touching normally bit in your repair this would be heatshrink or tape), and then you need to cover the outside shielding wire so it can't touch anything.
The outside wire is important because it keeps outside electrical inteference from effecting the inside wire, because the outside sheathing will abosrb ambient noise without it affecting the inner signal wire. Most car manufacturers do this on the cam and crank signals.
So basically its a 2 part repair, but the inside wire is the most important. you probably got it close to where it was working on and off depending on if they are touching at that moment/position. if thats the case it should be an easy fix.
05-23-13, 05:54 PM
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Sc3, YOU ARE THE MAN. I'll be checking all these things out this weekend. when I came home today though, I did notice that the car actually idled really really really choppy with the cam sensor in question plugged in. when I pulled it out it actually had a rpm idle of a couple hundred more per minute, and not as rough. thank you so much for the help. Will keep the board posted