NA-T Questions?? Ask the Guru
02-27-19, 06:55 PM
#211
Ali,
I heard from my local tuner that the s257sxe would be a good match for a sub 500whp 2j build. Thinks 12psi on stock compression would make 400 or more, quick spool and solid torque even with the smallest ar turbine housing, even despite the 2" cold side outlet. I guess I just assumed t4 footprint turbine housings were all roughly the same size but it stands to reason this would be smaller since the turbine wheel is 10mm smaller and the ar is lower, both contributing to making it smaller. Definitely need to sell this beautiful basketball sized one first though!
I heard from my local tuner that the s257sxe would be a good match for a sub 500whp 2j build. Thinks 12psi on stock compression would make 400 or more, quick spool and solid torque even with the smallest ar turbine housing, even despite the 2" cold side outlet. I guess I just assumed t4 footprint turbine housings were all roughly the same size but it stands to reason this would be smaller since the turbine wheel is 10mm smaller and the ar is lower, both contributing to making it smaller. Definitely need to sell this beautiful basketball sized one first though!
02-27-19, 07:00 PM
#212
Polaris, the s366 is a large turbo so it will be hard to fit with the stock intake setup.
Maybe with the smallest hot side they offer, but really front facing would be the way to go with that turbo.
You can do something custom with the throttle body like the ls400 one I made or shorten the stock one or bends in the piping.
I would say a smaller turbo or just go ffim makes more sense and then it makes things easier.
I am not positive what turbo's will fit under the stock intake, but I think I read about a smaller hotside on one build.
Nuturf, if you are running e85 you shouldn't have to pull back the timing, it should work out pretty well as is.
to set the timing you will need one of those coil plug wire adapter things specifically used for a timing light.
It won't work off of the signal wires, it has to be a plug wire.
I think you can also use the n/a coil with the #1 plug wire attached in a pinch for cylinder number 1. just unplug the tt coil and use the n/a coil for setting the timing.
Most of the na-t crowd has one laying around.
Maybe with the smallest hot side they offer, but really front facing would be the way to go with that turbo.
You can do something custom with the throttle body like the ls400 one I made or shorten the stock one or bends in the piping.
I would say a smaller turbo or just go ffim makes more sense and then it makes things easier.
I am not positive what turbo's will fit under the stock intake, but I think I read about a smaller hotside on one build.
Nuturf, if you are running e85 you shouldn't have to pull back the timing, it should work out pretty well as is.
to set the timing you will need one of those coil plug wire adapter things specifically used for a timing light.
It won't work off of the signal wires, it has to be a plug wire.
I think you can also use the n/a coil with the #1 plug wire attached in a pinch for cylinder number 1. just unplug the tt coil and use the n/a coil for setting the timing.
Most of the na-t crowd has one laying around.
. I may just leave it like that and run the car and adjust from there if need be.
02-28-19, 11:20 AM
#213
4rcefed, So it sounds like the auto plugs just need to be rewired like Gerrb said, that is not very difficult to do and would just get it out of the way if using the aristo vvti transmission.
the gte ecu will be the closest to getting what you are saying you want in my opinion, and if you follow the recipe right it should work better than the ge ecu.
Polaris, I would also suggest trying to stick with something with a 2.5"output. the 2" output is usually used for smaller engine, can't just go off mm sizing.
I think they might even be a T3 footprint but not sure, I would go with a smaller 300 series, or even a precision, or just modify the stock intake manifold or go FFIM before I went with a 2" compressor outlet.
Nuturf, grab a coil and set that timing, you won't know for sure its even at the stock 10 degrees base timing cause of the gte ecu and the distributor setup.
if it was just a gte ecu using the fixed gte sensors on the cam and crank, there would be no adjusting, but you need to make sure the distributor is set close or you can be too advanced.
just grab any toyota coil with a plug wire on it, they are not expensive. keep it around for setting and adjusting timing, it wont be the end of the world and could save the motor.
If you are running 93 on stock compression or even more of a blend than e85, then yes dial back the timing at least a couple degrees and watch the boost and afrs on pump gas very closely.
Another reason I usually use vvti coils, the tt coils are all old by now, expensive, there are 6 of them, they tend to crack and fail, and you can't set the timing easily on distributor motors.
With the vvti coils you just hook to plug wire 1 or 6 depending on how you have it setup, and you can use the most basic analog timing light.
the gte ecu will be the closest to getting what you are saying you want in my opinion, and if you follow the recipe right it should work better than the ge ecu.
Polaris, I would also suggest trying to stick with something with a 2.5"output. the 2" output is usually used for smaller engine, can't just go off mm sizing.
I think they might even be a T3 footprint but not sure, I would go with a smaller 300 series, or even a precision, or just modify the stock intake manifold or go FFIM before I went with a 2" compressor outlet.
Nuturf, grab a coil and set that timing, you won't know for sure its even at the stock 10 degrees base timing cause of the gte ecu and the distributor setup.
if it was just a gte ecu using the fixed gte sensors on the cam and crank, there would be no adjusting, but you need to make sure the distributor is set close or you can be too advanced.
just grab any toyota coil with a plug wire on it, they are not expensive. keep it around for setting and adjusting timing, it wont be the end of the world and could save the motor.
If you are running 93 on stock compression or even more of a blend than e85, then yes dial back the timing at least a couple degrees and watch the boost and afrs on pump gas very closely.
Another reason I usually use vvti coils, the tt coils are all old by now, expensive, there are 6 of them, they tend to crack and fail, and you can't set the timing easily on distributor motors.
With the vvti coils you just hook to plug wire 1 or 6 depending on how you have it setup, and you can use the most basic analog timing light.
The following users liked this post:
4rcedfed (02-28-19)
02-28-19, 04:07 PM
#214
Thank you Ali!
Kuya Gerrb, I have been searching for info for a looong time, specifically the ge vvti pinout. But it is okay, gave me time to acquire parts. It is funny because I have followed your thread for evvver and for some reason did not see that you had the ge vvti/gte vvti info deep in your thread. I do not know why whenever I search certain terms, your thread on page 86 (I changed my settings to more posts per page) and post 3434 and on, does not show up in any search. And AFTER Ali got back to me on my second posting on here, I found the info deep in your thread. I have a lot of reading to do. Thank you guys very much for this info. Those few pages alone in your thread is worth thousands and thousands of dollars, if people want to do the wiring themselves. My initial build was the Na vvti head on my gte block... But now I think I am going to just do the full gte vvti motor, now that I have Gerrbs thread.
Kuya Gerrb, I have been searching for info for a looong time, specifically the ge vvti pinout. But it is okay, gave me time to acquire parts. It is funny because I have followed your thread for evvver and for some reason did not see that you had the ge vvti/gte vvti info deep in your thread. I do not know why whenever I search certain terms, your thread on page 86 (I changed my settings to more posts per page) and post 3434 and on, does not show up in any search. And AFTER Ali got back to me on my second posting on here, I found the info deep in your thread. I have a lot of reading to do. Thank you guys very much for this info. Those few pages alone in your thread is worth thousands and thousands of dollars, if people want to do the wiring themselves. My initial build was the Na vvti head on my gte block... But now I think I am going to just do the full gte vvti motor, now that I have Gerrbs thread.
Last edited by 4rcedfed; 02-28-19 at 04:53 PM.
02-28-19, 05:41 PM
#215
Johnny - glad you found what you are looking for in my thread. A reliable 400rwhp NA-T car is a very fun car .Just use the right parts . Do it once but right .Unfortunately I have seen it many times , once a person had tasted that speed ... they want to go higher and higher. I am not an exception . Boost is Addictive , Dangerous and a very expensive drug . I started wanting a stock 2jzgte car ... now I have different vehicles from 900- 1250rwhp vehicles and still building an NA-T and 1500rwhp cars now 
Good Luck !
Good Luck !
03-01-19, 07:07 AM
#216
Johnny - glad you found what you are looking for in my thread. A reliable 400rwhp NA-T car is a very fun car .Just use the right parts . Do it once but right .Unfortunately I have seen it many times , once a person had tasted that speed ... they want to go higher and higher. I am not an exception . Boost is Addictive , Dangerous and a very expensive drug . I started wanting a stock 2jzgte car ... now I have different vehicles from 900- 1250rwhp vehicles and still building an NA-T and 1500rwhp cars now
Good Luck !
Good Luck !
I am saddened to have passed up the most important documentation of your wiring diagrams,, right in front of my face. I was following your thread for ever. After a small break from the forums, I did not realize you had the ge/gte vvti swap info in there. I was following everything before that. I frequent the build threads often, mostly looking for the 98+ builds, which is a smaller community.
I surely do miss my JZ cars, MKIII, MKIV, GS, etc. and non Toyota cars (E36 325 1jz, 240z LT1, etc) that I sold (along with all my favorite firearms) early on before leaving for Military duty.
Yes the never ending greed of more boost, lol. Luckily for me, I haven't had or ridden in anything over 700hp (only aircraft lol) for more than 10 years. So driving a stock gte sc should satisfy me until that bite for more boost gets me again hahahaha. I am going to hold off on any APU upgrades until later.
I may have to go to GA (was at Ft. Benning in the mid 2000-s) or another state where my money goes a longer way!! Cali is just too ridiculous.
03-01-19, 08:10 AM
#217
4rcefed, So it sounds like the auto plugs just need to be rewired like Gerrb said, that is not very difficult to do and would just get it out of the way if using the aristo vvti transmission.
the gte ecu will be the closest to getting what you are saying you want in my opinion, and if you follow the recipe right it should work better than the ge ecu.
Polaris, I would also suggest trying to stick with something with a 2.5"output. the 2" output is usually used for smaller engine, can't just go off mm sizing.
I think they might even be a T3 footprint but not sure, I would go with a smaller 300 series, or even a precision, or just modify the stock intake manifold or go FFIM before I went with a 2" compressor outlet.
Nuturf, grab a coil and set that timing, you won't know for sure its even at the stock 10 degrees base timing cause of the gte ecu and the distributor setup.
if it was just a gte ecu using the fixed gte sensors on the cam and crank, there would be no adjusting, but you need to make sure the distributor is set close or you can be too advanced.
just grab any toyota coil with a plug wire on it, they are not expensive. keep it around for setting and adjusting timing, it wont be the end of the world and could save the motor.
If you are running 93 on stock compression or even more of a blend than e85, then yes dial back the timing at least a couple degrees and watch the boost and afrs on pump gas very closely.
Another reason I usually use vvti coils, the tt coils are all old by now, expensive, there are 6 of them, they tend to crack and fail, and you can't set the timing easily on distributor motors.
With the vvti coils you just hook to plug wire 1 or 6 depending on how you have it setup, and you can use the most basic analog timing light.
the gte ecu will be the closest to getting what you are saying you want in my opinion, and if you follow the recipe right it should work better than the ge ecu.
Polaris, I would also suggest trying to stick with something with a 2.5"output. the 2" output is usually used for smaller engine, can't just go off mm sizing.
I think they might even be a T3 footprint but not sure, I would go with a smaller 300 series, or even a precision, or just modify the stock intake manifold or go FFIM before I went with a 2" compressor outlet.
Nuturf, grab a coil and set that timing, you won't know for sure its even at the stock 10 degrees base timing cause of the gte ecu and the distributor setup.
if it was just a gte ecu using the fixed gte sensors on the cam and crank, there would be no adjusting, but you need to make sure the distributor is set close or you can be too advanced.
just grab any toyota coil with a plug wire on it, they are not expensive. keep it around for setting and adjusting timing, it wont be the end of the world and could save the motor.
If you are running 93 on stock compression or even more of a blend than e85, then yes dial back the timing at least a couple degrees and watch the boost and afrs on pump gas very closely.
Another reason I usually use vvti coils, the tt coils are all old by now, expensive, there are 6 of them, they tend to crack and fail, and you can't set the timing easily on distributor motors.
With the vvti coils you just hook to plug wire 1 or 6 depending on how you have it setup, and you can use the most basic analog timing light.
03-05-19, 09:49 AM
#218
you won't need the cap and rotor, just the old coil, and one of the 6 spark plug wires that went from the old distributor cap to one of the plugs (you can choose whichever one you like but one of the longer ones might be easier).
normally the wire on the stock coil goes from the coil to the distributor, and then a wire from the distributor to the plug, but just remove the stock wire and use the one that actually goes to the plug.
The stock n/a coil has the same connector as the 2jzgte coils and most toyota dumb coils for that matter, so it should plug right in. quick 5 minute swap and timing set and your good to go!
normally the wire on the stock coil goes from the coil to the distributor, and then a wire from the distributor to the plug, but just remove the stock wire and use the one that actually goes to the plug.
The stock n/a coil has the same connector as the 2jzgte coils and most toyota dumb coils for that matter, so it should plug right in. quick 5 minute swap and timing set and your good to go!
03-05-19, 01:29 PM
#219
you won't need the cap and rotor, just the old coil, and one of the 6 spark plug wires that went from the old distributor cap to one of the plugs (you can choose whichever one you like but one of the longer ones might be easier).
normally the wire on the stock coil goes from the coil to the distributor, and then a wire from the distributor to the plug, but just remove the stock wire and use the one that actually goes to the plug.
The stock n/a coil has the same connector as the 2jzgte coils and most toyota dumb coils for that matter, so it should plug right in. quick 5 minute swap and timing set and your good to go!
normally the wire on the stock coil goes from the coil to the distributor, and then a wire from the distributor to the plug, but just remove the stock wire and use the one that actually goes to the plug.
The stock n/a coil has the same connector as the 2jzgte coils and most toyota dumb coils for that matter, so it should plug right in. quick 5 minute swap and timing set and your good to go!
03-08-19, 09:33 AM
#221
If anyone is looking for a deal on a S366, mine is for sale in the Marketplace now. V-band Turbine housing for the S257 is in the mail, so no turning back now. It'll be way easier to fit with this setup, and I can go FFIM, etc when the time comes and I want a bigger turbo and more power. For now, I'd be happy just to enter the ranks of boosted SC's. The weather is finally getting nicer out (read: not 20 degrees) so I can work on the car more.
Thanks for everyone's advice. It didn't go without some analysis.
Matt
03-08-19, 10:24 AM
#222
thanks again Ali. Yes I will def post back on here with the results and or trouble shooting. I need to get my behind in gear with this car. Miscellaneous things left to start her up.
03-08-19, 11:03 AM
#223
I'm planning on building the car in two "stages." I want the car to be boosted now with a smaller turbo so I can have fun with the powerband on stock compression, etc. If I get a turbo like the S257SXe or similar, I can still easily make 400+ on stock compression, which should reach the top of my 440cc injectors' power potential, not to mention the stock 10:1 compression ratio's limitation before detonation, and the fragile W58 transmission as well. I can enjoy it this way for a while and move on to other parts of the car (car needs paint and some more interior work) and if I get bored with it at this power level, I can always pick up a spare NA block and do a mild refresh on it along with some ARP head studs and GTE head gasket. Need a new transmission, some bigger injectors, and a FIC of some kind to go after bigger power goals anyway, so having a big turbo and no supporting mods to make use of it doesn't make much sense. Upgrading the turbo to a S366 in the future will only cost a few hundred in the grand scheme of things.
If anyone is looking for a deal on a S366, mine is for sale in the Marketplace now. V-band Turbine housing for the S257 is in the mail, so no turning back now. It'll be way easier to fit with this setup, and I can go FFIM, etc when the time comes and I want a bigger turbo and more power. For now, I'd be happy just to enter the ranks of boosted SC's. The weather is finally getting nicer out (read: not 20 degrees) so I can work on the car more.
Thanks for everyone's advice. It didn't go without some analysis.
Matt
If anyone is looking for a deal on a S366, mine is for sale in the Marketplace now. V-band Turbine housing for the S257 is in the mail, so no turning back now. It'll be way easier to fit with this setup, and I can go FFIM, etc when the time comes and I want a bigger turbo and more power. For now, I'd be happy just to enter the ranks of boosted SC's. The weather is finally getting nicer out (read: not 20 degrees) so I can work on the car more.
Thanks for everyone's advice. It didn't go without some analysis.
Matt
03-14-19, 06:23 PM
#224
I'm planning on building the car in two "stages." I want the car to be boosted now with a smaller turbo so I can have fun with the powerband on stock compression, etc. If I get a turbo like the S257SXe or similar, I can still easily make 400+ on stock compression, which should reach the top of my 440cc injectors' power potential, not to mention the stock 10:1 compression ratio's limitation before detonation, and the fragile W58 transmission as well. I can enjoy it this way for a while and move on to other parts of the car (car needs paint and some more interior work) and if I get bored with it at this power level, I can always pick up a spare NA block and do a mild refresh on it along with some ARP head studs and GTE head gasket. Need a new transmission, some bigger injectors, and a FIC of some kind to go after bigger power goals anyway, so having a big turbo and no supporting mods to make use of it doesn't make much sense. Upgrading the turbo to a S366 in the future will only cost a few hundred in the grand scheme of things.
If anyone is looking for a deal on a S366, mine is for sale in the Marketplace now. V-band Turbine housing for the S257 is in the mail, so no turning back now. It'll be way easier to fit with this setup, and I can go FFIM, etc when the time comes and I want a bigger turbo and more power. For now, I'd be happy just to enter the ranks of boosted SC's. The weather is finally getting nicer out (read: not 20 degrees) so I can work on the car more.
Thanks for everyone's advice. It didn't go without some analysis.
Matt
If anyone is looking for a deal on a S366, mine is for sale in the Marketplace now. V-band Turbine housing for the S257 is in the mail, so no turning back now. It'll be way easier to fit with this setup, and I can go FFIM, etc when the time comes and I want a bigger turbo and more power. For now, I'd be happy just to enter the ranks of boosted SC's. The weather is finally getting nicer out (read: not 20 degrees) so I can work on the car more.
Thanks for everyone's advice. It didn't go without some analysis.
Matt
03-15-19, 10:37 AM
#225
Question for those of you na -t guys with ffim. Where are you guys bolting down the oil dipstick tube? I'm noticing that I'm going to seed to make a bracket to mount it. If some of you have other ideas please chime in. Thanks