NA-T Questions?? Ask the Guru
06-13-19, 04:52 PM
#316
I let the car idle for a bit and gave it a few quick revs and it seems like the smoke is starting to lessen, so that's good. I will have to pull the turbo for a sec to put some beefier nuts on the studs which I can't fit without putting the turbo on at the same time as I screw the nuts down. Its leaking ever so slightly there and I don't want to risk stripping the fragile low profile nuts I originally bought.
I have the downpipe wrapped along with the charge pipe leading into the TB because of the tight clearances, but nothing is leaking there, just under the turbo, which is why I am holding off on the turbo blanket til it's all leak free. I'll bump the timing up to 8.
Am I right to assume, then, that if I was able to get the engine tone to change and set the timing, that the TPS is adjusted well enough to not cause any weird tune related issues? And, also, if the o2 sensor is hooked up properly and receiving a signal, etc it wouldn't have a check engine light, right? My CEL is off so I assume everything is fine, but it seems to be dumping fuel. May just be an odd coincidence but either my fuel gauge isn't working right or idling has consumed a ton of fuel which seems unlikely. My AEM is no help, which I am worried about as well, but I think the sensor may be wet and it's horizontal which isn't preferable. My main ECU o2 is vertical so that should be OK.
Thanks!
I have the downpipe wrapped along with the charge pipe leading into the TB because of the tight clearances, but nothing is leaking there, just under the turbo, which is why I am holding off on the turbo blanket til it's all leak free. I'll bump the timing up to 8.
Am I right to assume, then, that if I was able to get the engine tone to change and set the timing, that the TPS is adjusted well enough to not cause any weird tune related issues? And, also, if the o2 sensor is hooked up properly and receiving a signal, etc it wouldn't have a check engine light, right? My CEL is off so I assume everything is fine, but it seems to be dumping fuel. May just be an odd coincidence but either my fuel gauge isn't working right or idling has consumed a ton of fuel which seems unlikely. My AEM is no help, which I am worried about as well, but I think the sensor may be wet and it's horizontal which isn't preferable. My main ECU o2 is vertical so that should be OK.
Thanks!
Last edited by Polarisman; 06-13-19 at 05:14 PM.
06-14-19, 08:26 AM
#317
Yes if the tone changes then the tps is in the right range, I wouldn't mess with it again unless you need to then. Generally its pretty close but over the coarse of 20+ years there is a chance someone messed with it.
The o2 sensor not wired right wont trigger the CEL most of the time. It sounds like the o2 sensor is not working for whatever reason then.
The only way to know for sure is to fix the wideband first. It should start at 14.8, and then after like 15-30 seconds it usually starts moving around.
on a cold start usually it will go really rich like 10-11, until the o2 kicks in then it creeps up to 14 and then will go back between 14 and 15.
If you have the engine off or the o2 sensor hanging outside the downpipe it should go to full lean 16+.
I would start with the wideband, cause that is the easiest way to see if your stock o2 is kicking in.
are you using 440cc injectors? can't remember. if you are running 550s without a piggy it is going to be really rich.
The o2 sensor not wired right wont trigger the CEL most of the time. It sounds like the o2 sensor is not working for whatever reason then.
The only way to know for sure is to fix the wideband first. It should start at 14.8, and then after like 15-30 seconds it usually starts moving around.
on a cold start usually it will go really rich like 10-11, until the o2 kicks in then it creeps up to 14 and then will go back between 14 and 15.
If you have the engine off or the o2 sensor hanging outside the downpipe it should go to full lean 16+.
I would start with the wideband, cause that is the easiest way to see if your stock o2 is kicking in.
are you using 440cc injectors? can't remember. if you are running 550s without a piggy it is going to be really rich.
06-14-19, 09:28 AM
#318
Yes if the tone changes then the tps is in the right range, I wouldn't mess with it again unless you need to then. Generally its pretty close but over the coarse of 20+ years there is a chance someone messed with it.
The o2 sensor not wired right wont trigger the CEL most of the time. It sounds like the o2 sensor is not working for whatever reason then.
The only way to know for sure is to fix the wideband first. It should start at 14.8, and then after like 15-30 seconds it usually starts moving around.
on a cold start usually it will go really rich like 10-11, until the o2 kicks in then it creeps up to 14 and then will go back between 14 and 15.
If you have the engine off or the o2 sensor hanging outside the downpipe it should go to full lean 16+.
I would start with the wideband, cause that is the easiest way to see if your stock o2 is kicking in.
are you using 440cc injectors? can't remember. if you are running 550s without a piggy it is going to be really rich.
The o2 sensor not wired right wont trigger the CEL most of the time. It sounds like the o2 sensor is not working for whatever reason then.
The only way to know for sure is to fix the wideband first. It should start at 14.8, and then after like 15-30 seconds it usually starts moving around.
on a cold start usually it will go really rich like 10-11, until the o2 kicks in then it creeps up to 14 and then will go back between 14 and 15.
If you have the engine off or the o2 sensor hanging outside the downpipe it should go to full lean 16+.
I would start with the wideband, cause that is the easiest way to see if your stock o2 is kicking in.
are you using 440cc injectors? can't remember. if you are running 550s without a piggy it is going to be really rich.
I guess I need to pull the wideband, see what the sensor looks like, clean if necessary, and see if I can just turn the key on and see if it goes full lean after a while. Something weird is happening with the wideband though, as when I stab the throttle it sometimes resets itself. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless I wired the wideband wrong. Definitely odd though since it's just power and ground to the unit itself from that pigtail (Power is from blk/org B+ at the ECU and ground is right to one of the studs coming out of the floor pan at the ECUs), and the other pigtail plugs in the back of the gauge and only has a connection point at the o2 itself (no physical wiring there). The only other wires on the AEM one which I just have tucked into the harness are the white and blue ones, which are for datalogging, etc. I'll double check that at some point, but that seems pretty odd to me unless the wiring was damaged putting the plastic cover back over the ECUs in the footwell. I can beep out the o2 sensor as well, since I had to convert it over to a GM style pigtail to find mating connectors easily. Don't know why it would matter though as I was just connecting things by beeping them out.
The reason I was asking about the TPS is because I removed it and the other sensor on the TB in order to have the TB TIG welded. I put it back in the same position as best I could, but was still curious as it seems other people's experiences are that they're super sensitive.
Last edited by Polarisman; 06-14-19 at 09:33 AM.
06-14-19, 12:57 PM
#319
As long as it makes the change in sound when you put the jumper in to set the timing, the tps is in the right range. you should be fine with that, but you can do a fine adjustment in that range to get rid of hesitation issues etc.. I wouldn't mess with it unless you notice a problem later. its just when people dont hear the sound change and then try and set the timing, it ends up like 10 degrees off etc...
I think you have a wiring issue with the gauge or something else is going on, hard to say from here really but sounds like you understand it pretty good I would just troubleshoot until you get it working.
it should not reset on the throttle stab, unless its just swinging from lean to rich and looks like a reset? I would have to see what the gauges is doing, or ask a buddy cause all the aem gauges pretty much act the same.
There should be some troubleshooting stuff in the installation instructions for the gauge. if it is resetting I would check the grounds.
If you have an exhaust leak before the o2 sensor it will also register lean usually.
I think you have a wiring issue with the gauge or something else is going on, hard to say from here really but sounds like you understand it pretty good I would just troubleshoot until you get it working.
it should not reset on the throttle stab, unless its just swinging from lean to rich and looks like a reset? I would have to see what the gauges is doing, or ask a buddy cause all the aem gauges pretty much act the same.
There should be some troubleshooting stuff in the installation instructions for the gauge. if it is resetting I would check the grounds.
If you have an exhaust leak before the o2 sensor it will also register lean usually.
06-14-19, 05:24 PM
#320
I was able to verify that after ten seconds or so with the car off and ignition on it goes full lean. I'm pretty familiar with the AEM wideband as I owned one before for ten years. I sold that one and bought this new one which was apparently a mistaske, lol. I'll grab the directions and see if that sheds any light. All this talking about not having a check engine light apparently took its toll as it did trip one finally. My guess is the o2 sensor issue caused it to dump fuel and fouled a plug as it seems to be idling rough. All plug wires and coils are seated well.
How do you trigger things to figure it out? CEL on only once it actually starts. It wouldn't come down to a normal idle so I decided to move the tps a touch at which point it dropped right down but still wouldn't allow me to enter reset mode for timing with the jumper. WTF happened?!??!? I would love to drive it around the neighborhood on father's day.
On the upside, the charge piping is all together and I sealed the turbo to manifold leak. Seems like the coolant is all burned off finally, so raw fuel is the only thing causing any additional smoke out the exhaust..and I gave it a few revs, couldn't help myself...that turbo sounds great! Can't wait to enjoy it further.
How do you trigger things to figure it out? CEL on only once it actually starts. It wouldn't come down to a normal idle so I decided to move the tps a touch at which point it dropped right down but still wouldn't allow me to enter reset mode for timing with the jumper. WTF happened?!??!? I would love to drive it around the neighborhood on father's day.
On the upside, the charge piping is all together and I sealed the turbo to manifold leak. Seems like the coolant is all burned off finally, so raw fuel is the only thing causing any additional smoke out the exhaust..and I gave it a few revs, couldn't help myself...that turbo sounds great! Can't wait to enjoy it further.
06-16-19, 10:07 AM
#321
Are there any blank pins on my '92 that would have switched 12v going to them, or only the ones with pins in them? Asking because I thought I tapped into the black/orange wire at the ECU but the more I stare at it the more red it looks.
My AEM gauge keeps resetting which makes me think the positive isn't working right. I will prove this out by running a power wire direct to the battery, and if resetting continues, I'll do the same with the ground to prove that out. Hopefully it isn't the gauge itself! Unplugging the o2 didn't fix anything, so no wiring short there.
I finally got my downpipe to midpipe v band to seal, my midpipe to tail section still leaks so tomorrows project is to pull it off the hangers and attach the v band after cleaning it...may have sand in there or something. Doesn't take much. Once it's clamped it won't leak and I can lift it into position and get it hung.
Once that is done and the wiring is cleaned up, I have to figure out why I can't get into timing setting mode. I did get to drive it around the neighborhood last night though and it feels perfectly normal, so there is that.
My AEM gauge keeps resetting which makes me think the positive isn't working right. I will prove this out by running a power wire direct to the battery, and if resetting continues, I'll do the same with the ground to prove that out. Hopefully it isn't the gauge itself! Unplugging the o2 didn't fix anything, so no wiring short there.
I finally got my downpipe to midpipe v band to seal, my midpipe to tail section still leaks so tomorrows project is to pull it off the hangers and attach the v band after cleaning it...may have sand in there or something. Doesn't take much. Once it's clamped it won't leak and I can lift it into position and get it hung.
Once that is done and the wiring is cleaned up, I have to figure out why I can't get into timing setting mode. I did get to drive it around the neighborhood last night though and it feels perfectly normal, so there is that.
06-17-19, 01:05 PM
#322
sounds like you know how the wideband works so get that working where its not turning off. is it going rich before it turns off with the engine on?
You will need to tap into a 12v wire that is already existing, like the main one people use to power piggybacks like the safc etc.. look up the diagram online its the same for most 2jz ecus.
sometimes you have to readjust the tps, you need it in the position where the jumper makes a sound. sometimes the throttle cable will hold it more open etc.. so check over that stuff.
If its dumping fuel that bad, which it shouldn't be with the 440's, you either have too much fuel pressure or possibly a bad ecu assuming the injectors are fine.
I know you put a big pump in there, but did you change the fpr? if you did you will need to set it.
also if you have a bad ecu, it usually dumps fuel. I would check all the other stuff before opening the ecu up to take a look.
make sure you get rid of all the air leaks, if the stock o2 sees air leaks it will dump fuel also, that is anything before the o2, manifold to head, turbo to manifold, and downpipe to turbo.
You will need to tap into a 12v wire that is already existing, like the main one people use to power piggybacks like the safc etc.. look up the diagram online its the same for most 2jz ecus.
sometimes you have to readjust the tps, you need it in the position where the jumper makes a sound. sometimes the throttle cable will hold it more open etc.. so check over that stuff.
If its dumping fuel that bad, which it shouldn't be with the 440's, you either have too much fuel pressure or possibly a bad ecu assuming the injectors are fine.
I know you put a big pump in there, but did you change the fpr? if you did you will need to set it.
also if you have a bad ecu, it usually dumps fuel. I would check all the other stuff before opening the ecu up to take a look.
make sure you get rid of all the air leaks, if the stock o2 sees air leaks it will dump fuel also, that is anything before the o2, manifold to head, turbo to manifold, and downpipe to turbo.
06-17-19, 05:15 PM
#323
sounds like you know how the wideband works so get that working where its not turning off. is it going rich before it turns off with the engine on?
You will need to tap into a 12v wire that is already existing, like the main one people use to power piggybacks like the safc etc.. look up the diagram online its the same for most 2jz ecus.
sometimes you have to readjust the tps, you need it in the position where the jumper makes a sound. sometimes the throttle cable will hold it more open etc.. so check over that stuff.
If its dumping fuel that bad, which it shouldn't be with the 440's, you either have too much fuel pressure or possibly a bad ecu assuming the injectors are fine.
I know you put a big pump in there, but did you change the fpr? if you did you will need to set it.
also if you have a bad ecu, it usually dumps fuel. I would check all the other stuff before opening the ecu up to take a look.
make sure you get rid of all the air leaks, if the stock o2 sees air leaks it will dump fuel also, that is anything before the o2, manifold to head, turbo to manifold, and downpipe to turbo.
You will need to tap into a 12v wire that is already existing, like the main one people use to power piggybacks like the safc etc.. look up the diagram online its the same for most 2jz ecus.
sometimes you have to readjust the tps, you need it in the position where the jumper makes a sound. sometimes the throttle cable will hold it more open etc.. so check over that stuff.
If its dumping fuel that bad, which it shouldn't be with the 440's, you either have too much fuel pressure or possibly a bad ecu assuming the injectors are fine.
I know you put a big pump in there, but did you change the fpr? if you did you will need to set it.
also if you have a bad ecu, it usually dumps fuel. I would check all the other stuff before opening the ecu up to take a look.
make sure you get rid of all the air leaks, if the stock o2 sees air leaks it will dump fuel also, that is anything before the o2, manifold to head, turbo to manifold, and downpipe to turbo.
I am running the AEM 320lph pump triggered off the factory fuel pump ECU, with 12 gauge power and ground wires and a 30A relay. Stock FPR, but ditched the damper in favor of the DM piece.
I got my exhaust to seal finally, and re wrapped and tucked my o2 sensor wires.
Gotta still have a tps issue as it cranks for a little bit before starting, and once running (although silky smooth) its at 1500rpm or so, and doesn't settle, though I haven't let it warm up fully to reference. The CEL is on when running though, so I assume regardless of engine bay vs under dash area, te1 to e1 should get my cel code to flash if the key is in the on position.
To adjust the tps to where the jumper will have an effect, can that be done while it's running, or do you need to go in small steps and flash the ecu each time?
Thanks again, almost there!
Matt
Last edited by Polarisman; 06-17-19 at 05:40 PM.
06-18-19, 05:21 PM
#325
My stock auto took a crap on me this weekend Figured that was gonna happen as since I change the fluid I have had issues since now it drives in every position no reverse no neutral ... Also car is pretty rusty I think I’m gonna look for a clean body and do a manual swap
06-18-19, 06:51 PM
#326
^Jeeze man that didn't take long! What was that, two weeks from getting it running to taking out the trans? That's gotta be some kind of record, hopefully one I won't beat, lol...
Great news on my end. Not entirely sure, but it seems my wideband wiring faux pas and weird symptoms were interrelated. Pin 1 (bottom right hand corner of the 40 pin ECU harness, black with red stripe) is the 12v switched wire. Once I moved my gauge power there, the other weird symptoms went away. I had a few odd moments where the car would be idling perfect, then randomly drop out entirely, but since it warmed up fully and I set timing and reset the computer, it hasn't happened since. I let it idle for a few minutes and did some quick throttle stabs along with holding steady at certain rpms just to give it a chance to start doing some adaptive learning and stuff. Also took it for a quarter mile jaunt (length, not a hard drive) and things were buttery smooth.
As expected, idle was right at stoich once warmed up, and throttle stabs responded normally without stalling. Pulls 20 inches of vacuum at ~900rpm idle at 8° base timing on stock compression, so no issues there to speak of. Really feels factory fresh. The next steps are to put a few miles on in the neighborhood, then throw the turbo blanket on once I know for sure nothing is leaking. Then, a trip to grab some gas, and an oil and filter change to ensure all left over shavings from drilling for the oil return are gone. I flushed everything thoroughly, but this is cheap insurance. Then, it's back to fair weather daily driving duty, cruise nights and ice cream runs with the family again.
Thanks again for making this all possible, and feasible.
Great news on my end. Not entirely sure, but it seems my wideband wiring faux pas and weird symptoms were interrelated. Pin 1 (bottom right hand corner of the 40 pin ECU harness, black with red stripe) is the 12v switched wire. Once I moved my gauge power there, the other weird symptoms went away. I had a few odd moments where the car would be idling perfect, then randomly drop out entirely, but since it warmed up fully and I set timing and reset the computer, it hasn't happened since. I let it idle for a few minutes and did some quick throttle stabs along with holding steady at certain rpms just to give it a chance to start doing some adaptive learning and stuff. Also took it for a quarter mile jaunt (length, not a hard drive) and things were buttery smooth.
As expected, idle was right at stoich once warmed up, and throttle stabs responded normally without stalling. Pulls 20 inches of vacuum at ~900rpm idle at 8° base timing on stock compression, so no issues there to speak of. Really feels factory fresh. The next steps are to put a few miles on in the neighborhood, then throw the turbo blanket on once I know for sure nothing is leaking. Then, a trip to grab some gas, and an oil and filter change to ensure all left over shavings from drilling for the oil return are gone. I flushed everything thoroughly, but this is cheap insurance. Then, it's back to fair weather daily driving duty, cruise nights and ice cream runs with the family again.
Thanks again for making this all possible, and feasible.
06-19-19, 07:36 AM
#327
Polaris glad you got it sorted, and yes you can adjust the tps while its running and when you are done you can reset the ecu, but if its working fine I wouldn't bother resetting it now.
Silent, you can get to 500ish on the stock lines and fpr with an upgraded pump with pump gas, but not with E85 as it needs more fuel volume for the same power and those lines will restrict it.
IF you plan to go E85 eventually you can plan ahead with the pump etc.. but know that switching to E85 is a bit involved.
Japsx85, thats unfortunate but does tend to happen. I would also look to a manual swap if you plan to be turbo for any length of time reliably.
the stock auto just isn't up to the task and building them costs as much or more than a manual swap.
Silent, you can get to 500ish on the stock lines and fpr with an upgraded pump with pump gas, but not with E85 as it needs more fuel volume for the same power and those lines will restrict it.
IF you plan to go E85 eventually you can plan ahead with the pump etc.. but know that switching to E85 is a bit involved.
Japsx85, thats unfortunate but does tend to happen. I would also look to a manual swap if you plan to be turbo for any length of time reliably.
the stock auto just isn't up to the task and building them costs as much or more than a manual swap.
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japsc85 (03-15-20)
06-19-19, 09:24 AM
#328
Advanced
Is there an easy method i can convert the hardline to accept -6AN for my new fuel rail?
looks like something like this can work to get to -6AN
https://www.jegs.com/i/Earls/361/165056/10002/-1
or really this i think
https://www.maperformance.com/produc...r-fitting-6205
Can i just convert to -6AN run an aftermarket FPR and have no return? or should i return it?
Oh i could just run return off a FPR that seems pretty easy. Is the return line the same fitting size as the feed?
looks like something like this can work to get to -6AN
https://www.jegs.com/i/Earls/361/165056/10002/-1
or really this i think
https://www.maperformance.com/produc...r-fitting-6205
Can i just convert to -6AN run an aftermarket FPR and have no return? or should i return it?
Oh i could just run return off a FPR that seems pretty easy. Is the return line the same fitting size as the feed?
Last edited by silentkill; 06-19-19 at 09:42 AM.
06-19-19, 10:43 AM
#329
Is there an easy method i can convert the hardline to accept -6AN for my new fuel rail?
looks like something like this can work to get to -6AN
https://www.jegs.com/i/Earls/361/165056/10002/-1
or really this i think
https://www.maperformance.com/produc...r-fitting-6205
Can i just convert to -6AN run an aftermarket FPR and have no return? or should i return it?
Oh i could just run return off a FPR that seems pretty easy. Is the return line the same fitting size as the feed?
looks like something like this can work to get to -6AN
https://www.jegs.com/i/Earls/361/165056/10002/-1
or really this i think
https://www.maperformance.com/produc...r-fitting-6205
Can i just convert to -6AN run an aftermarket FPR and have no return? or should i return it?
Oh i could just run return off a FPR that seems pretty easy. Is the return line the same fitting size as the feed?
06-19-19, 10:58 AM
#330
Advanced
I see DM has the fitting as well for stock line to -6AN
Last edited by silentkill; 06-19-19 at 11:25 AM.