Polarisman

I am running stock lines to and from the tank. Just upgraded to 440cc injectors, 320lph AEM pump, and the DM bypass line. Otherwise all OEM.

Polarisman

I may have spoken too soon about my successes. When I went to start the car today, it cranked for a while first, then eventually caught and was idling at 1500rpm just like before. With the working wideband, I could confirm it was going dead rich (AEM bottoms out at 10:1) and pulling 17-18" of vacuum vs the 800rpm idle, 14.7:1 AFR and 20" vacuum yesterday. I made no changes except for letting it sit overnight. What the hell could have possibly happened?

The check engine light is on, but when I try to access the diagnostics (key on, engine off, jumper TE1 to E1) nothing happens. Light doesn't come on, flash, or otherwise communicate at all, so that is no use.

I reset the ECU for a half hour, to no avail. No change.

I started the car and tried to adjust the tps. Not sure if this is normal, but as I rotated it through its travel, it makes the idle rpms fall dramatically all at once from 15-1600 to 8-900. Even after all this, resetting the ECU results in no change. Idle is still pig rich, though now at 900rpm, and 20" of vacuum, with the check engine light still on.

Any suggestions are welcome. I'm about to punt this thing off a cliff.

EDIT: I was able to move the wires around and get it to start and run. Things felt awesome at 12psi once it was running normally but I am still wary that there is a loose wire or something else going on. After reading the symptoms of leaky caps, I am still not entirely sold that it isn't the culprit. Fortunately since I can still get it to run normally there shouldn't be any permanent damage as of yet. I will be pulling the ECU and inspecting them as the previous owner has had the cover off before I purchased it--but that was a couple years ago and they may have started leaking. I believe he did an inspection, not a replacement at that point.

Fortunately, the replacement kits are less than $15.00 on eBay and I work at an electronics place with all the tools at my disposal.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

If you open it up and see signs of damage on the board, I would start looking for a replacement at some point vs fixing it. somehow when I read about people who have had them repaired the success rate is rather low.
The problem isn't just the caps, but when they leak onto the board they short things out. its possible to damage one of the mircro controllers etc..

The tps can be rather picky though, where it goes from 1500 to dropping to 800 is the edge of the right range you want to be in.
you want to be on the 800-900 side and more than just a hair so as you are blipping the throttle it transitions into the other side.
your throttle cable could also be preventing the throttle plate and thus tps from going back all the way, you can loosen it up via the set screw but it will lower the idle some, dont go under 750 ish.
You can also slot the holes on the tps a hair to get a little more adjustment if you are running out of range instead of backing off the set screw. that could get it in the right range without lowering the idle more.
It might just be the tps, but I wouldn't rule out a bad ecu if it keeps happening. usually though it runs when cold and starts to get worse as it warms up, not the other way around so I can't even take a guess there.

Silent, I don't really want to get into all the fuel lines etc.. its not really specific to na-t as you need that stuff for any turbo build.
My suggestion would be to just do the pump and use the stock stuff for now, it will support 500 easy.
All 2jz turbo's use a return line, alot of the time you can reuse the stock one and upgrade the feed lines for more power on pump.
If you are thinking e85 later you will end up replacing everything, feed, return, cleaning out the tank, going through several fuel fitlers etc...
If you choose to use an aftermarket rail, you will need the right feed line as polaris mentioned (the one that screws in not the compression fitting you linked), and an after market FPR, and you can reuse the stock return line generally speaking. you wont be achieving anything better than stock here using the stock hard line, but it will look shinier.

Polarisman

Thank you for the insight. What I noticed is that when the car was running normally, moving the TPS back and forth wouldn't have a jerky transition, it would smoothly move up and down the rpm range as adjusted. It was all at once when the computer had the CEL on and whatnot.

If I have a bad leak and it starts going elsewhere, I also have the means to figure out what parts are shorted, part numbers, etc...I work at a contract manufacturer, we have SMT machines, thru hole, etc. My hope is that this is all wiring and TPS related and I don't need to rip the ECU apart, but if I do I know it's all stuff that is feasible for me to do. If I do replace the ECU down the line, I'll try to find a JDM supra ECU since it seems preferable with higher redline and no need for the inverting relay for the AC, albeit more expensive (and I already have the inverting relay installed, and the AC blows nice and cold).

More to follow,

Matt

Polarisman

OK. Good news is that the caps on the ECU all look great and leak free. ECU pins on the ECU side are all straight and look great.

Should I get some of the dielectric grease you use on spark plugs and other connections, and carefully apply it to the ECU pins to improve continuity on all those connections? Otherwise I will verify all pins are fully seated, calibrate the tps and be on my way!

silentkill

Do i need the IAC when going NA-T? I see some of the plenums do not have provisions for it.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

I want to say there was some grease originally from the factory, but I haven't applied new grease just to avoid introducing more problems. If it all looks good just make sure everything is seated well and close it back up.

Silent, you do not need an IAC, but if you have ever driven a car without an IAC you would want to have it on anything other than a strictly track car.
I did it for a while and it was a total pain, whenever someone asks me now, I always say its worth the time and $ to go ahead and have the IAC flange welded on and have it working.
It is actually much worse to not have it when you live somewhere that gets really cold, like lets say randomly for example.... Wisconsin. Ok maybe that wasn't so random.

Polarisman

Yeah being in NH the first and last month of every season for the sc can have temps around freezing so driving without it blows. My last car that was tuned on megasquirt had a solenoid valve I wired up to a switch to raise the idle rpm by about 500 but even that wasn't always enough. Make the IAC work.

I went through all the male and female pins on the left 40 pin harness of the 80 pin section, made sure everything was fully seated, and "painted" all the male pins and inserted a sewing pin into all the females with dielectric grease. I wiped off all excess and was very careful to not bridge any pins together with the grease. To accomplish this I put one of the yellow pin aligners into the ecu side, painted them, removed the aligner, and cleaned the inside of that to prevent bridging.

After all this, the car started and ran well with the exception of a odd section in the warm up process. It shows up consistently when the coolant gauge starts to come off c and doesn't go away until it's about a quarter of the way up the gauge. The car will change tone randomly and sometimes completely stall but once past this it runs normally. I'm assuming tps related maybe, so tomorrow I'll tackle fully calibrating that. May as well get that crossed off the list if nothing else.

silentkill

So i took off my head, prior to that i 'TDC' set it based on the 0 mark and the timing gear marks at 12 oclock.

Took the head off, cleaned it up and installed the new HG. We noticed #1 is not all the way at the top, what gives? am i not on the compression stroke of #1?

Is there an easy way of setting the lower end to TDC? I'll snap pics later but i have the head on it now (not torqued yet)

---

well i haven't moved the crank since i set it at 0, so if i reassemble with the cams at 12 oclock then everything should be exactly where it was?


another side note, i'm having a hard time picking a clutch for my 600hp goal lol. Is there a full face option with anything over 400ft lb rating? I was peaking at the FX400 a lot seems to be a good option? (W58)

Polarisman

600hp may be a lofty goal for the W58. AR-5 or CD009 swap may be in your future. It seems like most people stay in the 400-500 range with the W58 with limited success stories above that. You can get by if you have the boost hit gently and don't slam gears, but honestly who the hell wants to do that and constantly worry?

Things may be looking up on mine. I think (maybe?) that it's now starting and running consistently. I believe my issue was with the MAP sensor. I used a non-Toyota pigtail for the MAP sensor harness and I noticed when unplugging it when the car was running it made no change. Beeped out and checked voltages and everything was there, so I think the issue is the female pins on the harness are a bit oversized. I packed things with dilectric grease and haven't had an issue since. Hopefully it continues. I put 25 miles on and the only thing i noticed is at the top end of the rpm range at max boost (12psi @ manifold) it pops a bit. Not fuel cut, definitely not detonation as I know what that feels like...Possibly spark blowout. I am not running the TT plugs so that means the gap is pretty big. Either way, with the 1 bar spring I can't go any lower than 12psi so I'll just have to deal with it until I do the plugs and switch over to something with a smaller gap at some point. Hoping to get it inspected Thursday and start piling the miles on.

silentkill

Yes i plan on doing a trans swap in the next year haha. I'm sure ill just end up having a moderate tune up and be less than 600 out of the gate.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Silent, 0 on the crank is usually just a hair before top dead zero piston wise in my experience, as in the piston might still move a hair up if you go past 0 but is should be very very close to the top.

sometimes if someone forgets to tighten the crank pulley bolt fully, it can come loose and the crank pulley can knock around and destroy the crank keyway (the half moon looking metal piece on the crank that aligns the crank pulley).
with the bolt loose, if you can turn the crank pulley left and right while its on the crank, then you need a new keyway because it will be hard to perfectly spot top dead zero.. I've seen one where the zero mark moves over an inch left and right from the correct spot.
If it doesn't wiggle very much and is snug, then the keyway is fine and you are good to go just line up the crank with zero, and the cams with the cover when assembling the belt. everything else will work itself out, even if you moved it after taking it apart.

The w58 wont hold 600hp, plan to go r154 or T56 or cd0009 or something. It will rip itself apart in the 400+ range, and if you have a lsd or wide/sticky tires, probably even faster.
I haven't seen too many full face clutched holding, but southbend can probably put something together to get close but I bet its pricey.
I used an ACT 6 puck sprung extreme setup and it held 400+, but was like an on and off switch in 1st gear. you can probably find a full face setup to hold around 350-400 and have better engagement.

If you can do the trans swap earlier its better, you can sell your w58 before you destroy it and you wont have to buy a clutch twice.
The way you keep throwing out that 600 number, if you are serious your trans wont get you there and you will need more injector and likely a standalone management system, the tt ecu mod wont drive that well above 500 something.

Have you driven one of these cars turbo'd? even 400 is quite a bit of more power than stock and takes some getting used to. I would hold off turning it up to 5-600 without ironing everything out, and also at the minumum ls400 brakes and some type of stiffer suspension, and a good alignment.

Polaris, gotta make sure all the pins are secured well, especially on the map sensor. get the oem size terminals and connector if you have to. its the one sensor that can cause the engine to stall, not just idle funny like the tps.
At 12 psi on the tt ecu mod I am guessing you are pretty rich in the 10-11 afr range, so until you get the colder plugs that are gapped down you will get some blow out and popping here and there, usually kind of sounds like a series of misses.
one thing that can help with the boost coming on stronger and more consistent is to get a manual boost controller, and set it to just a hair above where the spring is at, so 12-14 psi. That will keep the wastegate from cracking open as you approach 12 psi, so you will spool faster and wont dump exhaust gasses until you are actually at the boost level you want. The ecu will actually respond better cause it will spool more healthy like the stock setup.

If you are going to stay at or under 14 psi for a while, get some BKR6EIX and drop them in or gap them to like .028 to start with (they come at .032 normally. if you get the ones with a -11 on the end, they come at .043 or something like that). I usually avoid the -11 ones. The 6 heat range is the factory TT heat range and is good for low boost (stock n/a is a 5 heat range). If you are going to be hitting 18-20 psi often, then get some BKR7EIX and gap them down the same, its one heat range cooler and good for most na-t beginner single turbo setups. If you have a giant snail on there and pushing lots of boost you would be looking at a 8 plus, but that isn't likely on the tt ecu mod.

And get the Iridium plugs, they are the best plugs you can use on your na-t. don't put coppers in, they work great but you will be changing them all the time and its a pain if you don't have a FFIM, even then its still a pain.
Also forget anything anyone tells you about platinum plugs, they are the absolute worst and that is what they use as factory replacements on alot of stock SC's. If you have them get them changed out.
The Iridiums are incredibly hard to foul and perfect to run with the tt ecu mod as it the ecu tends to dump fuel at times on the top end, and they will last a silly amount of time.

silentkill

Crank pulley is nice and tight. I have something like half an inch to an inch down bore on cyl 1 so thats unusual. That's 0 on crank and timing marks at 12 oclock. I have not moved the crank since TDC so in theory i can just reassemble with cams at 12 and be in the same position. There are two marks on my balancer, did i use the wrong one?

you can see #1 here:



I have a standalone and plan on going with ID1300x and doing e85 eventually.

My goal for the year is to just get it running though and a $4000 trans swap will kinda hamper that. Hopefully i can net 400 hp this year

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

That isn't TDC, you are probably looking at the other mark on the crank pulley, there is a white and a yellow one and you want the white one if I remember right.
That other mark is used as an assembly position where none of the pistons are at TDC. the manual will reference this position, but since 2jz isn't interference you can just assemble at TDC.
As long as you have TDC marked on the crank pulley correctly (verify before putting the head back on) all you have to do is line up the crank with TDC and the cams at 12 and you are good to go.

Was the engine running ok like that? seems like the timing would have been quite off. your piston tops look black like nothing was combusting properly (timing was retarded I am guessing).
I would guess someone did the timing belt job looking at the manual and confused TDC with the assembly position, which is not hard to do.

Once you get TDC sorted and set to 0, get the head back on and the cam marks pointing at 12 oclock, verify the distributor rotor is pointing to cylinder number 1.
If it is pointing to 6, then take the distributor out and re align and inset it. The ecu gets the signals from the distributor and it has 2 cam signals, one at TDC 1 and another at TDC 6.
On a gte these would be picked up automatically, but with a distributor you have to verify if you have the timing out, so I am mentioning it cause there is a chance you might end up 180 out since its not at TDC right now.

TDC should look pretty close to this, the pistons should be almost flat with the deck or basically flat. I might be a hair before TDC in this picture but its pretty close.
So first throw the crank pulley back on with the head off like this, and turn it until the number 1 piston is at the top and see which mark lines up, should be the white one.
You might have to turn crank twice before that happens, and remember to only turn it clockwise.
After you got that verified then do the head installation and then the distributor installation mentioned above.

Polarisman

All of the pins on the MAP side connector are seated properly and everything...I'm just wondering if buying an eBay pigtail harness they were using similar but not same female pins that may have slightly bigger tolerancing (or just wider openings to begin with). Either way, since I put the dilectric grease in them I haven't had a problem, but I will probably pull the pins out of the connector in the off season or if it creates an issue again, and pinch them closed a bit more to improve the connection.

The plugs I have are BKR 7 EIX, based on your recommendation earlier on in the build process. I just didn't gap them down at all from where they are now, I was figuring the lower boost I wouldn't have issues with blowout but it makes sense that I would since the S366 moves a lot of air even at those lower boost levels.

I have a turbosmart MBC, the only adjustments I have are the boost pressure (and if it is the same as the older one I had before, there is a "gate pressure" spring and ball bearing in there...IIRC if you remove it you will have slightly slower spool but it won't spike and level out as they typically do, it will just come up to your boost level. I'm debating doing this mod to the MBC, then upping the boost slightly. Should keep the trans and head gasket happy without a 14-15psi boost spike, and probably come on a bit quicker than it is now because of the ECU stuff you mentioned.

I'm a bit weary of upping the boost at all though...Any idea what the stock clutch is capable of holding for torque before it starts to slip? Only asking because I do have a centerforce clutch in there, but where it was installed by the previous owner, I have no idea what compound or "stage" clutch it is...I'm just treating it like a stock clutch in terms of holding capability, etc.

If it seems like I can get away with 13-14psi on 91-93 octane pump gas at 8 degrees base timing on that turbo, let me know. You have way more experience then I have with various setup's results. I'm assuming with the higher boost it will lessen the spark blowout since the AFR will be leaner, but I'm not sure. What I was seeing was around 11.1:1 and I typically use 11.5-11.8:1 as a safe limit. I just don't know if turning it up to lean out to that point is smart, as I don't know where detonation becomes an issue on stock compression and 8 degrees timing.

Thanks for the insight. Doing an oil change today, and hopefully driving it to work for the first time tomorrow for commuter duty. We'll see.

Matt