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@silentkill I found this diagram while doing research on using vvti coil with ecumaster black. Just something worth making sure that you have it configured and wired correctly.
@silentkill I found this diagram while doing research on using vvti coil with ecumaster black. Just something worth making sure that you have it configured and wired correctly.
2jz vvti coil - ecumaster
That's exactly how i have it wired and setup, we moved to an offset firing order due to us switching the cam sensor around.
So mine is setup as 2,3,1 2,3,1
Then my injector phase is setup as 5,3,6,2,4,1
I did confirm the trigger settings are for one revolution of the crank (or so im told with ecumaster because its cam driven). I tried pulling fuel on cranking and the VE table 1 and got some sputters but nothing notable.
This will definitely not be a daily driver if it ever gets started haha. I want to t56 magnum this car and go a little bananas.
I've confirmed no vac leaks except some air coming out of the idle valve when the car is off? i assume its just not parking it because i dont have it setup.
I've confirmed every ignition output and injector output using ecumasters test utility.
Current consensus is either bad gas or the 450 in take is pushing through the stock regulator and we have no idea what the actual base pressure is and flooding the engine.
did you get it started? I am not sure what you said above about the offset firing order is the right way to do it. You should make it work with as close to standard settings or troubleshooting will get difficult.
did you get it started? I am not sure what you said above about the offset firing order is the right way to do it. You should make it work with as close to standard settings or troubleshooting will get difficult.
Not yet, ive almost got the pieces to convert from the stock regulator to my aeromotive. I shoulda just ran AN lines at this point haha.
If it doesn't start after this i'm taking a break and parking the car for awhile so i can get my jeep ready for winter.
Didn't realize you were going to go all that deep into the fuel system still. It's nice but adds alot of variables to the setup to work out. I think you'll get it sorted or just figure out a different ecu setup or tune.
Yeah winter just hit here in denver, got a few inches of snow and everyone is crashing into everything this morning, radio said 55 accidents during the morning commute just in denver alone.
AN line just came in, i'll let you know how it goes with known stable fuel pressure. I have a feeling my gas is kinda bad so im going to swap that out as well with some fresh stuff.
I fully deleted the fuel pump ecu now, have a 40amp relay bolted right where it was, 10awg from the battery to the relay, 10awg into the tank to the pump, 30amp fuse up front. triggered by the ecu so thats nice. Getting random donations of useful stuff from friend's racecars haha.
Dang! It doesnt really snow until end of december here so im safe for a bit. Excited to see how my 2dr jeep on 35's does in snow haha
Welp, i am beyond confused at this point. Got my aeromotive all setup, fresh 93 in the thing, it cranks fine, everything is reading okay (my tps is reading a little high thats odd but ill have to adjust it) and it still does nothing, i got a couple pops out of it and that was it.
Think i might borrow my buddies compression tester and just verify this thing actually could run. I dont see why it wouldn't it ran fine before.
Update:
I posted on the ecu group again and another fellow NAT guy checked over my tune as he's got a similar setup, he corrected my injector data, lowered my timing, and added prime fuel which i basically had flatlined before.
It made a giant backfire then basically did nothing, he suggested i resync the timing, i might pop the distributor out and go back a tooth and resync it. He thinks it must be retarded to be backfiring.
Honestly i dont think this ecu plays friendly with NA-T GE or something. I emailed their support so hopefully something comes of it or i might end up at a V2
It sounds to me like your issue is with the timing. If you have air, fuel, and spark, then it's gotta be ignition timing holding things up. I went through this with my starion that I had set up on megasquirt and all it would do is crank and occasionally sputter until I had the dizzy stabbed in the right place. Keep at it, you aren't off far.
It sounds to me like your issue is with the timing. If you have air, fuel, and spark, then it's gotta be ignition timing holding things up. I went through this with my starion that I had set up on megasquirt and all it would do is crank and occasionally sputter until I had the dizzy stabbed in the right place. Keep at it, you aren't off far.
New development: i have intake leaks like a ****. I've had the dizzy stabbed 1 of 2 ways which both have to be pretty close. Current i marked the gear figured out how much it 'rests' when the gear syncs with the cam and i clicked it back enough so that it should be 100% lined up with the dist mark. I replaced the thin gasket between the lower and upper and the thing almost starts but i sprayed some soapy water on the gaps and pressurized and found multiple leaks so i think at this point im going to pull the upper and lower and get the TIG'd by my friend.
Everytime i clean the plugs and clear the cyl's i get 500-700 rpm start for about 2 seconds and then it falls on it face. We manually forced o2 heat to see AFR and it's leaning out i assume from all the air leaks/tune not perfectly setup. It improved the starting situation from nothing to something with the intake gasket so im going to work my way at that and see what happens.
Don't forget you swapped the wires on the distributor at some point above.
Cam triggers for TDC #1 and TDC #6 are not interchangeable with true sequential, even thought they look the same.
I would set it back to stock wiring wise if you can, and figure the rest out in software.
Don't forget people looking at your tune won't know your wiring changes from stock unless you both did it the same way.
It really shouldn't be that hard to get it started, I think you have some settings off or where it transitions into the main map the fuel/timing is way off.
The aem v1/v2 I want to say need an igniter. Some people rewire them in by the ecu when doing a wire tuck, which might be easier at this point depending on how you rewired your harness.
Don't forget you swapped the wires on the distributor at some point above.
Cam triggers for TDC #1 and TDC #6 are not interchangeable with true sequential, even thought they look the same.
I would set it back to stock wiring wise if you can, and figure the rest out in software.
Don't forget people looking at your tune won't know your wiring changes from stock unless you both did it the same way.
It really shouldn't be that hard to get it started, I think you have some settings off or where it transitions into the main map the fuel/timing is way off.
The aem v1/v2 I want to say need an igniter. Some people rewire them in by the ecu when doing a wire tuck, which might be easier at this point depending on how you rewired your harness.
I do want to swap back and see if i get cam signal at tdc1 but we weren't getting any which was odd. Either way we just offset the firing order to accommodate that. I make them aware of the change.
We have been having cam signal drop out under 200 rpm but anything above it, it's syncing okay. I have a lot of air leaks going on i think causing a problem.
Well that's fun, same symptoms with the intake welded together and OEM head to intake gasket.
Haven't checked all the things yet as i busted my butt to get that installed last night. Still building no vacuum cranking at 200rpm.
Did i goof up the timing belt? seems unlikely as I've checked it quite a few times but we did find that weirdness when i took it apart. Is this 97 a weird year or something haha.
Is the plenum so large that it wont build a vac at 200 rpm?
before i pulled it apart last time i could get 500-700 little spurts if i cleaned the plugs well and air dried the cyl's so maybe ill try it again later, maybe it was still fouled out from last time i tried starting.
I showed a friend whos put plenty of JZ together the belt is correct.
I do want to swap back and see if i get cam signal at tdc1 but we weren't getting any which was odd. Either way we just offset the firing order to accommodate that. I make them aware of the change.
We have been having cam signal drop out under 200 rpm but anything above it, it's syncing okay. I have a lot of air leaks going on i think causing a problem.
I have been trying to tell you this is not the right way to do it and is unlikely to work how you have it in your head.
You cannot substitute td6 and move everything over 3 cylinders unless you are running pure wasted park with batch fire injection, or change all the settings related to order which is really tricky.
Even in that case the teeth and injection numbers would have to be reconfigured.
If you only changed the firing order, and not the injection order, then that is the problem... but I would still put it all back to stock and set it up normally vs changing the injection order.
Set all the tdc triggers back to stock wiring and make it work in the programming with the normal basemap with the little changes needed only for the coils.
If you don't do that I can't really help you much more cause I am 99% sure that is your problem, or it is related to that.
It would be alot easier to solve why you aren't seeing tdc1, than to reconfigure everything to start half way through the engine cycle.
You won't see a signal below 200 rpm's generally, that is normal. normal cranking speed is around 400 rpm's, so something might be slowing your motor down if it isn't making it there.
Originally Posted by silentkill
Well that's fun, same symptoms with the intake welded together and OEM head to intake gasket.
Haven't checked all the things yet as i busted my butt to get that installed last night. Still building no vacuum cranking at 200rpm.
Did i goof up the timing belt? seems unlikely as I've checked it quite a few times but we did find that weirdness when i took it apart. Is this 97 a weird year or something haha.
Is the plenum so large that it wont build a vac at 200 rpm?
before i pulled it apart last time i could get 500-700 little spurts if i cleaned the plugs well and air dried the cyl's so maybe ill try it again later, maybe it was still fouled out from last time i tried starting.
the timing belt is straight forward on all 2jz's even vvti, the notches either line up at the cam and crank, or they don't. if they do you are good.
I have started 2jz's with all sorts of vacuum leaks or things incorrectly setup, have even started them with the wrong map sensor readings etc... with different FFIM's including the one you are using.
If its is more than 60 degrees outside and you can't just get it to start and sort of idle, something is majorly wrong in the settings as it is really not that difficult to get it started once (not talking about reliably every time here).
When you start to get good firing and compression, you will see the vac needle blip as its cranking over. if it isn't blipping or building any vacuum your ignition or injection timing is probably off.
It is also possible there is something going on with the integrated ignitor in the ecu thing, as I have always used toyota ignitors with standalones.
If I had to take a guess, your staggered tdc 6 signal instead of td1 is causing fueling issues or other unforseen issues with that particular ecu (some ecus can figure it out), even if you went in and manually changed things like ignition firing order (phasing) and injection order.
Remember it is not just the ignition firing order you are changing, you are also changing the injection order (the lag time can probably stay the same).
Just my .02c try taking a step back and starting from the beginning, cause I have seen alot of ecu's and setups over the years, have helped many members solve problems deep in their calibrations etc.. and I have never seen anyone do what you are doing.
I would have to hear it to be sure, but what you are saying sounds like incorrect injection order or timing to me. usually results in a super rich mixture and washing out the spark before you even get going as fuel collects in the chamber and ports from lots of missed combustion events. Generally you get random pops cause sometimes the right amount of fuel will be sitting at the port when the ignition does happen (usually on startup due to the cold start fuel which is generally batch injected) but after that you just wash down the plugs and get alot of nothing. you know when it falls on its face after 1-2 seconds its running just off the cold start fuel, so when it tries to go to actual injection it sounds like it fails right there everytime.
I want to say the AEM v1 and v2 both need an ignitor, most of the ecu's do actually. I would probably use an external anyways as they generate alot of heat, and if that is happening inside the ecu that is just more heat where you don't want it.
I have been trying to tell you this is not the right way to do it and is unlikely to work how you have it in your head.
You cannot substitute td6 and move everything over 3 cylinders unless you are running pure wasted park with batch fire injection.
Even in that case the teeth and injection would have to be reconfigured.
Set all the tdc triggers back to stock wiring and make it work in the programming with the normal basemap with the little changes needed only for the coils.
If you don't do that I can't really help you much more cause I am 99% sure that is your problem, or it is related to that.
the timing belt is straight forward on all 2jz's even vvti, the notches either line up at the cam and crank, or they don't. if they do you are good.
I have started 2jz's with all sorts of vacuum leaks or things incorrectly setup, have even started them with the wrong map sensor readings etc...
If its is more than 60 degrees outside and you can't just get it to start and sort of idle, something is majorly wrong in the settings as it is really not that difficult to get it started once (not talking about reliably every time here).
If I had to take a guess, your staggered tdc 6 signal instead of td1 is causing fueling issues or other unforseen issues with that particular ecu (some ecus can figure it out), even if you went in and manually changed things like ignition firing order (phasing) and injection order.
Remember it is not just the ignition firing order you are changing, you are also changing the injection order (the lag time can probably stay the same).
Just my .02c try taking a step back and starting from the beginning, cause I have seen alot of ecu's and setups over the years, have helped many members solve problems deep in their calibrations etc.. and I have never seen anyone do what you are doing.
I want to say the AEM v1 and v2 both need an ignitor, most of the ecu's do actually. I would probably use an external anyways as they generate alot of heat, and if that is happening inside the ecu that is just more heat where you don't want it.
Okay I will revert the TDC6 cam signal and try #1 again and revert my firing order and injection order.
09-27-19, 06:34 PM
