NA-T Questions?? Ask the Guru
#121
Lexus Test Driver
Why are you doing the extra injector stuff on a standalone? its not as consistent. I would pull the 330's and drop in some 1000cc ev14 injectors and call it a day, and then in the future you will only have to tweak that tune not start over... at the very least just go 550c all around, good luck!!
I was looking at top feed high impedance 11mm ID1000's last night, just don't want to spend that much now and would need to upgrade my fuel system further. Ultimately I think I would like to hit 18psi on straight E85. Also, my fuel system just won't support it. Right now, I've got stock GE rail that has been altered (also, pulsation dampener removed), and I've got a 7M turbo fuel pump with stock fuel pump ECU. Do you know the highest flowing pump I can put in and still fit (or relatively fit) the stock fuel pump basket? Also one that will still work with the stock fuel pump ECU? I was looking at an Aeromotive 1:1 FPR, and dual walbros, but then I've got fuel lines to run, etc. It all gets pretty pricey.
#122
You are all over the place so let me help you out a little bit, I have no filter so if I am too straight forward thats just the only way I can convince people from the misinformation people pass along all the time. forget what the legacy setup was, its in your best interest to do so.
first, you have a 1:1 fuel pressure regulator right now, unless you want to "bling" stuff and spend extra money keep the stock one. the only reason to upgrade is when you go to larger lines and the stock becomes a restriction, so you save $ there and the stock one will work better.
sounds like the E85 is in the future cause you would need a whole system overhaul for that, so I will give you recommendations based on pump gas.
stock fuel rail and alerted is all fine, the 7m pump not sure how much it flows but I and lots of people run a walboro. if you want a little more than a TT denso pump but it can fry the stock fuel ecu, but you just run a relay off the fuel ecu output and run 12v to the pump. you can do that with the walboro or even the 7m one and you will get more flow, but its necessary with the tt pump cause it flows the most for a stock like pump and takes a lot of power.
What are your power goals, if you are on stock compression you aren't making more than 500 ish safely/reliably (some have done more but you would need an excellent tuner and they would tell you what setup they want to tune on), and you can do that on the stock lines.
I would say forget all the extras, definaetly forget the 2 additional injectors unless you want to blow a headgasket sooner or later, and grab some 660cc injectors at the least. you can get them online for $300 ish. if you can afford the EV14 1000cc save up and go for those cause later you can still use those with E85 and hit 700hp, and you can even do that on the stock rail but you will need larger lines and different filter and whole fuel overhaul basically.
I cannot stress enough that you need to drop the additional injector idea, introducing the fuel charge that early in the intake is not a good idea.
It works and gets the job done and was how early turbo kits did it, but its not great for fine tuning, and you have potential for disastrous results if anything goes wrong between the intake and the valves like something getting hot enough to set off that mixture, its no bueno. there will always be people out there that will be like, oh the fuel will cool down the charge and blah blah blah, until one day the thing rips itself apart. don't be one of those guys. get a real set of injectors and do it right cause your standalone can definitely handle any size injector, so to have 2 extra rigged ones is going back like 15 years in technology, you will need to run another line etc.. you couldn't pay me to do it. Im sending you a link for some 850cc injectors that are very reasonable.
I have run stock 330 @10 psi, 550cc rx7 injectors, 1000cc ev14 injectors, 750cc ev14 injectors, and now I am back on 550cc denso's. my fav by far were the 1000cc ev14 when I was on standalone, but the other ones worked fine for pump gas except the rx7 ones were super touchy. I do not recommend rx7 injectors anymore the spray pattern is off for a JZ motor, just grab regular denso 550's for a piston engine. thats why I tell people on standalone just go 1000cc ev14 if you can afford it, cause by the time you have swapped injectors a half dozen times and soldered in so many clips your back is permanently humped... you will wish you just saved up the first round. heck if I was doing e85, 1000cc would be the minumum, I would likely go 1200-2000cc ev14 but those are double the price.
first, you have a 1:1 fuel pressure regulator right now, unless you want to "bling" stuff and spend extra money keep the stock one. the only reason to upgrade is when you go to larger lines and the stock becomes a restriction, so you save $ there and the stock one will work better.
sounds like the E85 is in the future cause you would need a whole system overhaul for that, so I will give you recommendations based on pump gas.
stock fuel rail and alerted is all fine, the 7m pump not sure how much it flows but I and lots of people run a walboro. if you want a little more than a TT denso pump but it can fry the stock fuel ecu, but you just run a relay off the fuel ecu output and run 12v to the pump. you can do that with the walboro or even the 7m one and you will get more flow, but its necessary with the tt pump cause it flows the most for a stock like pump and takes a lot of power.
What are your power goals, if you are on stock compression you aren't making more than 500 ish safely/reliably (some have done more but you would need an excellent tuner and they would tell you what setup they want to tune on), and you can do that on the stock lines.
I would say forget all the extras, definaetly forget the 2 additional injectors unless you want to blow a headgasket sooner or later, and grab some 660cc injectors at the least. you can get them online for $300 ish. if you can afford the EV14 1000cc save up and go for those cause later you can still use those with E85 and hit 700hp, and you can even do that on the stock rail but you will need larger lines and different filter and whole fuel overhaul basically.
I cannot stress enough that you need to drop the additional injector idea, introducing the fuel charge that early in the intake is not a good idea.
It works and gets the job done and was how early turbo kits did it, but its not great for fine tuning, and you have potential for disastrous results if anything goes wrong between the intake and the valves like something getting hot enough to set off that mixture, its no bueno. there will always be people out there that will be like, oh the fuel will cool down the charge and blah blah blah, until one day the thing rips itself apart. don't be one of those guys. get a real set of injectors and do it right cause your standalone can definitely handle any size injector, so to have 2 extra rigged ones is going back like 15 years in technology, you will need to run another line etc.. you couldn't pay me to do it. Im sending you a link for some 850cc injectors that are very reasonable.
I have run stock 330 @10 psi, 550cc rx7 injectors, 1000cc ev14 injectors, 750cc ev14 injectors, and now I am back on 550cc denso's. my fav by far were the 1000cc ev14 when I was on standalone, but the other ones worked fine for pump gas except the rx7 ones were super touchy. I do not recommend rx7 injectors anymore the spray pattern is off for a JZ motor, just grab regular denso 550's for a piston engine. thats why I tell people on standalone just go 1000cc ev14 if you can afford it, cause by the time you have swapped injectors a half dozen times and soldered in so many clips your back is permanently humped... you will wish you just saved up the first round. heck if I was doing e85, 1000cc would be the minumum, I would likely go 1200-2000cc ev14 but those are double the price.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 09-09-16 at 10:24 AM.
#123
Thanks! When I was looking the other day, those popped up and seemed like a decent choice. I'm sure I'll have questions once I try to fire this thing up with the EMS... Still unsure if I should just wait till I have cash and do everything at once, or do a base tune on the WG spring (5lbs) for now and take my time learning the EMS. If I could get it running, get a map reasonable then tune the WOT stuff with a few hrs on the dyno. I've watched the Jonathan Fasking videos (13 of them?) on Youtube at least twice now. What do you think of his EMS advice? Have you seen the videos? Oh, also, I've got a MSD 6BTM ignition box as well ---hoping that doesn't interfere with the AEM
step 1 is getting everything setup correctly, all sensors etc, plumbed right, reading right. If you have a map sensor issue or IAT issue and you go to tune you wasted a bunch of time and money and there is a chance you can damage stuff, so take your time and do that right. I once cut the o2 connector wire off and the shielding was grounding to the signal wire in the middle, and it would throw off my map sensor when it randomly grounded out. took a while to figure out but any little thing you do can throw off the electrical system, so step 1 is the most important make sure that wiring and setup and vacuum routing is PERFECT!
step 2 is getting it to start. you get the basemap loaded and adjusted for injectors dead time, and then play with starting fuel (initial crank pulse and crank angle are the ones most tuners play with to get it to fire off on the aem, mostly initial crank pulse for fuel).
once you can get it to start then depending on where you are AFR wise you move the whole basemap up and down until its reasonable. at this stage you immediately check the timing with a timing light, don't even rev the motor up till you do this. You will set it roughly right now, and then when the motor is at full operating temp (when you get that far), you will double check and do a final adjustment cause it can change.
now at this point you will have a starting and idling car with the right timing and not trying to self destruct, then you can start tweaking the fuel and ignition maps. majority of the time the car will freak out as soon as you apply any load, that is where the tuning comes in.
so step 3 is tuning your "vacuum" map. what I mean is that you don't go straight to tuning for boost (I wish), you have to tune the part of the map that you normally drive in really well or guess what?? you won't spool your turbo correctly and you will just end up retuning your lower boost cells later. also you will want to drive your car around normally too right.. unless its a pure drag car and still as I said you would still tune some to get the best spool.
So you can see thats alot of stuff to get to step 3 and do step 3 and have it idling, driving, and cruising properly. This is the hardest part of an EMS setup and what most people gloss over and find themselves in a world of hurt later, or they pay a good tuner who does this and you don't have to learn a thing about it.
So when you say tune for 6 psi or 12 psi or 18 psi, my answer is it doesn't matter that much, cause if you tune for anything lets say 6 psi for example, that includes all the above stuff that you need for all 3. And when you go to tune boost, it actually the easiest thing to tune compared to everyting else. I had my car tuned for 11 psi, and later I ran 18 psi an all I did was make sure the timing in the map looked reasonable (conservative) and do a few logs on knock for some pulls, and that was it I didn't even need to take it back to a tuner, but if I did it wouldn't be as expensive as the initial tune.
So you don't have to wait, but I would at least wait until you have enough injector and tune for at least 8+ psi, anything else is just at tickle and you can hit that even with stock 330's at full duty cycle, although get at least some 550's and you can have plenty of fun for now and change it later. Keep in mind though going up higher in boost does not need a whole retune, but changing injector types can really throw off a tune, like going from oldschool the ev14. sure there is a dead time adjustment, but it rarely works out perfect usually tweaking all over is required, which is why I say injector wise wait and go for what you will ultimately want, you will save in tuning cost or tuning time if you are doing it yourself, and it takes time either way.
If you are savvy and learn quickly, its not that bad to get a street tune in a day and dial in the WOT on a dyno in a couple hours, just realize it doesn't always go that smoothly, but I would start i wouldnt wait until going for max boost necessarily as that is the easiest part to tune, and even if you raise the boost without tuning just set the timing conservative, and you can still safely pick up power until you dial it in later. there is not much fuel adjustment cause it goes off of boost, so as long as you have the right curve in your fuel map (highest at max torque and drops off as you hit max rpm) what works fuel wise for lower boost levels will be close to the same setting for the higher ones and you just tune it a point or so richer AFR wise until you can get dyno time in.
so with the MSD you are on the stock distributor, but to be honest its redundant cause your EMS has all those features on it basically except for the multiple spark thing, and it can get confusing fast... really no body does that so I would 100% sell that and go coilpacks. if you have to keep the dizzy pick up the 1 channel HKS DLI for the n/a, still its a bandaid. the stock distributor just has limitations and then the turbo intake pipe clearance its terrible with a 4" pipe. its a fail. once you go turbo look to coilpacks.
vvti coils are the easiest to put in, you can run a larger plug gap, and you will pick up more power, no reason not too you can get all the coils wire and extra's for the same price as the MSD box.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 09-09-16 at 12:51 PM.
#124
Lead Lap
iTrader: (1)
So on the way home from the local bbq meet I went to pass a car on the highway, I've been babying this thing while breaking in the clutch so I haven't gone under full boost. Well when I did, right around 4500, she fell on her face. check engine light came on for a few seconds and then cleared. Car drove just fine immediately after the face plant. Any ideas why?
I feel that I've heard of this before, but I can't seem to find where it was.
I feel that I've heard of this before, but I can't seem to find where it was.
#126
Lead Lap
iTrader: (1)
ill give that a shot, though it shouldn't be even engaging, I have it set to 2 PSI with a 10 pound spring on the wastegate. The grimspeed guys (right across the hwy) told me to slowly turn it up until I noticed an increase in PSI over 10 pounds. Somewhere else I might check is my coil packs are off of a 2000 SC it might be just wearing out a bit. My plugs are gapped .28 heat range 7 so I shouldn't be blowing out. I'll report back on the boost controller
#127
do you have a boost gauge... when boost cut happens it cuts off the power and the light blinks at you about 2-3 times, then it gives you full control back, exactly like what you said and since that was your first time going full boost I would say that pretty much has to be it. even a bad coil will let you sputter higher in the rpm range, but boost cut takes away everything.
it should be fine at 10 psi or even 12 psi, but remember with a mechanical it can go higher on cold days etc... and you can't set it off the car with a compressor very accurately, you need to do small adjustments on the car. usually when dialing in the PSI below boost cut, I hit it many times before I find that sweet spot where it won't do it. there is also the possibility your spring is not a 10 psi spring, when I first installed mine I was given like a 18 psi spring and led to believe it was less, I had to order my own 8 psi spring in fact. so maybe try taking the boost controller off temporarily and see where the spring goes till, cause you cannot run less boost than the spring, a boost controller will only let you run more than the spring.
it should be fine at 10 psi or even 12 psi, but remember with a mechanical it can go higher on cold days etc... and you can't set it off the car with a compressor very accurately, you need to do small adjustments on the car. usually when dialing in the PSI below boost cut, I hit it many times before I find that sweet spot where it won't do it. there is also the possibility your spring is not a 10 psi spring, when I first installed mine I was given like a 18 psi spring and led to believe it was less, I had to order my own 8 psi spring in fact. so maybe try taking the boost controller off temporarily and see where the spring goes till, cause you cannot run less boost than the spring, a boost controller will only let you run more than the spring.
#128
Lead Lap
iTrader: (1)
do you have a boost gauge... when boost cut happens it cuts off the power and the light blinks at you about 2-3 times, then it gives you full control back, exactly like what you said and since that was your first time going full boost I would say that pretty much has to be it. even a bad coil will let you sputter higher in the rpm range, but boost cut takes away everything.
it should be fine at 10 psi or even 12 psi, but remember with a mechanical it can go higher on cold days etc... and you can't set it off the car with a compressor very accurately, you need to do small adjustments on the car. usually when dialing in the PSI below boost cut, I hit it many times before I find that sweet spot where it won't do it. there is also the possibility your spring is not a 10 psi spring, when I first installed mine I was given like a 18 psi spring and led to believe it was less, I had to order my own 8 psi spring in fact. so maybe try taking the boost controller off temporarily and see where the spring goes till, cause you cannot run less boost than the spring, a boost controller will only let you run more than the spring.
it should be fine at 10 psi or even 12 psi, but remember with a mechanical it can go higher on cold days etc... and you can't set it off the car with a compressor very accurately, you need to do small adjustments on the car. usually when dialing in the PSI below boost cut, I hit it many times before I find that sweet spot where it won't do it. there is also the possibility your spring is not a 10 psi spring, when I first installed mine I was given like a 18 psi spring and led to believe it was less, I had to order my own 8 psi spring in fact. so maybe try taking the boost controller off temporarily and see where the spring goes till, cause you cannot run less boost than the spring, a boost controller will only let you run more than the spring.
#129
Can you do an EGR delete on an OBD2 sc300? I am using a USDM TT ECU (also OBD2) to avoid a CEL an passing inspection.
Side note, I know the JDM ecu runs much better but passing inspection is more of a priority at first. I will switch to the JDM afterwards to make my life easier.
Side note, I know the JDM ecu runs much better but passing inspection is more of a priority at first. I will switch to the JDM afterwards to make my life easier.
#131
Ok so the resister on an obd1 prevents the check engine light, that's what I'm asking about on an obd2 tho instead. Wanted to know if it was going to be the same. I want to get rid of the egr.
I'm using the TT ecu OBD2 if that was any help
I'm using the TT ecu OBD2 if that was any help
#132
I think it is but I am not 100% positive, I know people delete them on obd2 supras alot. maybe get the resistor and try it out before removnig the egr, you just unplug the connector for the temp plug and stick the resistor in there, wont take more than 15 minutes to find out.
#133
Okay so upon further digging, I came across this thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-1st-gen-1992-2000/545757-egr-cel-resistor-fix.html.
It seems like it is possible on an obd2. That's a good sign. I'm in the process of doing my head gasket and then the FFIM install so I can't really test it out at the moment.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-1st-gen-1992-2000/545757-egr-cel-resistor-fix.html.
It seems like it is possible on an obd2. That's a good sign. I'm in the process of doing my head gasket and then the FFIM install so I can't really test it out at the moment.
#134
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (6)
The cover was from Halon, its one of the older pre carbon fiber ones, still have to finish polishing but you know... engine first. As of now I feel I have been very lucky, but then again I took my time and read the NA-t posts over and over till I felt like I got It nailed down in my head before I started cutting her up. Thanks again ALI sc3 and StudioGeek we will be back in NY at BBK in a few months, Ill give you a heads up.
PLEASE DO!
See you when you get here! Car looks great man! Congrats!
#135
Silly question, but I want to clarify : Step 6: A/C Relay (when using Aristo ecu, Supra ecu not needed).
This applies to the SUPRA ECU A/T ?
If so, is there a list for part number somewhere to identify that it is indeed Supra and not Aristo?
This applies to the SUPRA ECU A/T ?
If so, is there a list for part number somewhere to identify that it is indeed Supra and not Aristo?