Lex Luthor

Angel, yeah it's an affliction, wish I golf'd.

TurboSC, very cool, but i've windowed the block so badly it would make a holey table, kinda ghetto.

Chris, no plug and play application for VVT-i, besides the NA-T record and VVT-i record are both held by a Haltech car, it's tried and proven. Also, look at the GS that SP just did, that car made 600 rwtq at 22 lbs on a leeetle SP61GT. That's unbelievable, and SP attributes it to the variable valve timing.

PHiZ

Do you have a strategy for tunning the VVTI with the a standalone? Which standalone are you considering, I'd consult with Bet Strader from efi101.com, he had some opinions on the infinitly variable cam technology, and is a very highly regarded tuner/instructor.

-PHiZ

Richie

Very cool man, looking foreward to your updates.
Wedding comes 1st man, go make it a huge party!! We will still be here when you're done, LOL.

legendary

Wow LL, I am sorry to hear of this misfortune...hat's off to you though. Regardless you are determined to own that title, and show and prove that NA-T can be done as well as a GTE version. Best of luck in this endeavour...I, as many others are pulling for you.

Best regards,
LDM

SC300TURBO

iTrader: (2)

glad to see you have recoverd....i tried to get ahold of you before but havent been successfull...

i believe i warned ya about the timming and vvti..its a totaly different monster..
glad you made it out of the disaster ok.....
lemme know if you wanna bring the car to the guy that made that VVTI 9sec 700+rwhp haltech car..//
im sure lance would be happy to see ya..
whens the wedding?..mines is NOV
Jeff

Lex Luthor

Jeff, good to hear from ya bud, i'll PM you with the correct #. Looks like the entire problem may be related to the way JBE wired up a couple things, so should I have sent it to Toyomoto or SP in the first place? Absolutely. I'll now be correcting that mistake, after all that's happened i'm having the car transported to Chicago to have SP redo it. They've had great success with the two vvt-i cars they just did, one Haltech and one e-Manage. I take nothing away from Lance whatsoever, just got the impression he was too busy for me, hope you don't take that the wrong way J.H. Going to have them swing a new TT block, add an ESC-1, and tune the e-manage on the dyno, which has now been proven to work perfectly with the vvt-i cars once the signal conditioner is added to address long term fuel correction, and i'm partial to this method of mgt as it allowed me to maintain literally 100% of the Lexus idle quality, part-throttle driveability, and cold start....I was amazed at how smooth and crisp it was. MOHD is now making 685 rwhp with one, and it's a mild setup. If it ends up being a limitation it will eventually be replaced, but I have more pressing issues right now, just want to get it back and daily drive the damn thing, it's been under construction now for longer than it was on the road for! Disaster, everybody is so freakin' dramatic around here! So a chunk of the block blew apart and severed the fuel line, it's not like I got my tie caught in the copier and suffocated or anything, the way some ppl sounded I thought they were gonna send flowers . Very glad to hear Aly is locking you down in Nov, I wish you both the best. Mine is next June, put it off as much as I could but she was starting to get suspicious .

- JonJon

Richie

LOL, sorry dude, we'll be less dramatic in the future .

SC300TURBO

iTrader: (2)

they just care about ya jonjon...thats all....
i was under the impression that SP was doing your car from the start?...guess im wrong...
glad everything is cool....let me know if i can help...Jeff

DIrEctQL

Cool Jon! I am sure SP will be able to do it right. Guess I'll be able to snap some pictures of your car while it's here if you don't mind.

I think the reason why people were so dramatic is because you said it blew in a way that could have hurt you. When I read that I thought something went through the firewall and barly missed you. Glad that didn't happen.

Chris

Lex Luthor

Nah, there's a local shop here called JBE Racing, I thought it would be good to have it done by a shop in NY so I could document the buildup and check in on it. They told me they were capable of performing the work but they were not. Two weeks turned into five or six months, and in the end I got nothing but a blown up car and a bunch of debt. The owner John Belderes (and the only one that works there as it turns out) has a poor work ethic, there's a couple cars that have been in that shop for years, I never saw a single car get completed in the months that mine was there. As you guys all know by now he blew two motors and cost me so much money it has had an impact on my non-car life. Everyone is amazed he was able to blow a brand new TT block. So now it's going to Sound to redo everything. With all that's happened i'm not going for big #'s yet, just want a reliable daily driver right now, but I have booked plenty of time on the dyno to get a real smooth conservative tune.

Chris, sent you a PM.

TRDSupraSE

Wow Jon,


I just read the last couple pages and I'm glad you're okay. Looks like the block exploded

SP should treat you right. Just make sure you plan things out with Lar and Gary ahead of time before you send your car over....they are VERY busy. I learned the hard way having to wait for parts and leaving my car there for a couple months. Also I was very new to the whole NA-T thing so I guess I got in over my head at the time.

Have you seen the pic of Lar...dude its hilarious

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...hreadid=182744


Anyways, say hi to Lar when you go to SP

boostman0

To all that have been following the bulidup on john gitletz's (lex luthor)sc300 i am the "tuner" (jbe )that is "incompetent and lazy" in his eyes..., ....he may have left out a few minor details,so i will fill in the blanks....jon came to me by rec. of my friend and his co worker at the time, around july of 03, he said he was lookin to turbo his sc300..somwhat like his friends sc300 (gaget)..i told him i would take on the project but i was very busy with projects at the time(as always),and that i would get him in when other cars in line were complete...he told me he was finished gathering parts to do his project. and now i was costing him money because he couldnt sell his sc400 cause he needed to drive it in the interm while the 300 was in the shop...??...i told him i needed more time and if couldnt wait there would be no hard feelings if he went to somone else....he got the car in around the last week in aug....told me that he had everything to do the conversion....swaped headgaskets,installed turbo ,manifold etc...intercooler kit was for a 2jzsupra ..so i pretty much fabbed all the ic.plumbing ,using some of the kit that he supplied....things did take longer than expected(as most of u know)......because of the attention to detail i like to show in my work..(even if u are paying the price of a front mount intercooler install, and getting a full turbo conversion with a headgasket swap gauges,etc...)..the car was up and running jon and i went out and did some tuning using a motec plm a/f meter.....there seemed to be a stumble or misfire going into boost...(light throttle around 7-8pi..) around the 3rd or fourth time we had engine failure.......???? we were both stumped... thought it may have been a mech. failure not knowing the past history of vech. (around 70k on mtr.) we had some debate....and came to a agreement that i would cover half the cost of a new 2jz shortblock and install it at no charge in good faith,then would go on to fig out the tuning issue....new motor installed..running fine,but e- manage not working correctly...we thought it may have been a problem with the e manage and sent it back to greddy to test it...still no duty cycle shown on e manage data page?..double checked wiring ..and found no issues...while checking inj. pulse on e manage at ecu plug i noticed it was not normal......i asked him if the inj he got from sp were for oem replacement(hi impedence) he said yes.....wanting to make sure , (as people not in this profession sometimes dont always get the right stuff for their app.) i checked the rest. ..turns out they were low impedence and other than overloading the stock inj. drivers, the e manage wouldnt see the signal correctly.... jon was told to use a resistor pack from a supra and prob solved.....he obtained one and installed one himself....i double checked install and all seemed ok....now here is were impaitence doe not pay off.. this was a wed eve when i checked e manage on laptop...seemed to be workin correctly...but i prob. could not spend some time tuning with him untill sat.,he persisted and i ,knowing the excitment of a completed project like this or any other, said i would spend a hour or two on thurs(the following day)..upon ariving the next morn i relized that i didnt have sufficent time to dedacate to tuning the car with possible issues that may not have been resolved....jon came by and i asked him to wait tll sat and i would give him the whole day....he didnt want to wait...asked to use my laptop to datalog while driving the car....i was reluctant, but agreed... after explaining to him that i wouldnt see anything i didnt know already without seeing a/f etc.... told him not to go anywhere into boost...and couldnt stress this enough...he said fine....he returned a few mins later...with a datalog....i took a quick look.again nothing i didnt know already...there was a 6100 rpm shift point recorded....asked him why was he letting it rpm so high...he said it feels like comp surge and was tring to "drive thorugh it"..... told him to stop and wait till sat till i could spend time with it.....well, he went out again and came back in about 2 mins later and said it "backfired"..i knew right away...another blown mtr....its a shame, time and money wasted on everyones part.....in fact ,i offered to purchase the e manage from jon in order to help him move on to a standalone system...he agreed to sell it to me...and after a few weeks i called him today and he said he was tring to fig it out and was going to keep it in the car...no mention of any thing to me about his prev. post......i have been involved in turbocharging for 17 yrs, and i have nothing to prove to anyone..my past work speaks for itself , i can say i have over the years come across many types of people ....sometimes people may need to wait ,and i do admit ,that may be my only downfall.(and prob. the only time someone is unhappy with my wk.) .....all who know jon(lex luthor), know how he is ....this is not ment to put anyone down or to blame anyone...just so that judgement against anyone isn't past without the whole story......... thanks.. john..jbe.....here is a link to some of past projects..... http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlbum.a...4447&curpage=1

motorheaddown

Actually, the previous post is very much in line with what Jon has said to me. Additionally, Jon's tuner has provided good installation pricing based on discussions Jon and I have had.

I can vouche that a first-time project of any type has risks. I appreciate Jon's tuner expressing his side of the story. It's only fair. I'm not siding with Jon or his tuner because both have the right to share their opinions.

At this point, it appears both sides have taken losses that cost money and time. I believe it's time to move on and chalk it up to lessons learned.

-scott

Lex Luthor

That was some post John, let me address a few things....


I was very very specific about what parts I would bring you and what would need to be fabbed, I screened every part choice through you first to see if you concurred. If it was all bolt-on I would've done it in my driveway, I told you from the start you'd need to fab IC piping.


As nice as that sounds, you broke my windshield (yes you replaced it after I insisted, $198 aftermarket is not as good as the oe piece, common knowledge, but no big deal), you put a scratch in my leather from apparently throwing a part back there (saw stuff back there), again not that big of a deal, lost my cam cover bolts, cost me about $1500 in full coverage for the car while it sat in your shop because you don't have insurance or if you do it doesn't cover anything (I asked you), took months to get the car in the shop (kept telling me two more weeks, two more weeks, two more weeks), then when you took the car in you ended up having it for five months and at the end of that all I had was a blown car. I asked you for a realistic estimate of how long to do the work, you told me TWO WEEKS. I figured a month. You lied to me outright, you knew you were going to SEMA and didn't tell me. Even when you returned you took two days to recooperate. You take days off without giving anyone notice, the shop will just be closed those days. You spend more time BS'ing with ppl in the shop than doing anything else, when you're backed up with work most tuners put a few extra hours in, you claim to be too old to do that anymore, and you're 35. Cars have been in that shop for years, Mark's Celica has been there for probably close to a year, the Sentra a couple years, the Mustang a couple years. Rich and Tommy are your friends and they were clearly upset that you had there cars for so long, Tommy was ready to pull his out completed or not. It's not like i'm the only disgruntled one, everyone seems to be. I'm not trying to aimlessly bash you John, i'm stating fact here. You've never picked the phone up a single time. As it turns out you miswired the O2 sensors and apparently the timing on the e-manage (i'll have more on this shortly) and enough tuners i've spoken to agree that this was the cause of both blown motors, not anything that I did. You didn't even have an OBDII scanner to check the trouble codes that came up, so how can you do tuning without knowing what's going on? The car set a CEL from moment one, you should've spent the time to make it right before it was even pulled out of your shop, ESPECIALLY after taking so many months, you'd think it would be a masterpiece


A stumble or misfire, eh? The car would start bucking as soon as it saw any boost. I cringed as you drove it, you felt you could 'drive through it' (your words), so I crossed my fingers....boom.


Your ???? gives you away. You're paid to know what's going on. A mechanical failure? Plenty of members here will post as to the durability of the 2JZ series of engines, turbocharged and with twice the mileage. You have the honor of being the only tuner to blow one up (then a 2nd one) at 7-8 psi, I never even got to drive the car, years of saving, months of waiting........... and boom.


Some debate? You absolutely refused to do the right thing, you left it on me, I called every tuner I could think of and they all said they would have taken care of it, you said everyone you talked to said they wouldn't. I refused to accept that, then you said you'd cover half the new motor but you would wash your hands of the car and I should find another shop to install the motor and finish it, that the car had a 'black cloud' over it. Those were your words. Finally after enough back and forth you agreed to cover half the motor and had me sign something to cover yourself from any further liability. Again you totally lagged in getting it back together even after swearing you'd have it done quickly. So the new TT block is in and I get the car back, drove it 500 miles completely out of boost to break in the new motor, brought it to your shop and you put me off a couple times, told me you were too busy and that the AF meter was in your own personal car. Guess what? Mine wasn't done man, should've never left your shop until you knew it was right. We both AGREED that I would do a couple of datalog runs but that I was not to see significant boost, if you recall the reason was to see if changes to fuel maps made any difference in the 'stumble' as you call it. Soon as I gave it part throttle and started building boost......boom, catastrophic failure of four out of six cylinders, rods launched through the block, fuel line got severed. That's not anything I can do, that is something way way wrong with the tuning/wiring, every 2JZ tuner i've spoken with agrees, and they were amazed to hear how very little actual tuning you had done before you drove it, let alone before I drove it.


That's funny, I never said that, but those were your exact words when you blew the first motor. Also you said you told me not to hit any boost for the datalog, that's bull, we agreed mild boost, what good is a datalog with no boost? As for telling me to stop, never happenened, I had your laptop in the car, are you telling me I stole it? Oh, and you knew right away a blown motor? That's impressive, in case you didn't hear me tell you I heard it blew to bits...what gave it away, the shower of engine fragments behind the car?


Oh you have no idea. Are we supposed to feel bad for you or something?


Oh, you're such a philanthropist. The real reason is that you had a customer that needed one, and you were going to short me on paying me for that e-man and claim I still owe you money. Yes, I know.


Then why did you join CL just to make this post?


I'm not sure what that means, but if it means I don't take sh!!t from anyone then i'm guilty as charged.





So that's both sides, if you guys have any comments either way i'm sure we'll hear them, then hopefully we can move on, the car is at SP and Chris will be down there taking some pics for me, so i'll continue to keep this thread as informative as I can.

Thanks,

Jon Gitlitz Chance

TurboB6

Wow, thats alot of reading! Sounds like very different views too. I've never heard of a tuner going through so many blocks just tuning. I don't know Jon very well but I don't think he'd embellish on the service he recieved.

Don't worry Jon SP will treat you right.