Disassemble fuel rail feed line.
05-07-17, 05:54 PM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
Disassemble fuel rail feed line.
1993 SC400 1YZFE ATM 4FC UZZ30L
On the driver's side (left) there is a flexible fuel line (P/N 90923-01388) that runs between the banjo-bolt (union) mounted below the "pulsation dampener" screwed into the fuel rail and the steel fuel line near the inner-fender. This might sound dumb, but has anyone separated the flare fitting on the metal fuel line from the flexible line? If so, how? I was able to crack the fitting loose, but about 1-2 turns out it binds VERY tight and will not go further. By tight, I mean it stops rotating and I am actually flexing the jaws on my 14mm flare-nut wrench enough that I need to remove it with a hammer. I can't figure out why it is like this unless the previous owner cross-threaded it at some point and then forced the mess together. If I do try and force it further, I'm afraid I will round off the corners on the 14mm flare fitting on the hard line. I can't imagine that this is anything but standard threaded fittings and that simple hand-tools "should" pull it apart. A replacement flexible fuel line is about $140 so I don't want to tear it apart getting them separated. I need to separate them because the connection is leaking and it will NOT stop by simply tightening it further. We have the same issue when we tighten it.. Thanks in advance if anyone can offer help.
On the driver's side (left) there is a flexible fuel line (P/N 90923-01388) that runs between the banjo-bolt (union) mounted below the "pulsation dampener" screwed into the fuel rail and the steel fuel line near the inner-fender. This might sound dumb, but has anyone separated the flare fitting on the metal fuel line from the flexible line? If so, how? I was able to crack the fitting loose, but about 1-2 turns out it binds VERY tight and will not go further. By tight, I mean it stops rotating and I am actually flexing the jaws on my 14mm flare-nut wrench enough that I need to remove it with a hammer. I can't figure out why it is like this unless the previous owner cross-threaded it at some point and then forced the mess together. If I do try and force it further, I'm afraid I will round off the corners on the 14mm flare fitting on the hard line. I can't imagine that this is anything but standard threaded fittings and that simple hand-tools "should" pull it apart. A replacement flexible fuel line is about $140 so I don't want to tear it apart getting them separated. I need to separate them because the connection is leaking and it will NOT stop by simply tightening it further. We have the same issue when we tighten it.. Thanks in advance if anyone can offer help.
05-07-17, 06:58 PM
#2
This is something that I have run into while changing the fuel filter. This is a double flare fitting, the same type used on brake systems. I have broken these in the past, and re-establishing the double flare is not a problem if you can remove the tubing from the car. Mounting the flaring tool in a vice is the easiest way, otherwise you will say a lot of bad words. it is simply impossible to hold the flaring tool by hand in order to put the required amount of torque on the fitting.
Remove the banjo connection from the fuel rail. Throw away the copper seal, and spend 8 dollars and get a new one. Don't re-use it.Then remove the entire fuel line which runs along the body stiffener under the driver side. Place the connection in a vice and use your tubing wrench, with a set of vice grips on it to keep it from spreading. if you ruin the metal line, don't freak. Simply cut the damaged double flare off close to the damage, and re-flare it. If you have never installed a double flare, rent the tool, watch some good tutorials, and rock on. just take your time, as fuel lines are serious business.
Remove the banjo connection from the fuel rail. Throw away the copper seal, and spend 8 dollars and get a new one. Don't re-use it.Then remove the entire fuel line which runs along the body stiffener under the driver side. Place the connection in a vice and use your tubing wrench, with a set of vice grips on it to keep it from spreading. if you ruin the metal line, don't freak. Simply cut the damaged double flare off close to the damage, and re-flare it. If you have never installed a double flare, rent the tool, watch some good tutorials, and rock on. just take your time, as fuel lines are serious business.
05-07-17, 08:01 PM
#3
Rookie
Thread Starter
Loudon Man
Yea,
I figured it would be a double-flare (like brake lines) since it is a fuel-line.
I already need to pull the banjo bolt apart on the rail because the "pulsation dampener" is leaking around the center crimp. No way to fix those things. I always replace crush washers. I NEVER reuse them because I've had too many leak whenever I tried in my younger years (I'm now 65 so this is far from my first rodeo). I'm just going to need to force it apart and pray the inside threads on the flexible $140 line aren't what is buggered up. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some odd (or special) method for pulling the two lines apart. It simply looks like a male metal flare fitting (14mm) screwed into the flexible female hose fitting (19mm) leading to the banjo bolt. I can get/rent a double-flare tool (unfortunately my plumbing single-flare tool just won't hack it and wouldn't try). I'd hate to burn the girl to the ground after all the work we just spent replacing the starter, timing belt, water-pump along with cam & crank seals. It's been a LONG road. I've worked on lots of cars in my 65 years and these are beautiful cars but many items are a PIA to work on. (Previous significant repair on the car was replacing the Power Steering Pump which leaked down & wiped out the Alternator. Also a difficult job on the SC-400. It also took FOREVER to bleed all the air out.)
Yea,
I figured it would be a double-flare (like brake lines) since it is a fuel-line.
I already need to pull the banjo bolt apart on the rail because the "pulsation dampener" is leaking around the center crimp. No way to fix those things. I always replace crush washers. I NEVER reuse them because I've had too many leak whenever I tried in my younger years (I'm now 65 so this is far from my first rodeo). I'm just going to need to force it apart and pray the inside threads on the flexible $140 line aren't what is buggered up. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some odd (or special) method for pulling the two lines apart. It simply looks like a male metal flare fitting (14mm) screwed into the flexible female hose fitting (19mm) leading to the banjo bolt. I can get/rent a double-flare tool (unfortunately my plumbing single-flare tool just won't hack it and wouldn't try). I'd hate to burn the girl to the ground after all the work we just spent replacing the starter, timing belt, water-pump along with cam & crank seals. It's been a LONG road. I've worked on lots of cars in my 65 years and these are beautiful cars but many items are a PIA to work on. (Previous significant repair on the car was replacing the Power Steering Pump which leaked down & wiped out the Alternator. Also a difficult job on the SC-400. It also took FOREVER to bleed all the air out.)
05-08-17, 05:08 PM
#4
Glad to hear...
Loudon Man
Yea,
I figured it would be a double-flare (like brake lines) since it is a fuel-line.
I already need to pull the banjo bolt apart on the rail because the "pulsation dampener" is leaking around the center crimp. No way to fix those things. I always replace crush washers. I NEVER reuse them because I've had too many leak whenever I tried in my younger years (I'm now 65 so this is far from my first rodeo). I'm just going to need to force it apart and pray the inside threads on the flexible $140 line aren't what is buggered up. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some odd (or special) method for pulling the two lines apart. It simply looks like a male metal flare fitting (14mm) screwed into the flexible female hose fitting (19mm) leading to the banjo bolt. I can get/rent a double-flare tool (unfortunately my plumbing single-flare tool just won't hack it and wouldn't try). I'd hate to burn the girl to the ground after all the work we just spent replacing the starter, timing belt, water-pump along with cam & crank seals. It's been a LONG road. I've worked on lots of cars in my 65 years and these are beautiful cars but many items are a PIA to work on. (Previous significant repair on the car was replacing the Power Steering Pump which leaked down & wiped out the Alternator. Also a difficult job on the SC-400. It also took FOREVER to bleed all the air out.)
Yea,
I figured it would be a double-flare (like brake lines) since it is a fuel-line.
I already need to pull the banjo bolt apart on the rail because the "pulsation dampener" is leaking around the center crimp. No way to fix those things. I always replace crush washers. I NEVER reuse them because I've had too many leak whenever I tried in my younger years (I'm now 65 so this is far from my first rodeo). I'm just going to need to force it apart and pray the inside threads on the flexible $140 line aren't what is buggered up. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some odd (or special) method for pulling the two lines apart. It simply looks like a male metal flare fitting (14mm) screwed into the flexible female hose fitting (19mm) leading to the banjo bolt. I can get/rent a double-flare tool (unfortunately my plumbing single-flare tool just won't hack it and wouldn't try). I'd hate to burn the girl to the ground after all the work we just spent replacing the starter, timing belt, water-pump along with cam & crank seals. It's been a LONG road. I've worked on lots of cars in my 65 years and these are beautiful cars but many items are a PIA to work on. (Previous significant repair on the car was replacing the Power Steering Pump which leaked down & wiped out the Alternator. Also a difficult job on the SC-400. It also took FOREVER to bleed all the air out.)
05-12-17, 12:19 PM
#5
Rookie
Thread Starter
Sorry for the long post, but I've made progress and now have a different issue.
Finally got parts separated, but unfortunately, it required me to cut the steel supply line, After cutting apart, I then removed the flex line up to the banjo bolt and used a bench vise and pipe wrench (ugh) to remove the 14mm nut and scrap stub (about 1/2") of 8mm steel tubing. Amazingly, the threads on the EXPENSIVE portion (the flex line up to the banjo bolt) appear perfectly straight and clean but I now need to replace a short length (6" or so) of the 8mm steel supply tubing which I had to cut. I have an 8mm fuel-rated compression union (actually it is in the mail) to repair the cut ends but I cannot find a steel metric tubing nut or 8mm (OD) steel fuel tubing anywhere locally. I believe the needed nut is "14mm x 1.5 inverted double-flare tube nut for 8mm (OD) tubing". I would only need about 6"-8" of tubing plus the flare-nut. Also, I'm finding a couple of different nut styles on internet. When I GOOGLE search for the nut, I'm finding two styles. I suspect the one I wrenched off is NOT the correct nut and that the previous owner hacked it together (it might even be SAE 5/16"). Therefore, I can't compare what I have to what I need.. Some of the nuts I'm finding on Internet have a flat-end (threads go all the way to end of the fitting) and some of the nuts have a short un-threaded straight "collar" at the end (threads stop about a 16" from the end). I suspect some of them "may" be designed for brake lines and others are not. Can anyone assist in identifying the correct style of flare nut for the 8mm tubing and can anyone point out a source to purchase both the nut and a foot or so of 8mm steel fuel-line tubing? I can double-flare the tubing myself if I have the parts. (OK, I know I can replace the entire steel supply line down to the first joint but that is a lot of cost and effort compared to simply repairing the end.)
Finally got parts separated, but unfortunately, it required me to cut the steel supply line, After cutting apart, I then removed the flex line up to the banjo bolt and used a bench vise and pipe wrench (ugh) to remove the 14mm nut and scrap stub (about 1/2") of 8mm steel tubing. Amazingly, the threads on the EXPENSIVE portion (the flex line up to the banjo bolt) appear perfectly straight and clean but I now need to replace a short length (6" or so) of the 8mm steel supply tubing which I had to cut. I have an 8mm fuel-rated compression union (actually it is in the mail) to repair the cut ends but I cannot find a steel metric tubing nut or 8mm (OD) steel fuel tubing anywhere locally. I believe the needed nut is "14mm x 1.5 inverted double-flare tube nut for 8mm (OD) tubing". I would only need about 6"-8" of tubing plus the flare-nut. Also, I'm finding a couple of different nut styles on internet. When I GOOGLE search for the nut, I'm finding two styles. I suspect the one I wrenched off is NOT the correct nut and that the previous owner hacked it together (it might even be SAE 5/16"). Therefore, I can't compare what I have to what I need.. Some of the nuts I'm finding on Internet have a flat-end (threads go all the way to end of the fitting) and some of the nuts have a short un-threaded straight "collar" at the end (threads stop about a 16" from the end). I suspect some of them "may" be designed for brake lines and others are not. Can anyone assist in identifying the correct style of flare nut for the 8mm tubing and can anyone point out a source to purchase both the nut and a foot or so of 8mm steel fuel-line tubing? I can double-flare the tubing myself if I have the parts. (OK, I know I can replace the entire steel supply line down to the first joint but that is a lot of cost and effort compared to simply repairing the end.)
05-16-17, 06:12 PM
#6
Intermediate
take a few photos of what you're trying to do and I'll take a look at mine. I've just had those connections apart recently and there's a 1UZ in a local yard that may be able to donate to you.
05-22-17, 08:51 AM
#7
Rookie
Thread Starter
Thanks,
I eventually figured out a solution without needing any new 8mm steel fuel line. The location is easy to get access to, so I ordered one of the two fitting styles from an internet supplier (the one that is threaded to the end). If it leaked badly, I could cut it off and re-order the other style fitting. After installing the double-flare fitting, I gently made a 90 degree bend in the steel line so it could now easily reach the end of the flexible line that extends up to the fuel rail. After tightening it all together, it sealed tight. After several hundred miles and several days, everything is still dry with no fuel leaks..
I eventually figured out a solution without needing any new 8mm steel fuel line. The location is easy to get access to, so I ordered one of the two fitting styles from an internet supplier (the one that is threaded to the end). If it leaked badly, I could cut it off and re-order the other style fitting. After installing the double-flare fitting, I gently made a 90 degree bend in the steel line so it could now easily reach the end of the flexible line that extends up to the fuel rail. After tightening it all together, it sealed tight. After several hundred miles and several days, everything is still dry with no fuel leaks..
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05-22-17, 01:11 PM
#8
Intermediate
for an in place flaring tool, the Mastercool universal set is really the bomb. for a bench style flaring tool, the Eastwood 25304 is really nice. For tube benders the Ridgid 600 series roller benders are top of the heap.
All of the above tools work well with 304/316 stainless lines which is usually a b**tch to bend and flare.
If I were replacing lines now however I'd be using Cunifer, which is a soft stainless with a copper/nickel blend that is hand bendable and easy to flare with cheap tools. I did a fuel line recently and still used benders for neat/crisp bends but hand bending is easy if you don't have tools.
All of the above tools work well with 304/316 stainless lines which is usually a b**tch to bend and flare.
If I were replacing lines now however I'd be using Cunifer, which is a soft stainless with a copper/nickel blend that is hand bendable and easy to flare with cheap tools. I did a fuel line recently and still used benders for neat/crisp bends but hand bending is easy if you don't have tools.
01-20-23, 09:48 AM
#9
I've had the same problem on two different LS430
1993 SC400 1YZFE ATM 4FC UZZ30L
On the driver's side (left) there is a flexible fuel line (P/N 90923-01388) that runs between the banjo-bolt (union) mounted below the "pulsation dampener" screwed into the fuel rail and the steel fuel line near the inner-fender. This might sound dumb, but has anyone separated the flare fitting on the metal fuel line from the flexible line? If so, how? I was able to crack the fitting loose, but about 1-2 turns out it binds VERY tight and will not go further. By tight, I mean it stops rotating and I am actually flexing the jaws on my 14mm flare-nut wrench enough that I need to remove it with a hammer. I can't figure out why it is like this unless the previous owner cross-threaded it at some point and then forced the mess together. If I do try and force it further, I'm afraid I will round off the corners on the 14mm flare fitting on the hard line. I can't imagine that this is anything but standard threaded fittings and that simple hand-tools "should" pull it apart. A replacement flexible fuel line is about $140 so I don't want to tear it apart getting them separated. I need to separate them because the connection is leaking and it will NOT stop by simply tightening it further. We have the same issue when we tighten it.. Thanks in advance if anyone can offer help.
On the driver's side (left) there is a flexible fuel line (P/N 90923-01388) that runs between the banjo-bolt (union) mounted below the "pulsation dampener" screwed into the fuel rail and the steel fuel line near the inner-fender. This might sound dumb, but has anyone separated the flare fitting on the metal fuel line from the flexible line? If so, how? I was able to crack the fitting loose, but about 1-2 turns out it binds VERY tight and will not go further. By tight, I mean it stops rotating and I am actually flexing the jaws on my 14mm flare-nut wrench enough that I need to remove it with a hammer. I can't figure out why it is like this unless the previous owner cross-threaded it at some point and then forced the mess together. If I do try and force it further, I'm afraid I will round off the corners on the 14mm flare fitting on the hard line. I can't imagine that this is anything but standard threaded fittings and that simple hand-tools "should" pull it apart. A replacement flexible fuel line is about $140 so I don't want to tear it apart getting them separated. I need to separate them because the connection is leaking and it will NOT stop by simply tightening it further. We have the same issue when we tighten it.. Thanks in advance if anyone can offer help.
11-29-23, 01:49 PM
#11
Intermediate
I'm gonna go from memory that the 14 is on the hardline side. If yes the only solution would be to cut it off, get a replacement threaded fitting and reflare. This assumes there's enough play to rejoin the lines with the cut section subtracted.
I think there's also a union at the catalytic if you need to change an entire section. Go look at my thread on replacing fuel/brake lines. I covered the lines pretty thoroughly.
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