NA-T project update
11-18-03, 09:42 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
You go boy! It would almost be worth it for me to stay in OK so you can help me turbo SC#2 this time next year, but moving from here is more important. Now I just need a turbo sc300 guy up in Oregon. Wanna log some miles on the beast Scott
?
?
11-19-03, 08:52 PM
#19
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: California
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Re: NA-T project update
Originally posted by motorheaddown
Sup ClubLex?!
It's been a while since I've been on the forum, and I wanted to post an update to a project that's gotten a little out of control (but that's actually good).
In '02, I purchased a '95 sc300 5-speed with 43k miles from a retired couple in Maryland. I was going to work with PHR on a project, but that fell through (long, unpleasant story). The good news for me was that it was an opportunity to really learn something about piecing together a turbo conversion myself. If you're considering embarking on an NA-T yourself, be prepared for delays, cost overruns, and multiple approaches to solving problems along the way. I now understand why tuners often run into the same issues on project cars. DIY turbo conversions are *not* for the mechanically challenged.
I initially was just going to convert the power plant, but I was encouraged to do it right the first time by local turners and individuals on the forum. Here's the current list of mods on the car:
Toyomoto manifold/dp/wg pipes/midpipe/oil-feed lines/6-speed DS mod
Sound Performance sp63 turbo A/R .71, 4" compressor inlet
Turbonetics Racegate
Siemans 720cc/min injectors
2mm hg
3-angle valve job on the head
PLX Devices M-200 W/B
AEM ems/egt sensor
Custom fuel system (dual walbros feeding an in-tank Y block to a 8AN bulkhead fitting; 8AN line leads to Y block in the engine bay that splits to dual 6AN lines feeding a dual-feed, center return GE fuel rail; second pump comes on a 1-bar of boost)
Aeromotive FPR
GM 3-bar MAP/AIT sensors/boost control solenoid
LS1 coils running wasted spark (distributor is used for crank/cam position *only*)
FMax IC pipes
JDM FMIC (900+ cfm)
TT 6-speed tranny/clutch disk/LSD/sway bars
RaceLogic traction control
Dereks Devices meth injection kit
Kevin *****'s digital dash (no guages!)
RPS Max pressure plate
The car is currently running NA. Unfortunately, I hacked up one of the FMax IC pipes, and I'm waiting on a replacement. However, all the difficult work is complete. I have the AEM running on 720s, and the fuel system and ignition system have been completely replaced. I now run the custom fuel system listed above and LS1 coils to fire the plugs. So far, everything's working great.
The fuel system was designed to prevent unnecessary heating of the fuel due to dual pumps running all the time. Therefore, I put a Y-block and dual Walbros in the tank. One pump is on all the time. The second pump comes on a 1-bar of boost. The fuel system took 3 iterations to get correct, and the key was modifying the GE fuel rail to be dual-feed center return. I was able to install a 45 degree 1/4" npt to 6AN fitting between injectors 3 and 4. It isn't easy, but it's doable.
To get *around* the problem of the distributor getting in the way of the compressor inlet (pardon the pun), I planned on either using the TT ignition system or something else. Fortunately, "something else" came along in the form of DereksDevises LS1 coils for the TT. Unfortunately, the AEM *only* runs wasted spark for the Supra, but the TT igniter was designed for direct-fire. Consequently, the igniter couldn't handle the short dwell time of wasted spark. Derek Obanion (a.k.a AnArKey) devised a coil-on-plug solution for the TT that *completely* eliminates the TT ignition system solving the problem with wasted spark driving the TT ignition system.
Based on my research of the TT motor and electronics, I determined that it would be possible to use Derek's LS1 coil solution on the NA motor. However, I'd still need the distributor for crank/cam position. Keeping the distributor *just* for the position sensors would provide plenty of clearance for *any* size compressor housing. Unfortunately, I had to completely wire up the ignition system from scratch (as well as the injectors which is another long story). After trouble-shooting some self-induced ignition problems, I successfully got the NA motor running on the AEM and LS1 coils. WooHoo! Now the only thing preventing me from running *any* sized turbo is oil cooling of the pistons.
While I'm on the topic of oil cooled pistons, I needed a way to keep the cylinder temps down under high boost. One way to combat the problem is to install TT piston oil squiters in the NA block. While it's possible, it's not very practicle. Even if I installed piston cooling, it would still be necessary to run race gas under high boost (> 22lbs). Once again, Derek comes to the rescue with an inexpensive solution. I'm going to install a methanol/water injection kit to chill the compressed air flow exiting the IC. Meth/H2O injection will drop the intake air charge to the intake plenum at or below ambient. Using meth injection, I'll be able to run high boost on pump gas, and a meth/H2O mix is very inexpensive to make.
Plans for the driveline have also changed. My initial choice of a RPS pressure plate and stock TT disk is o.k., but I need something with a little more clamping friction. I'm going to try out the SBC kevlar disk and pp. The flywheel side of the disk is OEM, the pp side is kevlar. The pressure plate surface is also kevlar. I'll let you know how it works out. I'm trying to stay away from a multi-disk clutch just for cost and drivability reasons.
About headgaskets, I did take the time to measure the change in head clearance before and after installing the thicker hg. The stock clearance is about 0.056". After installing the hg (which was actually 2.7mm umcompressed), the final squish clearance is about 0.146". The resulting increase in clearance volume changed the compression ratio from 10:1 to 8.4:1. Perfect for a turbo-charged motor. Next time, however, I probably would just go with a TT hg especially in combination with meth injection. In fact, it should be possible to run stock compression at high boost with chilled intake air using Derek's injection system.
The other thing I want to mention is the AEM. In two short words... IT ROCKS! I would never suggest to anyone that they go with piggy-back solutions to engine control. In the end, the AEM will do more for less money. The only thing is doesn't have is good traction control. That's why I picked up the RaceLogic system. The base maps that AEM provides are *very* good starting points. And if you RTFM, I'm convinced that it's possible for a non-tuner to dial in a car. However, the AEM is *very* complex. Don't expect to PnP as they advertise. It ain't gonna happen! You must do your homework to effectively use this device.
As a bonus to using the AEM, you can save a ton of money on analog guages. Kevin ***** has designed a digital dash that emulates a pc connection to the AEM. It *completely* eliminates the need for analog guages that could cost well over $700. The dash is an LCD display, controller, and button interface that let's you pick what you want to display. Additionally, you can put warning indications for over/under conditions. It also has a "peak" feature, and he even has allocations for hp and torque calculations.
Oh... one short thought about FMax IC pipes. For the cost and quality, they're actually *very* good. In fact, they're about half the price of custom front mount IC pipes. Unfortunately, I had some self-induced installation problems that are preventing me from boosting the car. Additionally, with a slight mod to the compressor outlet IC pipe, I was able to install all the pipes through the fenders. You'll have to move two power steering lines and bend some AC lines out of the way. However, I have all the pipes (except the one I'm missing) installed with all the under carrage plastic installed.
Well... that's about it for now. Sorry for the long post, but a lot has happened to the car over the last couple of months. Once I get a replacement IC pipe from FMax, I'll be boosting. I also have to replace some of the driveline components (DS, clutch, pp, LSD). I also haven't tried out the RaceLogic system, but once it's installed (I still have some wiring to do), I'll post my findings as to its traction control capabilities.
-scott
Sup ClubLex?!
It's been a while since I've been on the forum, and I wanted to post an update to a project that's gotten a little out of control (but that's actually good).
In '02, I purchased a '95 sc300 5-speed with 43k miles from a retired couple in Maryland. I was going to work with PHR on a project, but that fell through (long, unpleasant story). The good news for me was that it was an opportunity to really learn something about piecing together a turbo conversion myself. If you're considering embarking on an NA-T yourself, be prepared for delays, cost overruns, and multiple approaches to solving problems along the way. I now understand why tuners often run into the same issues on project cars. DIY turbo conversions are *not* for the mechanically challenged.
I initially was just going to convert the power plant, but I was encouraged to do it right the first time by local turners and individuals on the forum. Here's the current list of mods on the car:
Toyomoto manifold/dp/wg pipes/midpipe/oil-feed lines/6-speed DS mod
Sound Performance sp63 turbo A/R .71, 4" compressor inlet
Turbonetics Racegate
Siemans 720cc/min injectors
2mm hg
3-angle valve job on the head
PLX Devices M-200 W/B
AEM ems/egt sensor
Custom fuel system (dual walbros feeding an in-tank Y block to a 8AN bulkhead fitting; 8AN line leads to Y block in the engine bay that splits to dual 6AN lines feeding a dual-feed, center return GE fuel rail; second pump comes on a 1-bar of boost)
Aeromotive FPR
GM 3-bar MAP/AIT sensors/boost control solenoid
LS1 coils running wasted spark (distributor is used for crank/cam position *only*)
FMax IC pipes
JDM FMIC (900+ cfm)
TT 6-speed tranny/clutch disk/LSD/sway bars
RaceLogic traction control
Dereks Devices meth injection kit
Kevin *****'s digital dash (no guages!)
RPS Max pressure plate
The car is currently running NA. Unfortunately, I hacked up one of the FMax IC pipes, and I'm waiting on a replacement. However, all the difficult work is complete. I have the AEM running on 720s, and the fuel system and ignition system have been completely replaced. I now run the custom fuel system listed above and LS1 coils to fire the plugs. So far, everything's working great.
The fuel system was designed to prevent unnecessary heating of the fuel due to dual pumps running all the time. Therefore, I put a Y-block and dual Walbros in the tank. One pump is on all the time. The second pump comes on a 1-bar of boost. The fuel system took 3 iterations to get correct, and the key was modifying the GE fuel rail to be dual-feed center return. I was able to install a 45 degree 1/4" npt to 6AN fitting between injectors 3 and 4. It isn't easy, but it's doable.
To get *around* the problem of the distributor getting in the way of the compressor inlet (pardon the pun), I planned on either using the TT ignition system or something else. Fortunately, "something else" came along in the form of DereksDevises LS1 coils for the TT. Unfortunately, the AEM *only* runs wasted spark for the Supra, but the TT igniter was designed for direct-fire. Consequently, the igniter couldn't handle the short dwell time of wasted spark. Derek Obanion (a.k.a AnArKey) devised a coil-on-plug solution for the TT that *completely* eliminates the TT ignition system solving the problem with wasted spark driving the TT ignition system.
Based on my research of the TT motor and electronics, I determined that it would be possible to use Derek's LS1 coil solution on the NA motor. However, I'd still need the distributor for crank/cam position. Keeping the distributor *just* for the position sensors would provide plenty of clearance for *any* size compressor housing. Unfortunately, I had to completely wire up the ignition system from scratch (as well as the injectors which is another long story). After trouble-shooting some self-induced ignition problems, I successfully got the NA motor running on the AEM and LS1 coils. WooHoo! Now the only thing preventing me from running *any* sized turbo is oil cooling of the pistons.
While I'm on the topic of oil cooled pistons, I needed a way to keep the cylinder temps down under high boost. One way to combat the problem is to install TT piston oil squiters in the NA block. While it's possible, it's not very practicle. Even if I installed piston cooling, it would still be necessary to run race gas under high boost (> 22lbs). Once again, Derek comes to the rescue with an inexpensive solution. I'm going to install a methanol/water injection kit to chill the compressed air flow exiting the IC. Meth/H2O injection will drop the intake air charge to the intake plenum at or below ambient. Using meth injection, I'll be able to run high boost on pump gas, and a meth/H2O mix is very inexpensive to make.
Plans for the driveline have also changed. My initial choice of a RPS pressure plate and stock TT disk is o.k., but I need something with a little more clamping friction. I'm going to try out the SBC kevlar disk and pp. The flywheel side of the disk is OEM, the pp side is kevlar. The pressure plate surface is also kevlar. I'll let you know how it works out. I'm trying to stay away from a multi-disk clutch just for cost and drivability reasons.
About headgaskets, I did take the time to measure the change in head clearance before and after installing the thicker hg. The stock clearance is about 0.056". After installing the hg (which was actually 2.7mm umcompressed), the final squish clearance is about 0.146". The resulting increase in clearance volume changed the compression ratio from 10:1 to 8.4:1. Perfect for a turbo-charged motor. Next time, however, I probably would just go with a TT hg especially in combination with meth injection. In fact, it should be possible to run stock compression at high boost with chilled intake air using Derek's injection system.
The other thing I want to mention is the AEM. In two short words... IT ROCKS! I would never suggest to anyone that they go with piggy-back solutions to engine control. In the end, the AEM will do more for less money. The only thing is doesn't have is good traction control. That's why I picked up the RaceLogic system. The base maps that AEM provides are *very* good starting points. And if you RTFM, I'm convinced that it's possible for a non-tuner to dial in a car. However, the AEM is *very* complex. Don't expect to PnP as they advertise. It ain't gonna happen! You must do your homework to effectively use this device.
As a bonus to using the AEM, you can save a ton of money on analog guages. Kevin ***** has designed a digital dash that emulates a pc connection to the AEM. It *completely* eliminates the need for analog guages that could cost well over $700. The dash is an LCD display, controller, and button interface that let's you pick what you want to display. Additionally, you can put warning indications for over/under conditions. It also has a "peak" feature, and he even has allocations for hp and torque calculations.
Oh... one short thought about FMax IC pipes. For the cost and quality, they're actually *very* good. In fact, they're about half the price of custom front mount IC pipes. Unfortunately, I had some self-induced installation problems that are preventing me from boosting the car. Additionally, with a slight mod to the compressor outlet IC pipe, I was able to install all the pipes through the fenders. You'll have to move two power steering lines and bend some AC lines out of the way. However, I have all the pipes (except the one I'm missing) installed with all the under carrage plastic installed.
Well... that's about it for now. Sorry for the long post, but a lot has happened to the car over the last couple of months. Once I get a replacement IC pipe from FMax, I'll be boosting. I also have to replace some of the driveline components (DS, clutch, pp, LSD). I also haven't tried out the RaceLogic system, but once it's installed (I still have some wiring to do), I'll post my findings as to its traction control capabilities.
-scott
11-23-03, 09:10 AM
#21
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
singyau78: I don't quite understand your question or how a 3-bar MAP sensor fixes your situation. I can help with the installation of a 3-bar MAP, but I don't know enough about piggy-back setups to offer help. There are others on the forum that are more knowledgeable than me on that.
ken: The goal is 600hp, but I still have some phantom problems that need working out. I went to the track yesterday, and it was a disappointment. The car works fine just after getting to temperature, but if it's at temperature for a length of time (i.e. like *driving* to the track), then it just falls on its face. I'm thinking that coils 3 and 4 are suffering from heat soak being buried under the throttle body.
-scott
ken: The goal is 600hp, but I still have some phantom problems that need working out. I went to the track yesterday, and it was a disappointment. The car works fine just after getting to temperature, but if it's at temperature for a length of time (i.e. like *driving* to the track), then it just falls on its face. I'm thinking that coils 3 and 4 are suffering from heat soak being buried under the throttle body.
-scott
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