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Hi, I have a Toyota Soarer, which is basically a Lexus SC, but it's a 5 speed manual and has the 1jzgte. It's got the r154 transmission and I just pulled it to do a clutch. I've never worked with a pull type pressure plate before and from what I've read I have a loosen some bolts to make the engine tilt back just a hair so that I can slide the transmission back in without it hitting the body. I cannot figure out which bolts to loosen to get the motor to drop, any help would be greatly appreciated. I loosened the engine mount bolts hoping the engine would lean back a little bit but no luck
This is actually a fairly common setup in modified US-market SC's with NA-T 2JZ's and 1JZGTE engine swaps with the same R154 5-speed manual transmissions swapped in.
First, just to be sure, you are already aware that the pull-type pressure plates in R154's (and all Aisin R-series truck transmissions and also in V160 and V161 Getrags) require you to loosen the pressure plate and remove those bolts through the two inspection covers on each side of the bellhousing, correct? The engine requires a little clockwise rotation to advance through all the bolts holding the pressure plate to get all of them out. This is done using a big breaker bar on the crank damper/pulley. Clockwise rotation *only*.
Without doing that step prior to removal the transmission will not be able to slide off from the engine. It helps to use a Harbor Freight transmission jack also.
I haven't been familiar with any tilting of the engine being required to do an R154 clutch job in our cars. You could do this by loosening the two front crossmember bolts holding the engine mounts in and then have a 2-ton engine crane with a load leveler with hooks connected to the two 1JZ cylinder head hooks to lift the engine slightly at a tilt... but... none of that is needed for an R154 clutch job in the SC/Soarer chassis.
This is the guide that I have used for the majority of the TSRM procedure for an R154 clutch job in an SC (or Soarer):
Be sure to focus on the parts of this TSRM that are specific to the R154, identified in this MKIII Supra factory manual as "7MGTE" or "Turbo" or "R154".
Everything in there is the same hardware that you have in your car with the exception of a shifter extension housing (91-93/94 Soarers), the 1JZ-specific flywheel and the tail shaft mount and trans crossmember (your rubber transmission mount for a Z30 Soarer manual is the same exact part used on a 92-97 SC300 W58 5-speed or MKIV Supra W58). Also, your front driveshaft is unique to the Z30 Soarer R154 5-speed model but is extremely similar in construction to an SC300's driveshaft system including the center bearing... so for your driveshaft removal/installation you would basically follow the TSRM procedure for an SC300's driveshaft.
Hope this helps!
Edit: thinking on your post some more... I think the trick is having enough clearance under the car from your jackstands (please use four of them for safety!) and having good fine control with the use of a transmission jack. The Harbor Freight jack that I have used is a slow pain to adjust but it still helps tremendously. There are other brands/designs out there too but compact versions are all pretty similar.
The best case scenario of course is having the Soarer on a hydraulic lift while using a much taller pedestal style trans jack. Very recently I had my R154's clutch replaced and this was how my mechanic did it very quickly... like a 2 hour job for him max with that equipment. In a driveway or home garage it just takes much longer using jack stands and a simpler/cheaper low profile transmission jack.
It was even a challenge for me, before I got my engine installed into m SC, to get the R154 (mounted on my HF low profile trans jack) aimed just right to stab into the pilot bearing with my 2JZ engine resting on a tire outside of the car while my engine crane's load leveler kept the block held in place from any wobbling.
I had never worked on this type of transmission before at the time either so I will say that I do think there is a slight learning curve for newcomers to know how to get it in just right while under the car.
This all having been said my own experience is still pretty limited but others here who have done R154 clutch jobs on their SC's (or Soarers) may have some better insight or trick to making reinstallation smoother.
Oh, and also, I assume almost everyone knows this but just in case since this is a new transmission to you... make sure to double check that your disc orientation is correct. The thicker side faces the transmission's internals while the flattest side faces the flywheel. Very easy mistake to make or perhaps not but it seems a good thing to mention just in case.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 03-28-19 at 08:54 PM.
Reason: Modified after a note from Ali SC3
This is actually a fairly common setup in modified US-market SC's with NA-T 2JZ's and 1JZGTE engine swaps with the same R154 5-speed manual transmissions swapped in.
First, just to be sure, you are already aware that the pull-type pressure plates in R154's (and all Aisin R-series truck transmissions and also in V160 and V161 Getrags) require you to loosen the pressure plate and remove those bolts through the two inspection covers on each side of the bellhousing, correct? The engine requires a little clockwise rotation to advance through all the bolts holding the pressure plate to get all of them out. This is done using a big breaker bar on the crank damper/pulley. Clockwise rotation *only*.
Without doing that step prior to removal the transmission will not be able to slide off from the engine. It helps to use a Harbor Freight transmission jack also.
I haven't been familiar with any tilting of the engine being required to do an R154 clutch job in our cars. You could do this by loosening the two front crossmember bolts holding the engine mounts in and then have a 2-ton engine crane with a load leveler with hooks connected to the two 1JZ cylinder head hooks to lift the engine slightly at a tilt... but... none of that is needed for an R154 clutch job in the SC/Soarer chassis.
This is the guide that I have used for the majority of the TSRM procedure for an R154 clutch job in an SC (or Soarer):
Be sure to focus on the parts of this TSRM that are specific to the R154, identified in this MKIII Supra factory manual as "7MGTE" or "Turbo" or "R154".
Everything in there is the same hardware that you have in your car with the exception of a shifter extension housing (91-93/94 Soarers), the 1JZ-specific flywheel and the tail shaft mount and trans crossmember (your rubber transmission mount for a Z30 Soarer manual is the same exact part used on a 92-97 SC300 W58 5-speed or MKIV Supra W58). Also, your front driveshaft is unique to the Z30 Soarer R154 5-speed model but is extremely similar in construction to an SC300's driveshaft system including the center bearing... so for your driveshaft removal/installation you would basically follow the TSRM procedure for an SC300's driveshaft.
Hope this helps!
Edit: thinking on your post some more... I think the trick is having enough clearance under the car from your jackstands (please use four of them for safety!) and having good fine control with the use of a transmission jack. The Harbor Freight jack that I have used is a slow pain to adjust but it still helps tremendously. There are other brands/designs out there too but compact versions are all pretty similar.
The best case scenario of course is having the Soarer on a hydraulic lift while using a much taller pedestal style trans jack. Very recently I had my R154's clutch replaced and this was how my mechanic did it very quickly... like a 2 hour job for him max with that equipment. In a driveway or home garage it just takes much longer using jack stands and a simpler/cheaper low profile transmission jack.
It was even a challenge for me, before I got my engine installed into m SC, to get the R154 (mounted on my HF low profile trans jack) aimed just right to stab into the pilot bearing with my 2JZ engine resting on a tire outside of the car while my engine crane's load leveler kept the block held in place from any wobbling.
I had never worked on this type of transmission before at the time either so I will say that I do think there is a slight learning curve for newcomers to know how to get it in just right while under the car.
This all having been said my own experience is still pretty limited but others here who have done R154 clutch jobs on their SC's (or Soarers) may have some better insight or trick to making reinstallation smoother.
Oh, and also, I assume almost everyone knows this but just in case since this is a new transmission to you... make sure to double check that your disc orientation is correct. The thicker side faces the transmission's internals while the flattest side faces the flywheel. Very easy mistake to make or perhaps not but it seems a good thing to mention just in case.
Thank you very much for the extremely detailed response. I do in fact have the soarer up on four jack stands and I do already have the transmission out. I did have to remove the pressure plate through the access holes on the bell housing. I am just having trouble reinstalling the transmission because everything I've watched shows you bolting the pressure plate to the flywheel before sliding in the transmission. It seems there is no way to slide in the transmission with the pressure plate already installed to the flywheel. That's why I wanted to tilt the engine back so the transmission wouldn't hit the body and it could slide in. If I didn't tilt the engine, would I have to push the transmission input shaft into the pilot bearing with the clutch and pressure plate sitting on the splines and then torque down the pressure plate through the acces ports on the bellhousing?
Thank you very much for the extremely detailed response. I do in fact have the soarer up on four jack stands and I do already have the transmission out. I did have to remove the pressure plate through the access holes on the bell housing. I am just having trouble reinstalling the transmission because everything I've watched shows you bolting the pressure plate to the flywheel before sliding in the transmission. It seems there is no way to slide in the transmission with the pressure plate already installed to the flywheel. That's why I wanted to tilt the engine back so the transmission wouldn't hit the body and it could slide in. If I didn't tilt the engine, would I have to push the transmission input shaft into the pilot bearing with the clutch and pressure plate sitting on the splines and then torque down the pressure plate through the acces ports on the bellhousing?
Hmm... well clearances under the car aside depending on how high you have it jacked up it should still be basically the same to mount the R154 on any jack and crank it up into position so as to stab into the pilot bearing and then push the bellhousing onto the rear of the engine block. Alignment of the transmission's bellhousing clock angle should be the only fine tuning part at that point.
However, your description of how you're trying to get the transmission on stood out to me.
With an R154 (or V160 for those reading) you must first slide the pressure plate onto the transmission spline within the bell housing, then slide on the clutch disc (and again, general rule of thumb always double check that it is oriented correctly before proceeding), and THEN you can begin to put the R154's input shaft toward the flywheel's pilot bearing and then get the block and bellhousing located.
Then you start getting the bellhousing bolts started and finally you can push the pressure plate into place onto the flywheel's locating dowels and begin installing the flywheel bolts.
How you were describing it by attempting to install the pressure plate with disc underneath onto the flywheel first and then attempting to push on the R154 and get it bolted in.... that will not work because it is not designed to assemble that way. The order in which you removed the R154 is, in reverse, how it must go back together and onto the engine.
In constrast a W58 5-speed is designed so that the clutch disc and pressure plate go onto the flywheel first and they use one of those plastic spline centering dummy guides to keep your disc centered. Once those are bolted down you then install the W58 onto the JZ block.
But with an R154 you must align the clutch pressure plate and disc inside the trans bellhousing first, then push the transmission onto the block (and get at least some of the bellhousing bolts secured to keep it in place before proceeding-- they all have to go on eventually of course) and then you get the pressure plate bolted down from there. It's just how Toyota and Aisin designed it.
Also it doesn't hurt to use a little bit of red loctite on the pressure plate bolts (and always use new PP bolts-- never reuse them). OEM PP bolts are fine for most cases but if you have a particularly aggressive clutch kit there are also stronger ARP R154 pressure plate bolts available from Driftmotion.
Love the detailed responses from Kahn, always a good read
I was actually not aware the installation/removal procedure was different for the R154 but it makes sense why that inspection cover is so large now.
Its funny that it has to be done that way, my pull type lt-1 t56 I was able to bolt on in the regular order.. but I figure the mechanisms are different.
Just a note though most of the R-series truck transmissions are push setups like the w58.
Basically the R154 is the odd one out with a pull type setup. when you swap the r154 bellhousing on another R series it converts it to pull also.
He saves the day again! lol i was going to reply and his was just so much better lol
Originally Posted by RudysSC
Kahn is at it again!!
Originally Posted by Ali SC3
Love the detailed responses from Kahn, always a good read
Well now I'm all embarrassed, lol Honestly you guys all have more experience than I do but I'm happy if the info helps and I hope that the installation order confusion really is at the heart of Curtis' issue.
Originally Posted by Ali SC3
I was actually not aware the installation/removal procedure was different for the R154 but it makes sense why that inspection cover is so large now.
Its funny that it has to be done that way, my pull type lt-1 t56 I was able to bolt on in the regular order.. but I figure the mechanisms are different.
Yes, those side inspection covers give you enough room to deal with both the pressure plate bolts and the inspection/servicing/removal of the fork, fork spring, the crucial little locking clip that holds the shift fork dowel in and also any troubleshooting of the slave cylinder with the transmission bolted on. I can't imagine if they had been designed smaller.
The only thing that sucks is the factory paint finish on the inspection plates. They really should be removed on a non-driving day and blasted and treated to a proper primer and dull paint finish to protect them from rust formation.
Your early T-56 being a puller has to have something different going on inside there. I don't know enough about the differences in these mechanisms to say why Toyota and Aisin specifically made the R154 and V160 clutch/trans removal and installation work this way while other pull type clutch designs align and install much like pusher clutch designs.
And those puller-to-pusher movement modifiers that Exedy and OS Giken use for their twin and triple disc clutches for the R154 and V160 also currently confuse me as to why it's even necessary. Maybe for internal clearance with a thicker clutch setup with the extra discs?
Sorry Curtis, getting a bit off topic in your troubleshooting post
Originally Posted by Ali SC3
Just a note though most of the R-series truck transmissions are push setups like the w58.
Basically the R154 is the odd one out with a pull type setup. when you swap the r154 bellhousing on another R series it converts it to pull also.
Now that I did not know! Thanks Ali! I've amended my above post to reflect this. I thought all the R-series transmissions worked the same way So interesting that Toyota only used the pull type system on the R154 and V160. There must have been some advantage to this in a high performance application.
Yeah, I think it has to do something with the shift forks, on the early t56 you install the throw out bearing to the pressure plate, and once the trans is installed you can just slide the shift fork onto the throw out bearing, its mount allows it to slide back and forth.
I'm guessing the toyota one is attached differently which makes the removal order necessary.
When I was researching pull vs push, my understanding is that pull type clutches have a slight mechanical advantage over push type clutches in terms of holding power.
They also generally have more clearance to the engine as the the slave cylinder is usually facing straight back instead of towards the engine bay. I think this is the reason they went pull on the early t56.
The pull to push conversion is generally for the multi disc clutches, you could convert to push also with a single clutch disc but you don't see it that much.
I was actually trying to figure out which way to go on my setup, because I could use a r154 bellhousing and all the pull components... or they make a R series adapter to an auto bellhousing for the 1uz swaps etc..
So I was thinking one could maybe use that adapter with an auto 2j bellhousing and run a push type clutch with a hydraulic/LS style throw out bearing.
I was just unsure of which one will actually hold more power when its said and done, I am not sure anyone has done a direct comparison.
03-26-19 | 04:56 PM
How to tilt engine back? (R154 into SC/Soarer)
Honestly you guys all have more experience than I do but I'm happy if the info helps and I hope that the installation order confusion really is at the heart of Curtis' issue.
So interesting that Toyota only used the pull type system on the R154 and V160. There must have been some advantage to this in a high performance application.
