Alcohol in gas
04-20-19, 08:00 AM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Alcohol in gas
Hello all, I am the new owner of a 1993 SC300 manual. I am wondering about alcohol in the gasoline for the car. I'm not worried about octane, quality, etc. What concerns me is the alcohol's effect on rubber parts in the fuel system of older cars. Some motors, especially small utility ones, don't do well with alcohol gas at all. I have a Chevron station not too far away that sells 90 octane no-alcohol gas. Does anyone out there have any information on the effects of alcohol on the fuel systems of 1990's Lexus cars?
Fred
Fred
04-20-19, 12:49 PM
#2
I haven't seen ethanol adversely affect our rubber lines specifically.
However, many have had fuel hard lines rust through (myself included) due to the black coating on the surface breaking apart and allowing rust to eat from outside in.
My rear brake line failed on me in a parking lot in a similar fashion as well.
However, many have had fuel hard lines rust through (myself included) due to the black coating on the surface breaking apart and allowing rust to eat from outside in.
My rear brake line failed on me in a parking lot in a similar fashion as well.
04-20-19, 03:07 PM
#3
Congratulations on your new to you SC manual!
I've been running 10% Ethanol 91-93 octane premium in my car since 2010 and have had no adverse effects. I believe in my 1993 owner's manual it does state that the factory SC300 (and SC400 by extension) fuel system was designed to take up to 10% ethanol concentrations in fuel.
Now given the age of our cars it is possible that some SC's may have old rubber fuel lines anyway but they tend to hold up for decades.
^^ Also to Intimazy's point that some SC's have rusting fuel hard lines that may need to be replaced anyway.
It is E15-E20 fuel that I am concerned about myself on the *stock* fuel systems of many older cars but apart from a few places in the country we haven't seen that show up yet. As long as gas stations use blender pumps for that and continue to offer true E10 fuel there is nothing to be concerned about.
Fredmahan, also note that SC's, Supras, IS's and many other cars of the same era can and do have their original fuel systems modified at significant investment to run E85 Flex Fuel systems for high horsepower engine setups. That is just to say that these cars CAN be adapted to run high ethanol fuel and FlexFuel capable aftermarket ECUs. Many key components need to be replaced but it is commonly done when someone wants to put a lot of money into making big power if their general area has the availability of E85 pumps. But that is the only reason people do it (big horsepower on a cheap 105 octane pump fuel).
^^ If you look at the details in his sig, Intimazy's modified SC running an E85 Flexfuel setup is a perfect example. But of course that's not a bone stock SC300 drivetrain or stock fuel system.
Your car as is will be fine on E10 93 octane premium fuel. Toyota designed the fuel systems to take up to E10 so don't worry about that.
Aside, to your note about seeing 90 octane non-ethanol fuel locally... you can technically run lower octane fuel if you have to if you drive carefully but it's not ideal for the engine or really recommended. A stock SC300 is intended for 91 octane or higher unless you're in a jam and 90 octane or whatever the highest grade is where you have stopped is all you have available. And even then if you haven't run to near empty whatever 91-93 is left in your tank will at least blend with the lower octane fuel. But in those situations it is best to get your fuel tank's mixture back to 91-93 as soon as you can and also take it easy on the engine until you do.
Where I am at there is a station that will sell me 93 octane non-ethanol fuel and I have tried that before. It did seem to give my stock 2JZ-GE a little more pep but ultimately I didn't seek it out more than a few times. I also wasn't sure of what detergents and fuel system cleaning additives might be in there. I might ask the company again when I have a chance. That type of non-ethanol is all I would recommend (and be sure it is still unleaded fuel if you do).
There is one other alternative and that is any place that sells VP100 100 octane non-ethanol unleaded street legal race gas. It's very rare to ever see it carried at a gas pump at a station but I've encountered one in CA before. That's technically totally fine to use but totally unneeded on a stock non-turbo SC. It's also on average about $10/gal which is crazy.
As stock our cars aren't going to have any issues with the current common ethanol concentrations out there. Any E85 converted turbo SC's aren't going to have any trouble either other than owners needing to be more on top of not keeping E85 in their tank for far too long as compared to how long regular E10 gasoline stays stable in the fuel tank over months of vehicle storage before any issue would arise.
For regular stock SC's or any SC's set up to use regular pump fuel the only alcohol concentration to be wary of in the future is anything above E10 (again, unless you've heavily modified your car to run E85 which makes the concern a moot point).
I've been running 10% Ethanol 91-93 octane premium in my car since 2010 and have had no adverse effects. I believe in my 1993 owner's manual it does state that the factory SC300 (and SC400 by extension) fuel system was designed to take up to 10% ethanol concentrations in fuel.
Now given the age of our cars it is possible that some SC's may have old rubber fuel lines anyway but they tend to hold up for decades.
^^ Also to Intimazy's point that some SC's have rusting fuel hard lines that may need to be replaced anyway.
It is E15-E20 fuel that I am concerned about myself on the *stock* fuel systems of many older cars but apart from a few places in the country we haven't seen that show up yet. As long as gas stations use blender pumps for that and continue to offer true E10 fuel there is nothing to be concerned about.
Fredmahan, also note that SC's, Supras, IS's and many other cars of the same era can and do have their original fuel systems modified at significant investment to run E85 Flex Fuel systems for high horsepower engine setups. That is just to say that these cars CAN be adapted to run high ethanol fuel and FlexFuel capable aftermarket ECUs. Many key components need to be replaced but it is commonly done when someone wants to put a lot of money into making big power if their general area has the availability of E85 pumps. But that is the only reason people do it (big horsepower on a cheap 105 octane pump fuel).
^^ If you look at the details in his sig, Intimazy's modified SC running an E85 Flexfuel setup is a perfect example. But of course that's not a bone stock SC300 drivetrain or stock fuel system.
Your car as is will be fine on E10 93 octane premium fuel. Toyota designed the fuel systems to take up to E10 so don't worry about that.
Aside, to your note about seeing 90 octane non-ethanol fuel locally... you can technically run lower octane fuel if you have to if you drive carefully but it's not ideal for the engine or really recommended. A stock SC300 is intended for 91 octane or higher unless you're in a jam and 90 octane or whatever the highest grade is where you have stopped is all you have available. And even then if you haven't run to near empty whatever 91-93 is left in your tank will at least blend with the lower octane fuel. But in those situations it is best to get your fuel tank's mixture back to 91-93 as soon as you can and also take it easy on the engine until you do.
Where I am at there is a station that will sell me 93 octane non-ethanol fuel and I have tried that before. It did seem to give my stock 2JZ-GE a little more pep but ultimately I didn't seek it out more than a few times. I also wasn't sure of what detergents and fuel system cleaning additives might be in there. I might ask the company again when I have a chance. That type of non-ethanol is all I would recommend (and be sure it is still unleaded fuel if you do).
There is one other alternative and that is any place that sells VP100 100 octane non-ethanol unleaded street legal race gas. It's very rare to ever see it carried at a gas pump at a station but I've encountered one in CA before. That's technically totally fine to use but totally unneeded on a stock non-turbo SC. It's also on average about $10/gal which is crazy.
As stock our cars aren't going to have any issues with the current common ethanol concentrations out there. Any E85 converted turbo SC's aren't going to have any trouble either other than owners needing to be more on top of not keeping E85 in their tank for far too long as compared to how long regular E10 gasoline stays stable in the fuel tank over months of vehicle storage before any issue would arise.
For regular stock SC's or any SC's set up to use regular pump fuel the only alcohol concentration to be wary of in the future is anything above E10 (again, unless you've heavily modified your car to run E85 which makes the concern a moot point).
Last edited by KahnBB6; 04-20-19 at 03:27 PM.
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