SC300 general transmission question.
11-02-20, 06:54 PM
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SC300 general transmission question.
I own a 97 sc300 that i bought with trans issues for a decent price 5k* its someone old drift car and honestly, i love it. He told me it needs a trans rebuild which me and my friend are pretty comfortable doing. However, my friend told me it might just be the shift linkage and throwout bearing causing the grinding and trouble that the car has getting into first and fourth. my question is its a direct mount w58 same one from the supra though its direct mount is there even still shift linkage? or am I out of luck. Again im ok with a trans rebuild I'm pretty mechanically inclined though saving 500 bucks wouldn't be too bad either, thanks friends.
11-03-20, 12:35 AM
#2
Welcome to Clublexus, Chase! Nice find you bought yourself!
Is that SC300 an original 1997 SC300 5-speed manual chassis? As in from the VIN number and engine/trans/axle plate it will have "W58" on there? Because if so, you have a VERY rare and sought after SC300. 1 of 120 made for the 1997 model year. If it's a factory original 5-speed manual 1997 model.
For the trans rebuild you can get the rebuild parts (or should still be able to) from a Toyota dealer or Driftmotion may sell a kit to rebuild them (not sure). There are no internal upgrade parts for W58's other than a very expensive PGS dog gearset just FYI.
By "direct mount" do you mean there is an enclosed extension housing on the back-top of the W58 transmission or do you mean that you have the straight remote shifter just like the MKIV Supra which we refer to here as a "tripod" W58?
For reference, all 1992-1994 SC300 5-speeds used an older style extension housing or "top-loader" setup with a bent "swan" shifter while the 1995-1997 SC300 5-speeds all used the later "tripod" W58 which also saw use in the 1993.5-1997 Supra 5-speed manual NA cars.
Both styles of W58 have a shift linkage. The early "top-loader" style is just internal with the shift arm being rather long in the enclosed extension housing before the shifter mates to it. The later "tripod" style has a very small shift arm that is inside a different style top housing that has a kind of rod coming out the back of it that is held up by a cast aluminum tripod extension which allows the straight shifter to insert at its top. And this tripod extension section has some bushings and boots.
If you can shoot us a picture and post it here we can tell you exactly which type of W58 transmission you have. Again, if that transmission is factory original to your 1997 SC300 then you have one of the rare 1 of 120 manual cars and if so you should register that with CL member Gerrb who will update you into the 1 of 120 owner registry.
It's also very possible that a previous owner converted your 1997 SC300 to manual (92-00 manual conversions are very common) but if that driveline is all original and if the VIN and engine/trans/axle plate all match up then that's a special '97.
For rebuilding the W58, do you have the SC300 or MKIV Supra TSRM factory service manual already which shows you the step by step Toyota specs and guide for dismantling and rebuilding the W58 back to stock specs and tolerances?
Is that SC300 an original 1997 SC300 5-speed manual chassis? As in from the VIN number and engine/trans/axle plate it will have "W58" on there? Because if so, you have a VERY rare and sought after SC300. 1 of 120 made for the 1997 model year. If it's a factory original 5-speed manual 1997 model.
For the trans rebuild you can get the rebuild parts (or should still be able to) from a Toyota dealer or Driftmotion may sell a kit to rebuild them (not sure). There are no internal upgrade parts for W58's other than a very expensive PGS dog gearset just FYI.
By "direct mount" do you mean there is an enclosed extension housing on the back-top of the W58 transmission or do you mean that you have the straight remote shifter just like the MKIV Supra which we refer to here as a "tripod" W58?
For reference, all 1992-1994 SC300 5-speeds used an older style extension housing or "top-loader" setup with a bent "swan" shifter while the 1995-1997 SC300 5-speeds all used the later "tripod" W58 which also saw use in the 1993.5-1997 Supra 5-speed manual NA cars.
Both styles of W58 have a shift linkage. The early "top-loader" style is just internal with the shift arm being rather long in the enclosed extension housing before the shifter mates to it. The later "tripod" style has a very small shift arm that is inside a different style top housing that has a kind of rod coming out the back of it that is held up by a cast aluminum tripod extension which allows the straight shifter to insert at its top. And this tripod extension section has some bushings and boots.
If you can shoot us a picture and post it here we can tell you exactly which type of W58 transmission you have. Again, if that transmission is factory original to your 1997 SC300 then you have one of the rare 1 of 120 manual cars and if so you should register that with CL member Gerrb who will update you into the 1 of 120 owner registry.
It's also very possible that a previous owner converted your 1997 SC300 to manual (92-00 manual conversions are very common) but if that driveline is all original and if the VIN and engine/trans/axle plate all match up then that's a special '97.
For rebuilding the W58, do you have the SC300 or MKIV Supra TSRM factory service manual already which shows you the step by step Toyota specs and guide for dismantling and rebuilding the W58 back to stock specs and tolerances?
Last edited by KahnBB6; 11-03-20 at 12:39 AM.
11-03-20, 06:52 AM
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no it isn't original it was swapped if it was original i would have an even bigger grin on my face hahaha. Its the swan style shifter out of the 92-94 model years. I dont have the service manual but I'm gonna pick up a digital one next paycheck. Thanks for the response i didn't know Toyota sold rebuild kits "I'm a motorcycle mechanic" and this is my first project car. one question the shift linkage for the top loader style trans. To replace it and the bushings would i need to break the trans case because in pictures it looks like there's an access plate by the shifter??? and do you think due to the issues it needs a rebuild?
11-03-20, 09:57 AM
#4
sounds like the synchros are shot, especially if it was drifted the W series wont stand up to the abuse.
there is a shifter bushing you can access from the top, just remove the shifter housing. If it is really shot you would have a floppy shifter more or less, with a vague feel, but going into gear shouldn't grind.
you can get replacements online but maybe look into a replacement trans or an R series depending on future goals.
there is a shifter bushing you can access from the top, just remove the shifter housing. If it is really shot you would have a floppy shifter more or less, with a vague feel, but going into gear shouldn't grind.
you can get replacements online but maybe look into a replacement trans or an R series depending on future goals.
11-03-20, 12:40 PM
#6
To handle heavier torque and heavy shock loading (ie: turbo) and generally to be able to stand up to high performance use on track, an R154 5-speed or Solstice/Sky AR-5 5-speed is recommended.
Or you can alternatively adapt an R150 or R155 5-speed even though the gearing is not ideal in 1st with either of those. A DIY thread for that has come up recently.
With the R series transmissions there are internal upgrade parts available.
There is also the Tremec T56 Magnum 6-speed but it’s very expensive to get into.
I recommend a twin-plate clutch with any of those if you’re pushing turbo power for several reasons.
As Ali SC3 said, which transmission to choose depends on what your driving style and plans for the car are.
The W58 in good condition is a great manual transmission but it’s best suited for NA engines and not so much frequent abuse from drifting.
Or you can alternatively adapt an R150 or R155 5-speed even though the gearing is not ideal in 1st with either of those. A DIY thread for that has come up recently.
With the R series transmissions there are internal upgrade parts available.
There is also the Tremec T56 Magnum 6-speed but it’s very expensive to get into.
I recommend a twin-plate clutch with any of those if you’re pushing turbo power for several reasons.
As Ali SC3 said, which transmission to choose depends on what your driving style and plans for the car are.
The W58 in good condition is a great manual transmission but it’s best suited for NA engines and not so much frequent abuse from drifting.
11-03-20, 12:54 PM
#7
Are you planning to turbocharge it down the road? if so then find an R series swap.
If not then just find a good w58 and put it back in there with a fresh clutch, those transmissions will last forever behind a stock engine that isn't constantly clutch kicked or dumped on.
I would just double check to make sure that it is not a master/slave cylinder issue not releasing the clutch all the way, push the pedal and watch the fork on the side of the transmission (use your phone to record or helper etc..)
If the slave cylinder is extending and pushing the fork all the way and holding, then its probably an internal issue with the transmission.
if it hardly extends or extends and then creeps back slowly while you are holding the pedal down, then you probably have an issue with the hydraulics and its not releasing the clutch fully.
from what you said it sounds like it is releasing but something else is wrong, but it is hard to say without being there and test driving it.
But I would check that first, cause it can happen, have had a master cylinder completely go out but usually it will just stop releasing entirely pretty quickly and you get stuck in a gear/ and have trouble shifting at all.
Also if you get another swan neck type w58, it will be a bolt in affair since you already have one (and someone already cut your auto tunnel in the forward spot for the shifter to come up).
If you get one of the newer 95+ SC w58s or any of the mk4 w58's then those are "tripod" style and you will have to make another hole in your tunnel close to the original auto hole if I remember right.
I prefer the tripod transmissions, but maybe have a look at your tunnel and plan to cover some of the old holes before you end up making swiss cheese out of it. good luck!
I would also guess that someone who was drifting and trashed the trans also kept abusing the e-brake like you said with the light on, the probably maxed out the adjustment on the lever and wore out the pads entirely, so you will need to readjust the slack and also get in there and do the pads sometimes, which if you want to guess, is the least fun job brake wise on that car but not the hardest job either.
If not then just find a good w58 and put it back in there with a fresh clutch, those transmissions will last forever behind a stock engine that isn't constantly clutch kicked or dumped on.
I would just double check to make sure that it is not a master/slave cylinder issue not releasing the clutch all the way, push the pedal and watch the fork on the side of the transmission (use your phone to record or helper etc..)
If the slave cylinder is extending and pushing the fork all the way and holding, then its probably an internal issue with the transmission.
if it hardly extends or extends and then creeps back slowly while you are holding the pedal down, then you probably have an issue with the hydraulics and its not releasing the clutch fully.
from what you said it sounds like it is releasing but something else is wrong, but it is hard to say without being there and test driving it.
But I would check that first, cause it can happen, have had a master cylinder completely go out but usually it will just stop releasing entirely pretty quickly and you get stuck in a gear/ and have trouble shifting at all.
Also if you get another swan neck type w58, it will be a bolt in affair since you already have one (and someone already cut your auto tunnel in the forward spot for the shifter to come up).
If you get one of the newer 95+ SC w58s or any of the mk4 w58's then those are "tripod" style and you will have to make another hole in your tunnel close to the original auto hole if I remember right.
I prefer the tripod transmissions, but maybe have a look at your tunnel and plan to cover some of the old holes before you end up making swiss cheese out of it. good luck!
I would also guess that someone who was drifting and trashed the trans also kept abusing the e-brake like you said with the light on, the probably maxed out the adjustment on the lever and wore out the pads entirely, so you will need to readjust the slack and also get in there and do the pads sometimes, which if you want to guess, is the least fun job brake wise on that car but not the hardest job either.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 11-03-20 at 01:00 PM.
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KahnBB6 (11-03-20)
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11-03-20, 05:25 PM
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I looked on the back and the rotors are cracked and the pads have delaminated..... so yeah it's been heavily abused. but yeah it gives me a reason to get drilled and slotted all the way around. does the sc300 have the boots and shoes for its e brake or does it go through the pads I'm not super opposed to doing my brake job but it would be appreciated if you could send me in the right direction? and im gonna try to rebuild my w58 its a 2jz-ge non turbo so im gonna keep it that way don't wanna over complicate it il get it a friend to help me see if its the slave clutch cylinder but if trans needs to be rebuilt im ok with it.
11-03-20, 05:26 PM
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im gonna keep my car NA and drift but not alot a fun street build for those rainy days so im thinking rebuilding my w58 is the mosty reasonable. w58s are like 2gs haha
11-04-20, 01:47 AM
#10
The SC300/400 parking brake handle connects to metal cables encased in some rubber covering material (like bicycle brake lines basically) that lead back to the rear rotor parking brake shoes that use the rear rotors to push against. As Ali SC3 was saying, it's not a fun job but if you've ever had to service drum brakes before it's pretty similar. So long as they aren't abused through drifting the shoes can last decades.
Keeping the car NA for the purpose of drifting I would still recommend you look into an R154, AR-5, R150 or R155 transmission (the first two having the most ideal gearing) along with a 4.272:1 ratio rear end (stock SC300 Automatic ratio) and a 2-way clutch type LSD or OEM Torsen LSD. I ran a configuration that was pretty much exactly like this for years and loved it. Further, you only need a stock Supra MKIII Turbo R154 clutch (1986-1992) if you have the stock NA engine.
My configuration was: 100% stock NA 2JZ-GE (w/stock cats and a catback exhaust and 5-speed M/T ECU), Supra MKIII R154 trans, cheap OEM R154 Supra clutch kit, Torsen LSD w/4.272:1 SC300 Auto rear end gearing, Yellr Yellowbox speedo convertor. Extremely durable SC300 setup.
A 4.083:1 ring and pinion from an SC300 5-speed, MKIV Supra NA 93-96, Soarer or certain models years of the GS300 is also a good choice with an NA engine and manual transmission.
Keep overall wheel and tire diameter at around 25.7" or so with 17" rims (or max 18" rims) to maximize the acceleration potential of the 2JZ-GE NA. You won't want to run any larger than a 275mm wide rear tire with an NA 2JZ engine. 265 or 255 in the rear might be more ideal depending on the overall diameter.
Check out this thread for the (so far) cheapest R-series transmission swap you can get into that will be stronger than the W58 for the purposes of hard driving and drifting:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/bui...estions-4.html
^^ Note the gear ratios it has versus the ratios in an R154 or Solstice AR-5 but it is a cheaper point of entry for a much stronger manual transmission than a W58 that can bolt up with minimal changes right from the Toyota parts bin.
Keeping the car NA for the purpose of drifting I would still recommend you look into an R154, AR-5, R150 or R155 transmission (the first two having the most ideal gearing) along with a 4.272:1 ratio rear end (stock SC300 Automatic ratio) and a 2-way clutch type LSD or OEM Torsen LSD. I ran a configuration that was pretty much exactly like this for years and loved it. Further, you only need a stock Supra MKIII Turbo R154 clutch (1986-1992) if you have the stock NA engine.
My configuration was: 100% stock NA 2JZ-GE (w/stock cats and a catback exhaust and 5-speed M/T ECU), Supra MKIII R154 trans, cheap OEM R154 Supra clutch kit, Torsen LSD w/4.272:1 SC300 Auto rear end gearing, Yellr Yellowbox speedo convertor. Extremely durable SC300 setup.
A 4.083:1 ring and pinion from an SC300 5-speed, MKIV Supra NA 93-96, Soarer or certain models years of the GS300 is also a good choice with an NA engine and manual transmission.
Keep overall wheel and tire diameter at around 25.7" or so with 17" rims (or max 18" rims) to maximize the acceleration potential of the 2JZ-GE NA. You won't want to run any larger than a 275mm wide rear tire with an NA 2JZ engine. 265 or 255 in the rear might be more ideal depending on the overall diameter.
Check out this thread for the (so far) cheapest R-series transmission swap you can get into that will be stronger than the W58 for the purposes of hard driving and drifting:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/bui...estions-4.html
^^ Note the gear ratios it has versus the ratios in an R154 or Solstice AR-5 but it is a cheaper point of entry for a much stronger manual transmission than a W58 that can bolt up with minimal changes right from the Toyota parts bin.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 11-04-20 at 01:50 AM.
11-04-20, 12:06 PM
#11
Kinda sounds like you may be the drifting friend now lol. Kahn has some great info as always ^^
The pads you can see are for the main brakes, the e-brake is housed inside the rear rotor and you cannot generally see it without removing everything or using the inspection hole.
For the rear you will need rear rotors, pads for the main brakes, and new drum brake pads for the ebrake along with the associated hardware (comes in a kit).
changing out the pads on the main brakes is easy, so most people just do that and don't bother with the ebrake or removing the rotor.
to get to the ebrake you have to pop off that rear rotor, which is usually rusted badly in place, and they usually crack when them trying to get them off (using the threaded holes and spare bolts).
So if you have a cracked rear rotor someone probably tried to get in there and abandoned the mission cause it is difficult to get off if you have never done it before, or that ebrake was yanked till things got so hot it cracked which I guess could happen but haven't seen it.
I would honestly recommend going through more than just the brakes, if that is the condition of the car I would be suspicious of everything.
The pads you can see are for the main brakes, the e-brake is housed inside the rear rotor and you cannot generally see it without removing everything or using the inspection hole.
For the rear you will need rear rotors, pads for the main brakes, and new drum brake pads for the ebrake along with the associated hardware (comes in a kit).
changing out the pads on the main brakes is easy, so most people just do that and don't bother with the ebrake or removing the rotor.
to get to the ebrake you have to pop off that rear rotor, which is usually rusted badly in place, and they usually crack when them trying to get them off (using the threaded holes and spare bolts).
So if you have a cracked rear rotor someone probably tried to get in there and abandoned the mission cause it is difficult to get off if you have never done it before, or that ebrake was yanked till things got so hot it cracked which I guess could happen but haven't seen it.
I would honestly recommend going through more than just the brakes, if that is the condition of the car I would be suspicious of everything.
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11-04-20, 12:13 PM
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thanks for the help man! Honestly, you guys have made my nerves drop alot just for knowing theres a nice place with good people to learn from. Im planning to go over everything lol. Its a crazt build with a tube front and full megans racing everything so I'm still confident in my purchase. I'm gonna get the money and set off on my brake job journey. thanks for all the help! Il update yall ok that but while im here do does anyone have interior pieces they would sell?
11-04-20, 01:04 PM
#13
Sounds good if you get stuck just search on here or post up, most everything has been done on these cars by the people that are reading on here and there are some good moderators as well.
Would def advise getting the brakes sorted before hitting any tracks with it, especially the e-brake and while you have the wheels off take a look around make sure everything looks good and nothing is loose especially anything aftermarket looking.
check the classifieds I think there were some tan pieces listed in there. alot more of these SCs showing up in yards these days too.
After hearing more about the car it sounds like a track car, so if you do plan to seriously try and drift at all, you may want to just go R series because the W series wont hold up to long term abuse especially with a lsd in the mix.
Now if it were more a normal stock sounding SC with some coilovers and you do the occasional power over in a lot, then the w58 would be just fine.
for drifting you could even use the truck version of the R series with the deeper first gear since you wont be using it that much anyways, it is a little more budget friendly to put together a setup.
Read here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/bui...-the-r154.html
Would def advise getting the brakes sorted before hitting any tracks with it, especially the e-brake and while you have the wheels off take a look around make sure everything looks good and nothing is loose especially anything aftermarket looking.
check the classifieds I think there were some tan pieces listed in there. alot more of these SCs showing up in yards these days too.
After hearing more about the car it sounds like a track car, so if you do plan to seriously try and drift at all, you may want to just go R series because the W series wont hold up to long term abuse especially with a lsd in the mix.
Now if it were more a normal stock sounding SC with some coilovers and you do the occasional power over in a lot, then the w58 would be just fine.
for drifting you could even use the truck version of the R series with the deeper first gear since you wont be using it that much anyways, it is a little more budget friendly to put together a setup.
Read here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/bui...-the-r154.html
Last edited by Ali SC3; 11-04-20 at 01:09 PM.
11-04-20, 01:15 PM
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just realised i have one more question. So the tach doesnt work and im 100% confident its because of the trans swap because of the sensors on the trans housing. What is the most likely reason it doesn't work? do i need a new speedo? or does it just most likely not have the sensor.