Brokeguy

Working on cosmetics for the foreseeable future, but curious as how to make the most horsepower possible without turboing?

98sscamaro

iTrader: (1)

Nitrous. 😂

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

It's not really recommended that you do this. If you're thinking of trying to make power without forced induction the way most old to new Ford/GM/Chrysler-Dodge V8 engines make power... you'll be disappointed. The 2JZ-GE is already dialed in for a balance of naturally aspirated streetable power, fuel economy and emissions.

A cold air intake will do next to nothing as will a full header upgrade and straight pipe system. Nitrous will do a little something but you really want that dialed in perfectly and being realistic you are not going to hit a nitrous button every single time you want more than 225hp and 210ft-lbs. Plus it can shorten engine life depending on the tuning and mixture.

....

There is one route that can get you just around or close to 300whp.... but be prepared to open your wallet and do a LOT of custom engine work that only a dozen or so people in the world have attempted with a naturally aspirated 2JZ-GE engine. And be prepared for this to basically be a barely streetable race engine that needs a full tank of E85 or a full tank of VP100 race gas to achieve that output.

Here's a build thread detailing such an NA build. The owner did end up with somewhat impressive results but he probably spent 3x the cost (or more) of building an NA-T 2JZ-GE setup that would make 500whp easily and completely outperform his very cool and exotic but not very cost effective NA 2JZ race build:

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/...-supra.565448/

It's a very cool route that he went to but he did it mostly to try something different with no regard as to what a final output number would be.

....

The Toyota 1JZ and 2JZ engine family was primarily designed for turbocharging right at the onset. They just happened to make such a strong and reliable engine series from that mandate that they were able to spread the cost around with naturally aspirated variants in 2.5L and 3.0L displacements all of which offered adequate power from 200hp to 225hp.

2JZ's are heavy, long, iron block and in stock form do not rev particularly high. Their rotating assemblies are very strong (pre-VVT-i GE and all GTE's) 2.5L 1JZ's rev higher due to their having an over-square bore and stroke but even with those engines the way to go is turbocharging.

It would be easier to buy an early 2000's BMW M3 with the 333hp inline-six NA engine than to build an NA 2JZ-GE.

It is also far easier and more affordable to just build the 2JZ-GE in your SC300 as an NA-T. And the results in horsepower, torque and street-ability will be dramatically better than the route LRG_Soup @ Supraforums took. I give him huge respect for undertaking what he did to achieve such a cool result but he ended up with what was essentially a dedicated track car... not at all a street car.

I understand where you're coming from because I was thinking along those lines myself a long time ago but the honest truth is that the JZ design one of the best turbo or turbo-capable engines ever made. But it is NOT one of the most capable naturally aspirated high performance engines ever made. In factory stock NA spec it is nearly bulletproof though-- the highest mileage recorded so far being in excess of 520k miles (stock naturally aspirated). That's very good considering the modest but respectable performance an unmodified 2JZ-GE offers as-is. When turbocharged and setup up with the right ECU and tune (which can be as simple and affordable as a JDM Aristo 2JZ-GTE ECU) it is still a very long lasting and reliable turbo engine-- with potentially a LOT of horsepower.

Just being honest. Trying to get appreciable horsepower increases from a JZ without a turbo is not the way to go. A turbo via a 2JZ-GE NA-T, 2JZ-GTE or 1JZ-GTE are.

Some other performance engines respond very well and easily to aftermarket NA power tuning. The JZ is not one of them but it makes up for this by being an amazingly capable turbo engine.

1997Soarer

iTrader: (1)

Brendan has roughly 20-25k+ into that ITB build in his Toyota Supra. As of right now he holds the world record for a naturally aspirated 2JZ-GE motor. No one has managed to put down more than he did: ~320whp as of last year. I hear he detuned it a bit to make it more reliable for track days.
There have been a couple other people worldwide that have built/attempted ITB 2JZ-GEs however none of them ever made numbers to brag about. ITB builds seem to plateau around 250ish whp. There have been only 3 exceptions to this that I know of. That one guy on Supraforums who did an ITB JZA80 in Australia but disappeared (260ish - had a built head and block), the YSR Japan demo car (300ish - fully built head and block but running Japanese high octane), and Brendan (LRG SOUP / NA*HERO - see build below) who managed 320whp on E85

Here's Brendan's most recent SuperStreet article from May 2019
http://www.superstreetonline.com/fea...made-not-born/

And this was his first SuperStreet feature from Dec 2015
http://www.superstreetonline.com/fea...pra-with-itbs/

1997Soarer

iTrader: (1)

But worth mentioning, if you want the highest reliable, daily driving horsepower out of a 2JZ-GE that is non-turbo, you want to have a VVTI motor and do the mods that a lot of IS300 owners do before they reverse course and go turbo.
IS300 cars slapped with all the good bolt-ons and a few other tricks manage to make a reliable 235whp on pump gas (93)

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ $25k+ invested?? I believe it. Brendan's dedication to that build is very impressive. I don't doubt it that no one has matched the numbers he finally achieved but what you describe is what I had suspected: it only makes that 320whp on E85 (105 octane) or VP100 (100 octane) fuels and even then it's at the limit of what can be squeezed from the engine without forced induction. An absolutely brilliant and unique track car but not at all a streetable (or remotely affordable) setup.

Thanks for the Super Street article link! I'd forgotten he'd had his car featured. It really is a beautiful machine he built. But he was not ever trying to compete with turbocharged JZ engine builds other than to maximize a naturally aspirated JZ as much as possible.

I also didn't know that even 235whp (up from about 180whp stock) could be achieved for far less money with a 2JZ-GE VVT-i engine using bolt-ons and some piggyback tuning. However even that doesn't seem worth it when all that money, time and effort could be put into an NA-T build or GTE swap where ever higher horsepower potential is never a problem.

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

Getting NA power out of a 2JZ is a bit like going forced induction with a 1UZ. There's no readily available template to follow, so it'll cost you dramatically more time and money.

...which leads me to two tongue-in-cheek answers to the OP's question:

1) 1UZ swap! Everyone recommends 1UZ to 2JZ swaps, but going the other direction is actually a cost effective solution.

2) M/T conversion. You'll get maybe 10% more power via less drivetrain loss, but more importantly, be able to take advantage of the available power much better.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

You have it right. I'll also add 1JZ-GE VVT-i connecting rods (and also the pistons and rings) being similarly inadequate for much more than a very, very mild forced induction application. And even then I would not do it without pulling the engine and replacing with 3.0L Non-VVT-i GE or 3.0L GTE rods at a minimum.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

The timing of this video coming out in the last day is nice. If anyone else here watches the builds and amazing work that RetroPower in the UK regularly documents you'll be familiar with the Mark II Jaguar sedan (1959-1967 body style) that they're doing as a full restomod for a customer. It's set to remain a manual vehicle and will use a naturally aspirated 2JZ-GE engine with a custom fuel injection multiple throttle body setup and whatever other minimum engine electrical wiring they'll need for it.

They're not doing this to achieve high horsepower numbers but rather because the 2JZ is such a bulletproof and reliable straight-six engine design that already makes horsepower similar to the original Jaguar inline six engines in their near highest state of tune (about 220-245hp). It'll probably make around the same power as a stock 2JZ-GE or maybe a little more.

It's definitely not going to be a high numbers car but rather a totally reworked classic restomod cruiser with a more reliable I-6 engine and manual transmission.

The relevant 2JZ-GE build focus is in the first five minutes of this video below. Previous videos on their channel cover a lot more on the bodywork and a little more on the procurement and custom design of some parts for the 2JZ engine, their full explanation of why they chose it and decided to stay naturally aspirated for *this* vehicle.

The static picture on the clickable video link is for another vehicle they're working on. Disregard that. The 2JZ-GE MKII Jaguar is nicknamed "Project Utah" in their video series.


A couple of their previous videos on this car, featuring just a bit of the GS300 2JZ-GE engine they're using.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

This does not surprise me. Classic Jaguars are beautiful cars but they were not known for making reliable engines and their use of electrical systems from Lucas did not help either.

Bimmerbill

Sargon,
I guess you and I are the only ones that remember that article. I still have some of my old parts in the garage. The bad thing about the head on that engine it was not a cross flow design and the Mickey Mouse way they did the distributor and oil pump. But I loved the engine, you could build a stroker with a Chevy 292 crank and end up with a little over 300 ci. Oh well that is my reminiscing for the day.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

A friend of mine owns an unrestored (so far) 1970 Jaguar E-Type Series 2 with the original 4.2L inline-six and four speed manual. When he'd recently gotten it running again he let me drive it. Even with so much work left to do for its restoration and a badly slipping old clutch it was a lot of fun. The engine is no powerhouse but it felt great and fun. I don't really miss carburetors after having owned a carb fueled V8 vehicle years ago but those twin or triple(?) side draft carbs on the Jag inline-six are something that is now unique and rare to experience.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

For those interested, Retropower cars finally got their customer’s Jaguar MK2 sedan powered by a Weber carbureted 2JZ-GE running. It sounds great!

It probably only makes about the same horsepower as stock at best but for a restomod classic like this it’s a great upgrade in power and reliability from the original Jaguar straight six engine.

Enjoy

RXRodger

iTrader: (2)

I have been meaning to reply to this thread since it came out last year. This guy says he wants to know how to make the most power out of a normally aspirated 2JZGE and most of the comments are (predictably) just turbo it or something unrelated. There are many many threads on how to turbo a 2JZGE, if he wanted to know any of that he could go to those threads. If you don't have anything to offer, just move along to the next thread. Leave this one for the few of us that want to get the most out of a naturally aspirated 2J.

Turbostar

If he is going to swap, probably better to do an LS swap!