KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

This is a long term side project that I've been toying with for some time now. I've wanted a backup camera in my SC for years now and the screen end of it is easy but the camera end of it is not so elegantly integrated with common universal kits.

Most people will use a 2-DIN stereo head unit that has a large screen for the viewing the image. My solution is to use an aftermarket Gentex rear view mirror with a small 4:3 screen built in to the mirror which is only visible when powered on. The model numbers for their offerings keep changing every couple of years so I won't list them here. Amazon carries a few of them as does Boxelectronics, one of their official distributors. The windshield mount needs to be changed out to fit one of those.

That part is easy.

The much harder part is the camera itself. I don't want to use a license plate frame mounted camera... too inelegant and easily vandalized. I'm also not too keen on ruining the area just between the two license plate illumination light panels. It's just so narrow in that location and so low that anything but a 90-degree angled camera would have a chance of giving a good field of view. Also the plastic screw in that location is part of the bumper affixing design.

That leaves the rear wing for SC's so equipped. And the 1991-1996 UZZ30, UZZ31 and UZZ32 Toyota Soarers did have a factory "reversing camera" option which was housed in the early style rear wing (the "flat" style found on most early SC400's). Here are a few pictures of this collected from around the web and from a couple of our members here with Soarers:










Here's the Soarer factory backup / reversing camera system as shown in some original brochures from the time:







And here are a few pictures from past for sale ads that I was able to locate for reference of what these pieces look like outside the car. The early 90's era color CCD camera unit was actually a bit long and angled at the lens at 90 degrees inside the rear wing to make that part of it fit inside the tight space. Then a cable for it entered the trunk with the LED brake light wiring, ran alongside one of the curved trunk hinges and connected to a control unit/ECU for the camera before connecting all the way up to the Electro-Multi-Vision head unit in the dash/console area.

Soarer owners whose cars have this option have reported that it does work with newer 2-DIN head units using a converter box. It's an SD 480i NTSC camera so it should once the pinouts are accounted for.












It's a great system and it's in a perfect location for these cars but it's incredibly rare to find for sale.

That being the case, I'm looking to build another more modern camera into the 92-96 SC400 "flat" wing. Unfortunately the little window part, mounting brackets, the plastic cladding to hold the cable on to the trunk hinge and most likely the $3,500 factory CCD camera and its control computer are all discontinued.

The first issue is whether or not to use a camera with its own weather sealed lens or a camera that requires a similar "window" to be constructed to go onto the factory fiberglass wing after some careful measuring and cutting.

The second issue is what angle of alignment the camera needs.

I've been looking at 2015-2018 and 2019+ Dodge Challenger rear wing mounted backup cameras and they seem to be at a nearly straight-out angle. The Soarer/SC400 92-96 rear wing is only flat on top. In the area where the factory back-up camera went there is a severe angle to its surface which makes me think that the factory alignment of the original CCD camera was NOT straight out but rather angled downward just a little bit even if it had a wider than 170-degree field of view with a super wide angle lens.

Here's the 2015-2018 Dodge challenger wing mounted (internal) factory backup camera. Note the angle and how this would be very difficult to get to work on the 1992-1996 SC400 factory rear wing from both the outside and inside with custom mounting brackets being required. I'm not sure if Ford Mustangs made in the last 16 years have anything better.





The third issue is the quality of the camera itself. If I'm going to permanently modify and cut into a good rear wing I want whatever I'm putting in there to last and be replaceable with exactly the same part once I obtain a good/new spare. I don't like the idea of a $30-$40 aftermarket camera crapping out suddenly after a couple of years and find that it has become discontinued. That would mean the factory Lexus wing would be permanently modified for some cheap camera design that cannot be directly replaced if a failure were to occur.

And I want it to seal as well as if Toyota had engineered it that way, gasket and all. A flush mount camera with adjustability would be the best choice IF I were to go aftermarket.

I have quality and durability concerns with it but there is this Nakita or a near identical one which is made by Coolint:




Overall I'd much prefer to find a good OEM backup camera by Toyota or ANY other major car manufacturer that can be made to work with the 92-96 wing in this location. That way there would be at least some guarantee of long term durability and extreme hot or cold weather performance without issues.

If any Toyota Soarer owners who have this option on their cars happen to see this thread would it be possible to take a look at your factory reversing camera to estimate the alignment angle of the lens? I'd also love to know the dimensions of that little window bezel and what kind of window material it houses (glass, some kind of clear plastic, plexiglass, etc?).

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

What about putting one of those Dodge Challenger cameras on the underside of a '97-00 spoiler? You'd have to get a different trunk lid, of course, but at least it would still be a stock setup.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

I don't think there is any way to access the inside of the 97-00 SC factory rear wing other than the LED lighting element but I could be wrong. It doesn't look like there is enough space inside that design.

For myself though I love the 92-96 style rear wing aesthetically and I want to stay with it. I have a spare one that I've sanded down and prepped for paint that is also my guinea pig for this project. I've acquired all the factory gaskets needed to re-seal it once it's mounted again. There is plenty of room inside it for a modern backup camera design. The factory CCD camera used in the Soarer is likely built very well and will continue to last over time and due to its physical size the wing had to be designed to accommodate it... which in this case paired with modern camera technology is a plus.

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

I don't think I've opened up a '97-00 spoiler, but I assume you're right that it has less of a void than the '92-96 duckbills. But, isn't that Challenger camera a surface mount unit? Ideally, the mounting screws would be captive inside (i.e., in a void), but that isn't necessary. Running the wire would be the only concern.

But, if you want to stick with the '92-96 spoiler, that's a non-starter.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ I'd need to find a 2015-2018 or 2019-2022 Challenger with the spoiler in order to take a close look at how it is mounted but I'm already thinking that camera is not going to be a good candidate given how it mounts and how its lens is not angled at all.

In my case yes I'm sticking with the '92-'96 flat/duckbill style spoiler. I just love it aesthetically on the car with the '92-'96 style factory lower body pieces and the '97-'00 front bumper. It gives the SC a nice subtle rake from front to rear.

As a bonus I know that it is possible to replicate the Soarer backup camera setup somehow with it.

ninetwo

I have a buddy with a couple hellcats I could get him to send me some videos of the camera from exterior?

CLass of 1

I was considering finding a camera the same diameter as the key hole in the tail light. It wouldn’t be perfectly centered but I’m used to not having a backup camera and really only use it for the last few inches, when I do I have one equipped.

I do like this idea, Craig. Curious to see where it leads!

Good luck.

Nick

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Hey ninetwo, I appreciate the offer! Since my original post I actually did get a look up close at a Challenger SRT or Hellcat model in a parking lot and in looking at that car's rear wing and camera I could see that there might actually be an issue with using it on the SC's 92-96 wing.

Apart from figuring out how to mount it cleanly in the first place (by permanently cutting into increasingly rare original fiberglass that the SC wind is made out of) the issue would be with the angle of the Dodge backup camera lens. The SC/Soarer rear duckbill style wing has a curve to its lower side. The Dodge camera is just flat and not angled as far as I could tell. On the SC that camera would have a direct view of the ground. This made me suspect that the 91-96 Soarer EMV backup camera is angled slightly within the little window panel that it mounts behind inside of the wing.

My guess would be about 20-30 degrees of angle upward from the surface of the curved area of the wing's underside. All done internally on the Soarer backup camera's mounting inside the wing.

I'm going to keep looking for other options. Actually building a custom internal steel bracket with which to mount a camera at the right angle is perhaps the easiest part of this. The harder part is to figure out whether or not the donor backup camera should be allowed to mount flush onto the wing with no protection for the lens (and thus a need to get all sealing and gaskets sorted out as well) or if I need to also pursue a recreation of the little window section that all Soarers with the factory backup camera have so as to totally seal the camera and inside of the wing from any outside moisture.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Nick,

I've been doing fine without a backup camera in my SC for many years now. It's really just in Los Angeles where I felt frustrated enough to pursue this idea because the parking is often so tight and it can be difficult when large vehicles block your rearward view on both sides such that you really can't be sure if someone is about to roll past you or not while you're trying to back up the car. In Florida it's not usually so much of an issue with tight parking spaces.

Nonetheless it's an option I'd prefer to have... if I can get the install done right.

I'd advise against the rear tail light keyhole as a camera location. Redundancy for even the most basic of functions is something that I feel is very important and I can think of a number of reasons where if the keyless entry system or trunk release moment switch under the dash were to fail there would still be a need to open the trunk manually with the key.

The best alternative location to the 1992-1996 style rear wing would be just above or on the license plate frame. However in both of those locations you would want a flat angle at least or perhaps a very very slight upward sweep of 5 degrees or so since the camera would be so low. It would depend on the camera's effective field of view also. 170-180 degrees should be sufficient, I think.

Soarerson

I just stumbled on this old thread, so you may well have competed (or abandoned) this project by now?
however, you did say “long term” project, so if it’s still of interest let me know as I have a soarer with the camera option and would be happy to assist with info etc.
also, from time to time ppl sell spoilers with the camera housing, which I suspect would make your life easier.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Hey Sorareson. Thank you for commenting here!

I did try to take this a little further on my own with more research but I did more or less let the project go as i just wasn't satisfied with many of the aftermarket or re-appropriated alternatie OEM options. The Soarer Z30 original backup camera system, however antiquated inside is just very elegant to begin with and can be hooked up to a modern screen head unit if desired.

You're lucky to find a Soarer with this option! Do you own a UZZ30/31? UZZ32? I don't think JZZ30's got the option. Maybe just the JZZ30 Limited A/T trim levels with factory leather?

I do keep an eye out in case one of the wings with camera and the camera "ECU" show up for sale but I haven't seen any lately.

I think the main thing that might be helpful for the SC community going forward would be to pull off one of these wings and take some detailed measurements and pictures... or even a 3D scan of the window piece and the internal mounting brackets. I am 90% sure that all the fiberglass early style wings, even those which came on SC300/400's from 92-96, have the internal mounting points for the camera brackets. They just won't have a hole machined out of them for the plastic camera bezel and plastic window.

Actually... is that little camera window made of plastic? Plexiglass? Actual glass?

Pulling off a wing and re-sealing it would be a big ordeal and not helpful to you unless you were doing a restoration and repaint on your Soarer. However some more scrutinized outside inspection of that camera window would be simple and could provide us with insights to possibly recreating it. Then either an OEM Soarer camera or aftermarket one could be mounted inside a wing with the hole cut out in exactly the same location. Theoretically.

....

I am content to continue to take this slow and continue to learn about what may or may not be possible for now... but it would be significant if that window could be re-created. I tried to order it from Japan but it had long since been out of production by then.

Please feel free to share any pictures if you wish to and thank you for your offer!

I do agree with you that ideally finding the wing and OEM camera parts for sale would be the easiest option should the opportunity arise.

Soarerson

Ok, I’ll try to take some detailed photos in the next few days. My car is a uzz32, suspiciously similar to the bluish silver one in one of the photos above. :-)

FYI, the reversing camera was an option only on the UZZ31 and UZZ32 (as the other Soarers of that generation did not have the EMV screen needed to display the picture).

Thanks also for inspiring me to think about scanning. Although I don’t have a scanner, I downloaded Scaniverse today and had a bit of a play and it has potential. This site won’t let me attach .usdz files, but once I manage to get a good scan I can send it through eg Dropbox.

Meanwhile, if you have recommendations on scanners and/or scanning apps, pls let me know.

Soarerson

Test of scanner app - will do a better version but here’s a preview. https://aus01.safelinks.protection.o...%3D&reserved=0

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Wow!! Thank you very much Soarerson!!! That is above and beyond, sir!!

So now we do have some measurements for the small window bezel. And can you tell just by tapping it... is the little window plastic? Plexiglass? Actual glass?

I think the way to get around that posting issue is to copy the *.usdz files into a folder and turn that into a *.zip file. Then it should allow you to post them assuming their byte size isn't huge.

I am not familiar with any scanner apps myself, just the general method and usefulness they are providing in the vintage and custom car community today. On the youtube channel SuperFastMatt he does some comparison of cheap phone based scanning apps and a rented or borrowed professional scanning device. He overwhelmingly prefers the professional device of course but they are very costly at current time.