3dog

iTrader: (1)

do any of you guys have experience with the limited slip diff on snow and or ice? i live up north in the state of washington near seattle and just ordered a rmm 3.76 lsd. now we get the ocassional snowstorm and some black-ice. so today i'm reading something about lsd getting confused in low grip situations. have i just made a big mistake ordering this lsd or will blizzack ice tires be the answer? thanks ivan

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

If you're really worried about ice, either stay home or get a winter beater. A powerful rear wheel drive car is going to have limitations no matter what you do to it. I believe the LSD will help not hurt your situation though. But #1 problem on ice is usually the driver.

3dog

iTrader: (1)

okay what i read was from ron430 and his comments were that sometimes an lsd will try to send power to the other wheel and that wheel will try to send it back and this cycle continues with no power going anywhere. i am not concerned with my driving capabilities as i have dealt with these same conditions for 35 years in the same location, i have never been in a wreck or become stuck. if conditions were just horrible i have stayed at home. driving front wheel drive, as well as rear wheel drive cars with high hp. as well as a 69 chevy van with a 307 engine and no weight in the rear end. i just want to know if the lsd can get confused on ice and not send any power to either wheel. if i need to get a beater i probably wouldn't drive it more than once or twice a year

redgs4

I'm quoting myself from another thread... The torsen is not a true LSD but is close enough in all but the zero traction situation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a link to a Torsen differential whitepaper,
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/frame...fferential.html

From the How Stuff Works Site...

The Torsen (from Torque Sensing) works as an open differential when the amount of torque going to each wheel is equal. As soon as one wheel starts to lose traction, the difference in torque causes the gears in the Torsen differential to bind together. The design of the gears in the differential determines the torque bias ratio. For instance, if a particular Torsen differential is designed with a 5:1 bias ratio, it is capable of applying up to five times more torque to the wheel that has good traction. ...However, if one wheel loses traction completely, the Torsen differential will be unable to supply any torque to the other wheel. The bias ratio determines how much torque can be transferred, and five times zero is zero.

Zexel Torsen, Inc, http://www.torsen.com/, the maker of the torsen differential never mentions limited slip but rather torque distribution. While JZS14SEVEN may technically be correct and is certainly in agreement with Zexel propaganda, a torsen differential provides the same end function as an LSD.

3dog

iTrader: (1)

redgs4 thanks for the information. i'm assuming that on a sheet of ice, like a hockey rink would have, that no power would then be generated. the links on ur post didn't get me anything. i'd like to hear from anyone who lives in a northern state or canada and who has dealt with severe ice while having the rmm 3.76 torsen type lsd

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

If you're on a sheet of ice like a hockey rink, it won't matter if you have 8 wheel drive.

cyberseano

I have the RMM/Supra 3.76 LSD

Ok without getting technical I’ll try to explain what you’ll experience with the 3.76 LSD.

Before I had the LSD installed when it was really wet out (Raining or right after a rain) if I went around a corner and gave the car gas the inside tire would spin a little and the outer tire would basically do nothing at all. It would just fallow around with the car like a good little tire with NO power to it. Very hard to break the rear end of the car loose while going through a turn since one of the tires would always be doing nothing. This doesn’t mean that if I didn’t try hard enough it wouldn’t happen.

Now…. Ever since I had the LSD installed this is what happens during slick situations. (Rain or wet pavement). The first time I went around a wet corner after having the LSD installed (Without traction control on) I gave the car a little gas and in an instant I was facing on-coming traffic. INSTANT 180. What happens is that the LSD is transferring power now to the outer tire which also breaks lose just like the inner tire sending the car into a power-slide because both wheels are spinning on top of a nice wet surface.

Put it this way. With the LSD, Torque Converter, Intake, Exhaust, Traction Control Off, it makes for a VERY interesting experience trying to drive during slick conditions. I feel pretty silly sometimes just trying to take off from stop sign. People honking at me while I’m slowly taking off trying to keep my wheels from breaking lose. You’ll really have to learn throttle control.

3dog

iTrader: (1)

hey bit yeah the hockey rink thing sounds slick but back when i had a 95 camry with the 6 cyl. i put the blizzack WS50's on and i swear the conditions got just like a hockey rink several times and that car drove on that slick ice like it was dry roads. those tires on ice are mind boggling, the downside was that while i'm doing 50 in a 35 cars without those tires are lulled into thinking they can drive normally. i saw more than one spin out. i couldn't wait for ice conditions just so i could drive on ice. tire rack has lots of testimonials backing this up. we haven't had those conditions again since 1995 & 1996 winters. i probably should put a set on the 16" wheels i still have but i hate the looks of those wheels and in normal just dry & wet conditions my 17" michelin pilot sport a/s work great, actually better than the blizzack 's would. if i wait for a snow & ice forecast then its a pain to switch wheels the tire shops get swamped so i'd probably end up doing it myself. and of course they don't always hit the forecast right and we get the big surprise. cyberseano i don't have a torque converter but would like to get one what you say does concern me as it rains alot of days here in the winter and i don't want to be doing 180's but it sounds like if you leave the traction control on that eliminates the problem. so now i have another question does the vsc traction control interfer with the lsd or vice versa istill haven't heard from anyone who has driven on ice with an lsd there must be someone?

redgs4

Many 4x4 are outfitted with torsen style differentials and run into a similar problem. If one wheel is raised off the ground the other wheel gets ZERO power. In this situation the driver is advised to lightly apply the parking brake to provide resistance to the wheel in the air -- this then allows a transfer of power to the wheel on the ground.

I grew up in Fairbanks, Alaska, and spent many years driving in icy conditions. Of course I did not have anything close to a "nice" car back then. But I do recall many instances where road conditions were not consistent across both rear wheels, i.e.- driver side on black ice, passenger side on dry pavement. The Supra 3.76 will sit and spin under this circumstance unless you do the parking brake trick.

I think a clutch type LSD would be a better choice in a northern climate but even a torsen style will be a significant improvment over the open differential you have now. Your choice of tires are probably a bigger factor.

redgs4

And the cool thing [] is with a lot of gas you can do this on dry pavement, too!!! Getting used to driving with the LSD after spending so long with the open diff can be exciting to say the least.

3dog

iTrader: (1)

wow now that is one very valuable trick thank you for the tip. yes i think its going to be fun & different