CinFulxgs

+1 on the Spirit...

Hollywood

This is where u guys fail to understand. Jbrady stated that dynoing them would not be a part of his gig with these. He also said there may only be 1 run of production and thats it, so the disbalievers would loose out.

Jbrady is a technical guy, know exhauts systems well. He wanted a set of headers for his car. HE has offered the oppertunity to fellow members of CL, he is not making profit off them, he is spending his personal time making this happen for the ones interested. He has answered sooooo many questions, many of them being repetative questions too. He's been a real good sport about it.

Bottom line jbrady does not care about the sceptical people, he's gonna make headers for himself and others who are commited. The rest are on their own. Himself and others tried to explain to you guys the benifits. He gains nothing from trying to convince you guys. This is not a thread of CL spirit and Q and A on worthwhile mods. It's a thread to buy a set of headers off a guy who's getting some made.

The people who serously commited are people who undersatnd technical automotive knowledge and understand the advantages of a good set of headers without needing dyno #'s.

Here is some more header info for u guys who dont understand;

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question172.htm

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

bro chill please , this is a open forum

some of us are more mechanically inclined and tech savy them you may want to admit

so because headers may work for for some does mean it will work for all

the vvti tech that goes into the overall design of the 400 has a very delicate bal, relieving exaust flow can also mean relieving needed back pressure as it may have been intended to do

i rem a gs fi owner in atlanta last year tried to open up flow from his cats back to the exaust and actually lost the ability to boost properly and lost sign power from low and top end not to mention he said it sounded like a boat engine


i for one again applaud his efforts but still need to see the end result of this design

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

I would not want to disturb Japanese precision. I would not want to add anything to the engine that would require unbolting it.

Cannonbear

These headers will make power,there's no question on that. Remember back in the day when people would bolt on an exhaust and see no gains, then the majority would say that toyota perfected the engine so much that eeking out power was almost a futile attempt? Now that the manifolds have been shown for their weakness (those terrible ports) these new headers will without a doubt spread out the powerband and increase the hp. By how much is unknown. Those who are skeptical can opt out of the purchase. However these havent been slated for a production run outside of the inital run. It's a gamble, but one a lot of 1uz owners are willing to take.

CinFulxgs

I guess for now I will gamble and opt out then.

Hopefully these work out for those that are hoping for gains. Good to see a couple of individuals will be testing these for all to appreciate.

Wierd, if they are going to be so great why wouldn't there be a 2nd production run... at these increadible prices I would expect a bunch of owners to purchase once dyno's show the gains across the powerband.

Lexologist

Alright guys, ease up.

Like JBrady said, everything here is PURE speculation.

Lets ALL wait until:

1) The headers fit (w/o clearance issues on both sides of the block)
2) Minor adjustments have been made (if needed)
3) Fitment for each model is confirmed

These are the most important issues by far!!!

As far as Dyno,labor, pricing, rwtq, etc, everyone knows that these things will greatly vary.

I think everyone is exicited with anticipation and has a million and one questions to ask.

Just breathe, read the COMPLETE thread, wait a little longer, and ease up on good ole' JBrady before he turns a deaf ear.

Not to patronize, but Thanks JBrady. F'ing awesome job!

Hollywood

Not an exhaust problem. No exhaust is the best bro, look at drag cars, headers come out of the hoods, turbo drag compacts exhaust comes out the side bumber usually, including the GS400 drag car.

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

hollywood


please read and understand vvti tech, it is a very complex design by toyota that is very hard yo cheat

dr.g was the guy from atlanta who experimented and had some custom exaust work done to free up exaust flow hoping to realize more power as well as help the blower to boost easier, well it did not work , in fact it went the opposite direction and lost alot of power


the vvti head and ecu was tuned so precisly that putting more air in or less air out throws everything completely out of whack , in his case , the programming by toyota had exaust back pressures and mainfold pressures with certain parameters designed in mind , removing some of the restriction may or may not do what we thin k it will

race cars have a different design then street driven engines , cams heads fuel management all optimized for power only not street abiliity

JBrady

LFL, Hollywood does not appear to be answering with any sort of anger. His answer is almost completely accurate. The only missed point is that I will not be handling the sale at all. The list members will deal directly with the manufacturer.

As far as future runs go. There may well be additional runs. Minimum quantity is 20 sets. Someone will need to do a GP of some sort or the manufacturer may not get enough orders at a time to make the run. He may do single sets at a sizeable price increase, I don't know.

As far as "precision Japanese engineering" the stock manifolds qualify only from the perspective of emissions, noise and durability, definitely NOT performance.

As far as VVTi and the delicate balance, sorry, this is not a good argument. I have studied the VVTi timing charts and can say that backpressure is NOT part of the equation.

Modifying an engine does bring with it pros and cons. Large tube headers and or gutted catalytic converters and large diameter systems can certainly effect power and drivability in a negative way. That is why I specified tight 1.5" primary pipes. These manifolds should be an excellent compromise between maximum peak power and strong low/mid range and drivability. These headers should deliver nearly optimized peak power without compromizing elsewhere (considering the design goal of retaining the stock catalysts in the stock locations). I would be better to have used 304 or 321 stainless steel but the price would have increased nearly double. With the Jet Hot coating these should last much longer than most will own the cars.

On the subject of "marketing". It would be EASY to doctor a dyno sheet to show ANY power gain. Believe it or not many parts are sold this way. Heck Mazda and other manufactures have been caught lying about their engines power (Miata, RX8) How may of the aftermarket parts have independent dyno tests PRIOR to most purchasing the products? The real value is in design. If you design a part properly (like these) you have created the potential for more power from EVERY OTHER mod you do. Exhaust dynamics is not a manufacture specific phenomenon. Anyone that truly understands engines can study the pictures of the stock manifolds that I have posted and KNOW without question that they are reducing power.

For those that wish to wait... fine, wait, it just doesn't matter to me. All I ask is that people refrain from repetitively posting the same complaints. Once is plenty. I challenge anyone to point out a concern that I have not addressed. By continuing to repetitively post some people are (probably unwittingly / ignorantly) showing disrespect and condescension.

As has been stated MANY times, we cannot know the actual results until these have been installed and MULTIPLE dyno runs have been completed. This is due the fact that OBDII engines usually must adapt to changes before the true consistent effect is known. As a consideration the manufacturer was telling me that some of the Honda engines have pretty good exhaust manifolds from the factory and he is only seeing around 10% gain on those engines. Our manifolds are NOT good. A 5% gain on our engines will be about 12rwhp. 10% around 25rwhp. These are peak numbers and often midrange power can increase even more. In fact you could have an engine make ZERO additional peak power but in fact have midrange increases that make the car perform much better. Again, gains here are speculation BUT the stock manifolds are effectively restrictor pipes. If you restricted the stock pipes further would you expect a gain or a loss? (easy question yes). If you remove restriction then what? Another restriction is the throttle plate. Does openning the throttle increase power? (another easy question). This is real basic simple physics guys.

jgscott

iTrader: (1)

Hows that for Drama you ask ? A lot of post above to me. The answer to all that you just wrote is that you are uncertain. We that committed are eager and beleaving. The whole things sums up that you just need to wait and see what happens. Period. And trust me you will see. You guys ( and I am not picking on you ) keep saying the same thing over and over. It's like someone is hounding you to invest and pressureing you. The answere will not change until...... Nobody is bending anybodys arm to buy them. Period. I come here to see if we have progress and I'm sick of seeing this. Start your OWN new debate thread. Please don't write me another Book.

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

well
jbrady , i hear what you are saying , i have no problem in what you are saying although some point i disagree on but thats for another thread

my problem is some here are comparing bolting on a exaust system and spending 6oo+ dollars for little to no gain should be the same thing as doing this in terms of "who cares how and what the final resuslt is , they look great"

i dont buy a pig in the poe

we are talking about doing some modifications and possibly spending 10hrs+ of labor to find out exactly ????


thats my only point and question in this thread

i too have researched vvti and obdII tech quite abit and it will be intresteing to see the results


hell i am too am hoping for the best and i will buy in a heartbeat

so again brady , i give you a for doing this but dont be so defendsive against so others who want to see something more then just a credit card bill

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

this is my last post in this thread for i see its getting to agrumentative and appears to be also getting alittle to personal

Hollywood

So like I said it was not an exhaust problem. You already stated the problem above, it was a tuning problem.

Cannonbear

Well i know you wont post again but i have to say gains WILL be had here. The only question is how much and what RPM the hp will be at. The stock manifold is just too poorly designed for power. As complicated as VVTi is, BMW's VANOS system is just as complicated but i've heard of no problems putting headers/exhaust combo on 330's/m3's.

The only way these headers could disappoint is if they fell apart after a thousand miles. Obvious research has gone into these headers, they WILL make power. 10 people can post up 10 dynos, there will be an obvious variance in numbers but there WILL be an increase, even more so with those with intakes and catback exhausts.

Why would a basic bolt on setup (I/H/E) not make power on a 4 liter V8? Why the skepticism on an engine that is clearly being choked? When i had my S2000, the I/H/E setup could yield 15 or more so hp at redline and a noticable increase throughout the powerband, and that was a pretty high strung engine.

why wouldn't it apply to our engines?