PLP Supercharger
12-19-03, 12:49 PM
#16
Originally posted by KVA
Neo - did Mike at PLP try to get more psi out of the PowerDyne S/C? or is it maxed out at 7? Do you think that adding an intercooler would add any significant performance gains to this setup?
Neo - did Mike at PLP try to get more psi out of the PowerDyne S/C? or is it maxed out at 7? Do you think that adding an intercooler would add any significant performance gains to this setup?
Originally posted by jmecbr900
As for potential: You really should look at it from the perspective of what YOU are going to eventually do. In other words, just because the charger can go up to 20 psi it does not mean that YOU will take it up to 20 psi. Even if you do want 20 psi, you will have to plan for substantial upgrades to atleast the fuel system if not the engine too. So, if you're not prepared to drop another chunk of change to get there....why bother? If you're only gonna run what the system is designed to do, stay there. Spend the money on other upgrades for your car like some kind of fuel management to properly tune the system, gauges, injectors, etc.
As for potential: You really should look at it from the perspective of what YOU are going to eventually do. In other words, just because the charger can go up to 20 psi it does not mean that YOU will take it up to 20 psi. Even if you do want 20 psi, you will have to plan for substantial upgrades to atleast the fuel system if not the engine too. So, if you're not prepared to drop another chunk of change to get there....why bother? If you're only gonna run what the system is designed to do, stay there. Spend the money on other upgrades for your car like some kind of fuel management to properly tune the system, gauges, injectors, etc.
But then again, this is what I said when I started with just the L-Tuned S/S.
Last edited by Neo; 12-19-03 at 02:07 PM.
12-19-03, 12:54 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by jmecbr900
I'm with Jon on this.
The intercooler does add power by cooling the charge substantially. You will experience pressure drop with the intercooler and how much depends on the efficiency of the intercooler used. I have a Spearco piece which seems to do it's job just fine. I'm not sure how much pressure drop there is on mine though. I would guess about a lb which to me is negligeable because the gains from the cooler charge outweigh the pressure drop two fold.
As for the install, I can tell you from experience that there is no direct bolt on that is going to be installed like you guys are thinking. In other words, easy plug and play. As Jon stated, you will probably have to cut and custom fit any intercooler on the GS's. On mine, we had to cut part of the bumper support in order to make it fit properly. It's definetly not a job for the shade tree mechanic to do properly. It's not rocket science, but it takes some skill to do right.
As for potential: You really should look at it from the perspective of what YOU are going to eventually do. In other words, just because the charger can go up to 20 psi it does not mean that YOU will take it up to 20 psi. Even if you do want 20 psi, you will have to plan for substantial upgrades to atleast the fuel system if not the engine too. So, if you're not prepared to drop another chunk of change to get there....why bother? If you're only gonna run what the system is designed to do, stay there. Spend the money on other upgrades for your car like some kind of fuel management to properly tune the system, gauges, injectors, etc.
On the other hand, if you're planning on building a monster....well, absolutely you should spend the extra money for the system which can get you there w/o upgrades.
For those that don't already know: Every F/I setup is going to require more than what comes in the box. How much is usually up to you, but that is also going to limit your output power. So you have to settle the balance between budget and performance. Life sucks that way don't it?????
I'm with Jon on this.
The intercooler does add power by cooling the charge substantially. You will experience pressure drop with the intercooler and how much depends on the efficiency of the intercooler used. I have a Spearco piece which seems to do it's job just fine. I'm not sure how much pressure drop there is on mine though. I would guess about a lb which to me is negligeable because the gains from the cooler charge outweigh the pressure drop two fold.
As for the install, I can tell you from experience that there is no direct bolt on that is going to be installed like you guys are thinking. In other words, easy plug and play. As Jon stated, you will probably have to cut and custom fit any intercooler on the GS's. On mine, we had to cut part of the bumper support in order to make it fit properly. It's definetly not a job for the shade tree mechanic to do properly. It's not rocket science, but it takes some skill to do right.
As for potential: You really should look at it from the perspective of what YOU are going to eventually do. In other words, just because the charger can go up to 20 psi it does not mean that YOU will take it up to 20 psi. Even if you do want 20 psi, you will have to plan for substantial upgrades to atleast the fuel system if not the engine too. So, if you're not prepared to drop another chunk of change to get there....why bother? If you're only gonna run what the system is designed to do, stay there. Spend the money on other upgrades for your car like some kind of fuel management to properly tune the system, gauges, injectors, etc.
On the other hand, if you're planning on building a monster....well, absolutely you should spend the extra money for the system which can get you there w/o upgrades.
For those that don't already know: Every F/I setup is going to require more than what comes in the box. How much is usually up to you, but that is also going to limit your output power. So you have to settle the balance between budget and performance. Life sucks that way don't it?????
Thanks.
12-19-03, 02:09 PM
#18
Originally posted by jmecbr900
I was going the same route when I bought mine in January of this year. I was looking at the 300's with the idea that eventually I would go F/I with it. Ended up getting the 400 anyway and F/Iing that.
Can you guys put up a link to the PLP chargers you're talking about?
BTW, a S/C may be bolt-on but believe me it's far from simple. It is better than the install on a turbo though, so I guess you're right.
I was going the same route when I bought mine in January of this year. I was looking at the 300's with the idea that eventually I would go F/I with it. Ended up getting the 400 anyway and F/Iing that.
Can you guys put up a link to the PLP chargers you're talking about?
BTW, a S/C may be bolt-on but believe me it's far from simple. It is better than the install on a turbo though, so I guess you're right.
12-19-03, 02:39 PM
#19
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Okay thanks for all the feedback. Learning alot.
Potential, cool I am aware and comfortable with the extra spending to get it rght and I am happy that their is potential for future power upgrades.
About the intercooler question I got that info form a Blitz rep. Wasn't sure if its right, just what he told me. Maybe he ment with F/I the intercoolr wouldn;t do anything. Would it be wise to buy a WIN front bumper for the intercooler? Also other than fuel management what other potions are you guys refering to when you say more potential. I wouldn't run it at full PSI what ever it is, but would like to know what options are available. Keep the good feedback coming.
Potential, cool I am aware and comfortable with the extra spending to get it rght and I am happy that their is potential for future power upgrades.
About the intercooler question I got that info form a Blitz rep. Wasn't sure if its right, just what he told me. Maybe he ment with F/I the intercoolr wouldn;t do anything. Would it be wise to buy a WIN front bumper for the intercooler? Also other than fuel management what other potions are you guys refering to when you say more potential. I wouldn't run it at full PSI what ever it is, but would like to know what options are available. Keep the good feedback coming.
Last edited by APLUS; 12-19-03 at 02:48 PM.
12-19-03, 06:15 PM
#20
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This is a very good thread, you F/I guys are the best!
APLUS- to be honest I did not do much research on the 300 GS, BUT I was cross shopping SCs so I did some turbo research, to give a good example of what Jaime is talking about, lets use the Dave H kit for SCs:
The kit costs about 3500 bucks (puts about 340rwhp on the low end) but you need to buy:
Manifold
I/C
I/C piping
Engine Management
Exhaust
Blow off valve
gauges
etc etc
Like I said, I'm not pro, but i'm just illustrating jmcbr's point. Going in you would say, "oh great 340rwhp for just 3500 bucks, BUT you would add 5-700 for engine management, 800-1200 for exhaust, etc etc etc. I think a SC member spent about 5200 out the DOOR for a Dave H kit uninstalled.
I'm not tryting to make an exact science, so please dont use my numbers as gospel, just want to help ya out man!
APLUS- to be honest I did not do much research on the 300 GS, BUT I was cross shopping SCs so I did some turbo research, to give a good example of what Jaime is talking about, lets use the Dave H kit for SCs:
The kit costs about 3500 bucks (puts about 340rwhp on the low end) but you need to buy:
Manifold
I/C
I/C piping
Engine Management
Exhaust
Blow off valve
gauges
etc etc
Like I said, I'm not pro, but i'm just illustrating jmcbr's point. Going in you would say, "oh great 340rwhp for just 3500 bucks, BUT you would add 5-700 for engine management, 800-1200 for exhaust, etc etc etc. I think a SC member spent about 5200 out the DOOR for a Dave H kit uninstalled.
I'm not tryting to make an exact science, so please dont use my numbers as gospel, just want to help ya out man!
12-19-03, 06:17 PM
#21
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Originally posted by KVA
I crave for more power, but at that cost, it would be easier to just sell the GS300 and buy a GS400...and you get to keep most of your mods :-)
I crave for more power, but at that cost, it would be easier to just sell the GS300 and buy a GS400...and you get to keep most of your mods :-)
Plus the one thing about the car you already have is you KNOW that car!! Every little squeak, noise and burnt out bulb
12-19-03, 09:18 PM
#22
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
There doesn't seem to be alot of "internals" available for this car, what there might not be any, but where about to find out from these gurus here. ALSO is there a Moderator that can some how link this to the IS forum because most of those guys I don't believe travel to this side much and I believe some of them have the PLP SC. Might be able to give some feedback on the product and "extras" they needed to buy.
Anyway I posted earlier of other performance mods I wanted and to my car and to my surprise (not really surprised I knew I was missing things that I needed) you guys are letting me know there will be others items I need and I like to fully know what I am getting my self into before I just start buying things.
Here is what I was thinking of purchasing.
1. Apexi cat back exhaust
2. XERD stainless steel headers
3. XERD stainless steel race pipe
4. PLP air intake
5. Torque converter
6. Denso Iridium spark plugs
7. Intercooler
And now for things that I have missed (please upadte my list as I want to know enerything I should get and expect to by in the future)
1. Fuel management system
2. Ignition (MSD,etc...)
3. Oh well so much for a list time for the experts to step in.
Come on guys, help me. As for the mods I am doing to the car, I will let you guys in on a little secret. In Feb. I am getting a business loan to open my Custom Auto Boutique here in Detroit, MI., A-Plus Motoring. Think CEC Wheels but smaller opertion. I am using the GS for a show vehicle for the showroom and also show customers what is possible to do. It is a full csuotm shop (not wheel/tire shop) that isn't here in MI but pretty much every where else. I have every thing in place, business connects, shop location, equiptment, business plan, managment team, CPA, Lawyer, etc...
Alot of the times a play the role of a lamen on this board and ask real general questions to get feedback from you guys. I know not one person is the "Almighty Guru on Tuning" so I never pretend I no more than the next guy. Some times experience is best not just book knowledge. When the loan is finalized (need it for yearly lease of shop and customization for the GS) I will try to become an approved vendor here on Cl. I will mostly concentrate on Lexus ( because of have/love them) and really promise a true auto boutique geared to high end luxury vehicles that represents a certain lifestyle.
Anyway back to the topic. This SC. Oh yeah why I didn't go turbo. Yes I know more potential but I want to do something different. I haven't come across a GS300 member 2nd. gen. with a SC.
Forgot also won't to get trans cooler and oil cooler.
Anyway I posted earlier of other performance mods I wanted and to my car and to my surprise (not really surprised I knew I was missing things that I needed) you guys are letting me know there will be others items I need and I like to fully know what I am getting my self into before I just start buying things.
Here is what I was thinking of purchasing.
1. Apexi cat back exhaust
2. XERD stainless steel headers
3. XERD stainless steel race pipe
4. PLP air intake
5. Torque converter
6. Denso Iridium spark plugs
7. Intercooler
And now for things that I have missed (please upadte my list as I want to know enerything I should get and expect to by in the future)
1. Fuel management system
2. Ignition (MSD,etc...)
3. Oh well so much for a list time for the experts to step in.
Come on guys, help me. As for the mods I am doing to the car, I will let you guys in on a little secret. In Feb. I am getting a business loan to open my Custom Auto Boutique here in Detroit, MI., A-Plus Motoring. Think CEC Wheels but smaller opertion. I am using the GS for a show vehicle for the showroom and also show customers what is possible to do. It is a full csuotm shop (not wheel/tire shop) that isn't here in MI but pretty much every where else. I have every thing in place, business connects, shop location, equiptment, business plan, managment team, CPA, Lawyer, etc...
Alot of the times a play the role of a lamen on this board and ask real general questions to get feedback from you guys. I know not one person is the "Almighty Guru on Tuning" so I never pretend I no more than the next guy. Some times experience is best not just book knowledge. When the loan is finalized (need it for yearly lease of shop and customization for the GS) I will try to become an approved vendor here on Cl. I will mostly concentrate on Lexus ( because of have/love them) and really promise a true auto boutique geared to high end luxury vehicles that represents a certain lifestyle.
Anyway back to the topic. This SC. Oh yeah why I didn't go turbo. Yes I know more potential but I want to do something different. I haven't come across a GS300 member 2nd. gen. with a SC.
Forgot also won't to get trans cooler and oil cooler.
Last edited by APLUS; 12-19-03 at 10:02 PM.
12-19-03, 10:27 PM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
Alright guys, here's my initial take on the kit mentioned:
I'm actually impressed with the amount of equipment that comes in the kit. I'm mostly impressed with the fact that it includes the Emanage management system. It is a very good and costly piece by itself. The charger itself is a usually reliable Powerdyne unit. I'm not too up to speed on that particular unit, but it seems just as good as any. I'm not so sure about the self-contained lubricating system. I've heard of similar units and really haven't heard anything negative so far. If it does work as advertised, it seems to be a very low maintainance unit which is good. I'm also impressed with the price. For what it includes, it's fair. Not super bargain, but not a rip off either.
The negative: no intercooler, no bigger injectors. The intercooler makes a big difference in overall performance of the system. The injectors, IMO, go a long way towards making the system both higher performing and safer. True, adding bigger injectors have caused a few of us some headaches because the factory ecu is freaked out by them, but if you are running a "custom" mapped ecu as they advertise it should not be too difficult to make it work with bigger injectors instead of a single additional one.
Overall, it's not a bad start at all. Just don't think that you will get it out and install it in the 8 hours they're quoting unless you've done it before. It is, compared to others I've seen, pretty complete except for the aforementioned items. However, when you factor in the additional cost of an intercooler, possibly bigger injectors X 6, additional labor costs for install, gauges, etc. you can probably expect to pay as much as $2-3k. It still not a terrible deal. Most F/I systems end up costing between $5-10k to play and after additional items you can end up with more than that.
I'm actually impressed with the amount of equipment that comes in the kit. I'm mostly impressed with the fact that it includes the Emanage management system. It is a very good and costly piece by itself. The charger itself is a usually reliable Powerdyne unit. I'm not too up to speed on that particular unit, but it seems just as good as any. I'm not so sure about the self-contained lubricating system. I've heard of similar units and really haven't heard anything negative so far. If it does work as advertised, it seems to be a very low maintainance unit which is good. I'm also impressed with the price. For what it includes, it's fair. Not super bargain, but not a rip off either.
The negative: no intercooler, no bigger injectors. The intercooler makes a big difference in overall performance of the system. The injectors, IMO, go a long way towards making the system both higher performing and safer. True, adding bigger injectors have caused a few of us some headaches because the factory ecu is freaked out by them, but if you are running a "custom" mapped ecu as they advertise it should not be too difficult to make it work with bigger injectors instead of a single additional one.
Overall, it's not a bad start at all. Just don't think that you will get it out and install it in the 8 hours they're quoting unless you've done it before. It is, compared to others I've seen, pretty complete except for the aforementioned items. However, when you factor in the additional cost of an intercooler, possibly bigger injectors X 6, additional labor costs for install, gauges, etc. you can probably expect to pay as much as $2-3k. It still not a terrible deal. Most F/I systems end up costing between $5-10k to play and after additional items you can end up with more than that.
12-19-03, 10:30 PM
#24
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Last time i emailed Mike, he said he was going to release the Vortech kits at a later date. But the answer Aplus got was that it wasn't going to happen. I hope Mike hasn't changed his mind about the Vortech kits for the GS 3. The Vortech is # 2 on my list of forced induction options.
Have you upgraded the rest of your car (suspension and brakes)?
You won't need to buy #4(plp air intake) and #6(denso plugs) because they already come with the kit. On # 2(xerd) and #3(xerd) they won't fit with the PLP kit. But you can buy the Toyomoto headers and racepipe which do fit.
On the fuel management side, the kit comes with a Greddy E manage, so you can scratch that off your list, you just need to find someone to tune it.
While your at it, might as well buy a LSD too. With the numbers you are shooting for, you won't need to upgrade the internals. You should also look into the various boost gauges as well.
You should go to IS300.net and browse the GO FAST section. Those guys have been there , done that.
Also, talk to Mike, he will set you up perfectly. Just tell him what you need and what are your goals.
The kit doesn't come with bigger injectors, but it does come with another injector to make it 7. An additional injector is just as good as adding bigger injectors.
Mike has done the R&D to design a complete kit to run safely.
Have you upgraded the rest of your car (suspension and brakes)?
You won't need to buy #4(plp air intake) and #6(denso plugs) because they already come with the kit. On # 2(xerd) and #3(xerd) they won't fit with the PLP kit. But you can buy the Toyomoto headers and racepipe which do fit.
On the fuel management side, the kit comes with a Greddy E manage, so you can scratch that off your list, you just need to find someone to tune it.
While your at it, might as well buy a LSD too. With the numbers you are shooting for, you won't need to upgrade the internals. You should also look into the various boost gauges as well.
You should go to IS300.net and browse the GO FAST section. Those guys have been there , done that.
Also, talk to Mike, he will set you up perfectly. Just tell him what you need and what are your goals.
The kit doesn't come with bigger injectors, but it does come with another injector to make it 7. An additional injector is just as good as adding bigger injectors.
Mike has done the R&D to design a complete kit to run safely.
Last edited by 1niceride; 12-19-03 at 10:33 PM.
12-19-03, 10:52 PM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
Originally posted by 1niceride
The kit doesn't come with bigger injectors, but it does come with another injector to make it 7. An additional injector is just as good as adding bigger injectors.
The kit doesn't come with bigger injectors, but it does come with another injector to make it 7. An additional injector is just as good as adding bigger injectors.
1 injector plus 6 stockers are NOT as good as 6 custom made bigger ones. The single injector, in theory, adds the additional fuel needed only during boost. Fine, except for one thing....it is trying to deliver fuel to six cylinders via the intake tract (similar to how a nitrous system works BTW) instead of the manifold directly down into the cylinder. This means that the rear cylinder(s) are in danger of running lean due to fuel starvation. They may have done the R&D but I personally would not put my trust on a $50 injector protecting a $3k engine. Additionally, which do you think is easier to turn up the boost on? 1 injector or 6? The single injector designed for low boost levels will quickly reach it's maximum duty cycle wayyyy before 6 custom ones.
I totally agree with everything else though.
12-19-03, 11:10 PM
#26
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
You won't need to buy #4(plp air intake) and #6(denso plugs) because they already come with the kit. On # 2(xerd) and #3(xerd) they won't fit with the PLP kit. But you can buy the Toyomoto headers and racepipe which do fit.
Okay guess I will scratch #4 and #6 off my list. Toyomoto you say? cool. What about injectors? do you recommend any brands?
As for the Greddy ECU you think Mike at PLP could program it? I am going to call him again but it sounds like you have talked to him alot and your pretty knowledgable about this.
Okay guess I will scratch #4 and #6 off my list. Toyomoto you say? cool. What about injectors? do you recommend any brands?
As for the Greddy ECU you think Mike at PLP could program it? I am going to call him again but it sounds like you have talked to him alot and your pretty knowledgable about this.
12-20-03, 02:24 PM
#27
Guys, the Vortech kit will not happen for the GS300..at least not any time soon! I've talked to Mike several times and had some of my No. Cali buddies talk to him too... I do believe Steve Ganz has e-mailed Mike a few times in the last couple of months regarding the PLP Super Chargers. Steve told me he is now carrying a few of the S.C. in his parts dept. Anyway, at the PLP meet earlier this year I offered to give up my car so Mike can do the custom piping for the intercooler and stuff. He declined saying he would rather buy a used GS and work on it when he had time. Basically, us GS owners are stuck with the Powerdyne unit if we decide to go PLP. I've been holding out for some time now waiting for the okay from Turbonetics...
The pics below are from the SEMA show this year. Steve Ganz, Myself, and Manaray talked to some of the guys over at Turbonetics and they are in the process of working on tuning the ECU and the piping for the IS/GS. Should be available sometime in mid Jan... Turbonetics is only 15 mins from me so after the holidays I will be paying a visit to them...Hopefully everything works out...
BTW: RWHP is expected to be around 310-340. Boost anywhere from 7-10psi according to their guys.
The pics below are from the SEMA show this year. Steve Ganz, Myself, and Manaray talked to some of the guys over at Turbonetics and they are in the process of working on tuning the ECU and the piping for the IS/GS. Should be available sometime in mid Jan... Turbonetics is only 15 mins from me so after the holidays I will be paying a visit to them...Hopefully everything works out...
BTW: RWHP is expected to be around 310-340. Boost anywhere from 7-10psi according to their guys.
Last edited by LXOGOOD; 12-20-03 at 02:33 PM.