400 rebuild/up grades/suggestions
09-24-04, 03:42 PM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
400 rebuild/up grades/suggestions
I am building another GS400 engine from ground up for my car. We are doing research into modifications that can be done.
1. We would like to look at installing larger pistons, maybe look at crank, rods, etc.
2. We are looking at street porting, heads are being ck for flow before and after.
3. Balanced and Blue Printed.
4. Match up and clean up intake if needed.
Installed into a car with new SLD, TC, Cold Air Intake, Cats included exhaust back, these mods will be done after installing new engine, except the Cold Air Intake.
Car will be dyno turned before install, after each stage and tested at track at different stages.
The idea, and this is just enjoyable investigation, is to do some simple modifications, for end results to share.
Also not affect the normal operations of this vehicle.
I have been consulting with TRD, Millen Racing, reviewing everything I can get ahold of.
This car currently has near 100,000 miles, get no less than 24 MPGs in town and 28-29 HWY.
Has cold air intake system, runs 14.7 quarter at 2,500 above sea level, uses no oil. 0-60 6 sec
Does anyone have any suggestions they would like to share?
Thank you in advance.
Tim
1. We would like to look at installing larger pistons, maybe look at crank, rods, etc.
2. We are looking at street porting, heads are being ck for flow before and after.
3. Balanced and Blue Printed.
4. Match up and clean up intake if needed.
Installed into a car with new SLD, TC, Cold Air Intake, Cats included exhaust back, these mods will be done after installing new engine, except the Cold Air Intake.
Car will be dyno turned before install, after each stage and tested at track at different stages.
The idea, and this is just enjoyable investigation, is to do some simple modifications, for end results to share.
Also not affect the normal operations of this vehicle.
I have been consulting with TRD, Millen Racing, reviewing everything I can get ahold of.
This car currently has near 100,000 miles, get no less than 24 MPGs in town and 28-29 HWY.
Has cold air intake system, runs 14.7 quarter at 2,500 above sea level, uses no oil. 0-60 6 sec
Does anyone have any suggestions they would like to share?
Thank you in advance.
Tim
09-24-04, 08:01 PM
#2
The idea, and this is just enjoyable investigation, is to do some simple modifications, for end results to share
You might want to start with contacting a few of the companies that produce the items, rather than the ones that sell them.
Crower, Cunningham, etc, etc for the rods
Ross, JE, etc, etc for the pistons
If you do the head work, are you planning on changing the valve train? If so, you might have some backlash on the idle of the car.
I wish I could find some cams for this engine......
Last edited by TTurboPimp; 09-24-04 at 08:01 PM.
09-25-04, 04:32 AM
#3
EV ftw!!!
Originally posted by TTurboPimp
Well, for starters, the parts you are talking about are going to be a VERY expensive "enjoyable investigation for simple mods". There is nothing simple about any of those mods mentioned, although you do have options. I know from personal experience that none of the internal mods for the GS are off the shelf items, which means you will not get off the shelf pricing on them either. THey are all special order, made to spec....long waiting period, and expensive as hell.
You might want to start with contacting a few of the companies that produce the items, rather than the ones that sell them.
Crower, Cunningham, etc, etc for the rods
Ross, JE, etc, etc for the pistons
If you do the head work, are you planning on changing the valve train? If so, you might have some backlash on the idle of the car.
I wish I could find some cams for this engine......
Well, for starters, the parts you are talking about are going to be a VERY expensive "enjoyable investigation for simple mods". There is nothing simple about any of those mods mentioned, although you do have options. I know from personal experience that none of the internal mods for the GS are off the shelf items, which means you will not get off the shelf pricing on them either. THey are all special order, made to spec....long waiting period, and expensive as hell.
You might want to start with contacting a few of the companies that produce the items, rather than the ones that sell them.
Crower, Cunningham, etc, etc for the rods
Ross, JE, etc, etc for the pistons
If you do the head work, are you planning on changing the valve train? If so, you might have some backlash on the idle of the car.
I wish I could find some cams for this engine......
Maybe this is a hint of what kind of mods you are doing to your car and that would explain some hints you have dropped here and there such as - the mods taking forever, very expensive etc..........
09-25-04, 03:15 PM
#5
I'm not sure ab out the availabilliity problem anymore for engine parts. I have recently been told by my shop guys that rods pistons and other internals are now available. We have been talking about the next set up HP upgrades and what it will take to get me where I want to be, thats what sparked our conversation. I'll try to get a company name next time I talk to them.
09-25-04, 04:10 PM
#6
Rookie
Thread Starter
available parts
Hi Fellas,
Don't know if you'll might remember about selling cars in the US. Models have to have a certain amount of inventory on hand before they can be sold. This is the 1UZFE engine, used worldwide.
I am just going to find out how some simple mods can possibly help. Word is that Lexus spend a billion on design of the car and engine. Not much else you can do, but we will find out. HP and TQ is excellent already for the CIDs, hard to improve on. Just about every part of this design top notch.
PS. My business is designing and developing products for major corporations. We have developed in the automotive field in the past. You never know what old country boys can come up with. At the end of the day, worst case, we will have a really fine engine. Have done this before with success. Hopefully we will learn something that will help everybody else.
Best,
Tim
Don't know if you'll might remember about selling cars in the US. Models have to have a certain amount of inventory on hand before they can be sold. This is the 1UZFE engine, used worldwide.
I am just going to find out how some simple mods can possibly help. Word is that Lexus spend a billion on design of the car and engine. Not much else you can do, but we will find out. HP and TQ is excellent already for the CIDs, hard to improve on. Just about every part of this design top notch.
PS. My business is designing and developing products for major corporations. We have developed in the automotive field in the past. You never know what old country boys can come up with. At the end of the day, worst case, we will have a really fine engine. Have done this before with success. Hopefully we will learn something that will help everybody else.
Best,
Tim
09-25-04, 04:18 PM
#7
Re: available parts
Originally posted by La400
Hi Fellas,
Not much else you can do, but we will find out. HP and TQ is excellent already for the CIDs, hard to improve on. Just about every part of this design top notch.
PS. My business is designing and developing products for major corporations. We have developed in the automotive field in the past. You never know what old country boys can come up with. At the end of the day, worst case, we will have a really fine engine. Have done this before with success. Hopefully we will learn something that will help everybody else.
Best,
Tim
Hi Fellas,
Not much else you can do, but we will find out. HP and TQ is excellent already for the CIDs, hard to improve on. Just about every part of this design top notch.
PS. My business is designing and developing products for major corporations. We have developed in the automotive field in the past. You never know what old country boys can come up with. At the end of the day, worst case, we will have a really fine engine. Have done this before with success. Hopefully we will learn something that will help everybody else.
Best,
Tim
Trending Topics
09-26-04, 04:23 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
Re: Re: available parts
Originally posted by morris
It may be okay but the M3 and M5 is and has been kicking lexus all over the place in terms of performance, granted they are slightly different in terms of personality BMW is definitely more sporty, but I dont see how they cant get more than 300 hp out of a 4.3 liter engine.
It may be okay but the M3 and M5 is and has been kicking lexus all over the place in terms of performance, granted they are slightly different in terms of personality BMW is definitely more sporty, but I dont see how they cant get more than 300 hp out of a 4.3 liter engine.
09-26-04, 07:06 PM
#9
Lexus Champion
Re: 400 rebuild/up grades/suggestions
Hello tim
1. If you want large pistons, why don't we use the 430 parts? The crank in this engine is extremely strong.
2. The head might need some work. But power gain is very minimum
3. Balanced and blue printed? What kind of rpm are you planning to take it up to?
All of this work and the gain be around 50whp. I would talk to a cam company and they will make you a custom set. Do you have access to bench flow test? If you do that would be great. Good luck Tim.
JPI
1. If you want large pistons, why don't we use the 430 parts? The crank in this engine is extremely strong.
2. The head might need some work. But power gain is very minimum
3. Balanced and blue printed? What kind of rpm are you planning to take it up to?
All of this work and the gain be around 50whp. I would talk to a cam company and they will make you a custom set. Do you have access to bench flow test? If you do that would be great. Good luck Tim.
JPI
[i]Originally posted by La400 [/i
I am building another GS400 engine from ground up for my car. We are doing research into modifications that can be done.
1. We would like to look at installing larger pistons, maybe look at crank, rods, etc.
2. We are looking at street porting, heads are being ck for flow before and after.
3. Balanced and Blue Printed.
4. Match up and clean up intake if needed.
Installed into a car with new SLD, TC, Cold Air Intake, Cats included exhaust back, these mods will be done after installing new engine, except the Cold Air Intake.
Car will be dyno turned before install, after each stage and tested at track at different stages.
The idea, and this is just enjoyable investigation, is to do some simple modifications, for end results to share.
Also not affect the normal operations of this vehicle.
I have been consulting with TRD, Millen Racing, reviewing everything I can get ahold of.
This car currently has near 100,000 miles, get no less than 24 MPGs in town and 28-29 HWY.
Has cold air intake system, runs 14.7 quarter at 2,500 above sea level, uses no oil. 0-60 6 sec
Does anyone have any suggestions they would like to share?
Thank you in advance.
Tim
I am building another GS400 engine from ground up for my car. We are doing research into modifications that can be done.
1. We would like to look at installing larger pistons, maybe look at crank, rods, etc.
2. We are looking at street porting, heads are being ck for flow before and after.
3. Balanced and Blue Printed.
4. Match up and clean up intake if needed.
Installed into a car with new SLD, TC, Cold Air Intake, Cats included exhaust back, these mods will be done after installing new engine, except the Cold Air Intake.
Car will be dyno turned before install, after each stage and tested at track at different stages.
The idea, and this is just enjoyable investigation, is to do some simple modifications, for end results to share.
Also not affect the normal operations of this vehicle.
I have been consulting with TRD, Millen Racing, reviewing everything I can get ahold of.
This car currently has near 100,000 miles, get no less than 24 MPGs in town and 28-29 HWY.
Has cold air intake system, runs 14.7 quarter at 2,500 above sea level, uses no oil. 0-60 6 sec
Does anyone have any suggestions they would like to share?
Thank you in advance.
Tim
09-26-04, 07:27 PM
#11
Lexus Champion
Originally posted by morris
Now I know you arent trying tp put me into a postion to tout BMW's are you.
I am very happy with my GS but the fact is that the stock M3
Never mind..............
Now I know you arent trying tp put me into a postion to tout BMW's are you.
I am very happy with my GS but the fact is that the stock M3
Never mind..............
JPI
09-27-04, 05:35 AM
#12
Rookie
Thread Starter
buildup
Hi JPI,
That is exactly what I was looking into. Yes, we have everything that is needed to do all that is needed. The first 70 GS400 engine even the pistons were balanced from what I read.
Balanced and Blueprinted is standard for me, would not go any other way. Raced NHRA for many years and never had a major engine problem if you do it right. This was in the 70's, did a whole lot of street racing and really enjoyed it when they think they have you beat and just smoke'em with your sleeper. The key is get what you have to the ground and going forward. With the right combo set up, front to rear, it can become quite respectable. I am used to winning.
I kinda thought that I might be able to pull additional 50 HP overall and some more torque.
Cams will be kinda sticky, these current cams have a lot of overlap, designed that way to reduce emissions, it works. We can only slightly add lift to adjust new flow, not quite sure of how much yet.
The objective is to set right in without changing engine mangement systems, nor effect over daily driving of car. I am in hope that the computer will adjust for fuel and air flow when it senses the changes, maybe not, we will see. If not I have some friends down at SuperChip that will do the computer for me. It is just a guess, but I think the computer will pick it up. Also not to change emissions if possible by much and MPGs. I know I am asking a lot, but I used to run big block Pontiacs, street driven daily, street trim, 70 series tires, 13.0 1/4, with 18 MPG on the hwy, and 14-15 around town, pump gas. This car went to the drags every weekend and ran, won every weekend. Car weight was 3,900 lb.
I have an old 1972 mercedes with factory balanced and blue printed 213 CID putting out 230 HP, still original engine and still runs great. Car is way to heavy, 4,700 lb there about. It runs best above 4,000 rpm and loves it. Took it on a trip, drove straight for 900 plus miles in the 4,500 to 4,800 rpm range the whole 900 plus miles and the car just loved it. It is a factory 4 speed auto with 3:36 rear. 14" wheels, with fuel stops and food I still averaged over 71 MPH. I thought I was either going to break it or make it.
The only draw back is the fact the engine can not produce enough torque for my needs, but I will make do. Torque is what puts you down the road. I was always amazed about the 327/375HP corvette, bone stock I have seen those cars run in the low 13 and high 12, granted their weight was around 3000 lb if I remember correctly.
Stock on these engines is a 1.23 HP per a CID, we will be pushing it move it up to 1.44 range. At 350 HP, should be plenty if properly combined with trans, suspension and rear end. I am looking to bring it down to mid 13s 1/4.
My engine is in Fla. Hope it is still there now, after this last hit down there.
Little note: From what I have read, the BMW M5 engine was designed off of the Lexus 400 engine. Only what I have read. I have run a M3 with my car and just pulled right past the M3, I also ran a 325I with my old mercedes and smoked him bad.
I am a US Patent writer, holder and inventor of new products. I have been told by engineers in the past that it could not be done, at the end of the day 3M purchased my product because I did not listen to the engineers. 3M has 8000 engineers on board. Sometimes it just takes a fresh approach at looking at things just a little different. 20 years later, my products are still being used in the markets and I still pump out new developments. Closed minds never get anywhere. Listen and learn, none of us have all the answers. I remain open to concepts.
"Security is an illusion. LIfe is a daring adventure or it is nothing at all" Helen Keller
"Genius is nothing more than uncommon common sense" Albert E.
Thank you for your advice. At the end of the day I will have maybe 5,000 in the engine. To me that is far better than 7,500 for a supercharger and all the issues attached with a supercharges. NOS is out, you only get about 100 shots, before your engine is due for a overhaul. I make a engine to last if possible. I tend to drive'em hard. I have personally gone over 161 on the street in the past, before they put you in jail for that, smoking a turbo Porsche, not by much, only 2 car lenghts, that is close. We both had fun in that run.
Best,
Tim
That is exactly what I was looking into. Yes, we have everything that is needed to do all that is needed. The first 70 GS400 engine even the pistons were balanced from what I read.
Balanced and Blueprinted is standard for me, would not go any other way. Raced NHRA for many years and never had a major engine problem if you do it right. This was in the 70's, did a whole lot of street racing and really enjoyed it when they think they have you beat and just smoke'em with your sleeper. The key is get what you have to the ground and going forward. With the right combo set up, front to rear, it can become quite respectable. I am used to winning.
I kinda thought that I might be able to pull additional 50 HP overall and some more torque.
Cams will be kinda sticky, these current cams have a lot of overlap, designed that way to reduce emissions, it works. We can only slightly add lift to adjust new flow, not quite sure of how much yet.
The objective is to set right in without changing engine mangement systems, nor effect over daily driving of car. I am in hope that the computer will adjust for fuel and air flow when it senses the changes, maybe not, we will see. If not I have some friends down at SuperChip that will do the computer for me. It is just a guess, but I think the computer will pick it up. Also not to change emissions if possible by much and MPGs. I know I am asking a lot, but I used to run big block Pontiacs, street driven daily, street trim, 70 series tires, 13.0 1/4, with 18 MPG on the hwy, and 14-15 around town, pump gas. This car went to the drags every weekend and ran, won every weekend. Car weight was 3,900 lb.
I have an old 1972 mercedes with factory balanced and blue printed 213 CID putting out 230 HP, still original engine and still runs great. Car is way to heavy, 4,700 lb there about. It runs best above 4,000 rpm and loves it. Took it on a trip, drove straight for 900 plus miles in the 4,500 to 4,800 rpm range the whole 900 plus miles and the car just loved it. It is a factory 4 speed auto with 3:36 rear. 14" wheels, with fuel stops and food I still averaged over 71 MPH. I thought I was either going to break it or make it.
The only draw back is the fact the engine can not produce enough torque for my needs, but I will make do. Torque is what puts you down the road. I was always amazed about the 327/375HP corvette, bone stock I have seen those cars run in the low 13 and high 12, granted their weight was around 3000 lb if I remember correctly.
Stock on these engines is a 1.23 HP per a CID, we will be pushing it move it up to 1.44 range. At 350 HP, should be plenty if properly combined with trans, suspension and rear end. I am looking to bring it down to mid 13s 1/4.
My engine is in Fla. Hope it is still there now, after this last hit down there.
Little note: From what I have read, the BMW M5 engine was designed off of the Lexus 400 engine. Only what I have read. I have run a M3 with my car and just pulled right past the M3, I also ran a 325I with my old mercedes and smoked him bad.
I am a US Patent writer, holder and inventor of new products. I have been told by engineers in the past that it could not be done, at the end of the day 3M purchased my product because I did not listen to the engineers. 3M has 8000 engineers on board. Sometimes it just takes a fresh approach at looking at things just a little different. 20 years later, my products are still being used in the markets and I still pump out new developments. Closed minds never get anywhere. Listen and learn, none of us have all the answers. I remain open to concepts.
"Security is an illusion. LIfe is a daring adventure or it is nothing at all" Helen Keller
"Genius is nothing more than uncommon common sense" Albert E.
Thank you for your advice. At the end of the day I will have maybe 5,000 in the engine. To me that is far better than 7,500 for a supercharger and all the issues attached with a supercharges. NOS is out, you only get about 100 shots, before your engine is due for a overhaul. I make a engine to last if possible. I tend to drive'em hard. I have personally gone over 161 on the street in the past, before they put you in jail for that, smoking a turbo Porsche, not by much, only 2 car lenghts, that is close. We both had fun in that run.
Best,
Tim
09-27-04, 10:19 AM
#13
Lexus Champion
BMW WHINER
Originally posted by morris
Now I know you arent trying tp put me into a postion to tout BMW's are you.
I am very happy with my GS but the fact is that the stock M3
Never mind..............
Now I know you arent trying tp put me into a postion to tout BMW's are you.
I am very happy with my GS but the fact is that the stock M3
Never mind..............
I didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch. (seems pretty easy to do) But one of the main reasons this forum exists is for education, positive reinforcement, help fellow Lexus owners. The whining you incured on this forum doesn't do anybody, including yourself or any BMW owners, any good. Constructive criticism is welcome. As long as it is exactly that. I've been a BMW fan long before I even had a chance to drive a Lexus/Toyota. I will go out of my way to show my respect for them. But if you feel your being put in a position to whine/tout BMWs. Then go do it on their forum. Not here.
09-27-04, 10:28 AM
#14
Lexus Champion
BMW WHINER
Originally posted by morris
Now I know you arent trying tp put me into a postion to tout BMW's are you.
I am very happy with my GS but the fact is that the stock M3
Never mind..............
Now I know you arent trying tp put me into a postion to tout BMW's are you.
I am very happy with my GS but the fact is that the stock M3
Never mind..............
I didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch. (seems pretty easy to do) But one of the main reasons this forum exists is for education, positive reinforcement, help fellow Lexus owners. The whining you incured on this forum doesn't do anybody, including yourself or any BMW owners, any good. Constructive criticism is welcome. As long as it is exactly that. I've been a BMW fan long before I even had a chance to drive a Lexus/Toyota. I will go out of my way to show my respect for them. But if you feel your being put in a position to whine/tout BMWs. Then go do it on their forum. Not here.
09-27-04, 12:01 PM
#15
Re: BMW WHINER
Originally posted by TAMR_GUS98
Morris,
I didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch. (seems pretty easy to do) But one of the main reasons this forum exists is for education, positive reinforcement, help fellow Lexus owners. The whining you incured on this forum doesn't do anybody, including yourself or any BMW owners, any good. Constructive criticism is welcome. As long as it is exactly that. I've been a BMW fan long before I even had a chance to drive a Lexus/Toyota. I will go out of my way to show my respect for them. But if you feel your being put in a position to whine/tout BMWs. Then go do it on their forum. Not here.
Morris,
I didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch. (seems pretty easy to do) But one of the main reasons this forum exists is for education, positive reinforcement, help fellow Lexus owners. The whining you incured on this forum doesn't do anybody, including yourself or any BMW owners, any good. Constructive criticism is welcome. As long as it is exactly that. I've been a BMW fan long before I even had a chance to drive a Lexus/Toyota. I will go out of my way to show my respect for them. But if you feel your being put in a position to whine/tout BMWs. Then go do it on their forum. Not here.
I dont feel as though I incurred "(recieved)" whining from anyone, CL should be a no whine zone as far as I am concerned.
If you are referring to my decision not to finish my thoughts about the BMW, well sometimes I find it is better to just leave some things unsaid or undebated. I realize that I simply will not win some arguments with some people, regardless of the supporting evidence and the facts.
So in closing I certainly do not have any hard feelings and I certainly didnt mean to hurt anyones feelings, so hopefully all is good.