So you want to go FI?
03-14-06, 07:53 AM
#1
So you want to go FI?
So you want to go FI
By Morris Smith
Okay so your tired of reading about all the seven hundred horsepower Supras and the six hundred horsepower Civics are really embarrassing the mess out of you on I85. You’ve saved up your pennies and the left over money from your student loan now you’re ready to go for it. But wait, before you pull the trigger and buy that turbo or supercharger kit that is on sale for a low, low price, do you know what the real cost is going to be? Believe me its not going to be the thirty five hundred that was listed on the website. Even more than identifying the “hidden” costs, are you aware of the long term costs that are associated with Forced Induction? If this is your first entry into forced induction, you probably don’t and if you do you are probably telling yourself yea but that’s not going to happen to me, that happens to the other guy, or my personal favorite, I’m only going to go for X amount of horsepower and I know my engine can handle that. Oh you poor foolish soul.
Let me help you to start adding up the costs that are quickly going to rear its ugly head. When you add HP you have to consider the following things are going to be needed at some point, some sooner than others. On top of that you will need to factor in the labor to install all of this stuff. Find out if these items are included in the total install price you have. Bigger injectors, exhaust work, coilovers, sway bars, chassis bracing, clutch or torque converter, transmission cooler, differential, wider tires, bigger rims, stronger brakes, engine management, gauges, wideband O2 sensor, turbo timer and I almost forgot dyno time and then you have to pay for tuning as well. On top of all of that you have to consider that your transmission isn’t going to last very long at all, so you will need to factor in a race built transmission and then what happens if you blow your motor? Don’t get me wrong you can get away with your stock motor if you exercise restraint and don’t get crazy with the boost, but anyone that has boost will tell you that it is addictive. I don’t know anyone who started with 5 pounds of boost and then didn’t want to move up from there. So now you may have to consider either “building” your motor from the start or being prepared to replace it if it blows somewhere down the road.
My point here is not to dissuade you from going the route of FI, but I think we all need to have a realistic idea of the actual costs before we have the car in pieces at some tuner shop. As you can see that four thousand dollar turbo kit can rapidly break the 10 thousand dollar ceiling. So either you need to take up a family collection and gather some more cash or at least come up with a plan to purchase all of the items you are going to need in a planned timeline. You don’t want to be caught with your car up on blocks for months because you blew the transmission and didn’t have the 3 thousand dollars saved up for a replacement.
By Morris Smith
Okay so your tired of reading about all the seven hundred horsepower Supras and the six hundred horsepower Civics are really embarrassing the mess out of you on I85. You’ve saved up your pennies and the left over money from your student loan now you’re ready to go for it. But wait, before you pull the trigger and buy that turbo or supercharger kit that is on sale for a low, low price, do you know what the real cost is going to be? Believe me its not going to be the thirty five hundred that was listed on the website. Even more than identifying the “hidden” costs, are you aware of the long term costs that are associated with Forced Induction? If this is your first entry into forced induction, you probably don’t and if you do you are probably telling yourself yea but that’s not going to happen to me, that happens to the other guy, or my personal favorite, I’m only going to go for X amount of horsepower and I know my engine can handle that. Oh you poor foolish soul.
Let me help you to start adding up the costs that are quickly going to rear its ugly head. When you add HP you have to consider the following things are going to be needed at some point, some sooner than others. On top of that you will need to factor in the labor to install all of this stuff. Find out if these items are included in the total install price you have. Bigger injectors, exhaust work, coilovers, sway bars, chassis bracing, clutch or torque converter, transmission cooler, differential, wider tires, bigger rims, stronger brakes, engine management, gauges, wideband O2 sensor, turbo timer and I almost forgot dyno time and then you have to pay for tuning as well. On top of all of that you have to consider that your transmission isn’t going to last very long at all, so you will need to factor in a race built transmission and then what happens if you blow your motor? Don’t get me wrong you can get away with your stock motor if you exercise restraint and don’t get crazy with the boost, but anyone that has boost will tell you that it is addictive. I don’t know anyone who started with 5 pounds of boost and then didn’t want to move up from there. So now you may have to consider either “building” your motor from the start or being prepared to replace it if it blows somewhere down the road.
My point here is not to dissuade you from going the route of FI, but I think we all need to have a realistic idea of the actual costs before we have the car in pieces at some tuner shop. As you can see that four thousand dollar turbo kit can rapidly break the 10 thousand dollar ceiling. So either you need to take up a family collection and gather some more cash or at least come up with a plan to purchase all of the items you are going to need in a planned timeline. You don’t want to be caught with your car up on blocks for months because you blew the transmission and didn’t have the 3 thousand dollars saved up for a replacement.
Last edited by morris; 04-10-06 at 08:29 PM.
03-14-06, 08:03 AM
#2
Amen brother.
Not to mention fouling plugs, VB upgrades, better quality and more quarts of oil, constant upgrading, the fuel management battle....
It seems that with the SC300 you can get away with a realistic $4000 FI upgrade. Realistically, for the GS400 I believe you will spend an absolute minimum of $7500. This does not factor in replacements like Morris mentioned. If you blow a tranny or motor, then look more like $11,000.
Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention... ( Sorry, got carried away with Frankie!!
).
In short, there are 2 certainties.
1. You will want more horespower everytime you meet your goals.
2. If you are like me, you have broken your budget at this stage and you can't afford anymore horsepower.
Jonny
Not to mention fouling plugs, VB upgrades, better quality and more quarts of oil, constant upgrading, the fuel management battle....
It seems that with the SC300 you can get away with a realistic $4000 FI upgrade. Realistically, for the GS400 I believe you will spend an absolute minimum of $7500. This does not factor in replacements like Morris mentioned. If you blow a tranny or motor, then look more like $11,000.
Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention... ( Sorry, got carried away with Frankie!!
).In short, there are 2 certainties.
1. You will want more horespower everytime you meet your goals.
2. If you are like me, you have broken your budget at this stage and you can't afford anymore horsepower.
Jonny
03-14-06, 08:18 AM
#3
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Thats why when my bracket shows up, which I believe is today... Mines up for sale! being in California and having all the crack downs on Modded cars as well as getting maybe 390hp it just doesnt seem worth the money to me. I have all the goodies known to put on the GS minus either Turbo or FI and I am very happy with its performance. Plus here where I live, there isnt anywhere to open up the FI without jeopardizing your or someone elses life. The freeways and roads here in Cali make it more like fighting for Pole position on a race course.
Maybe this way of thinking is just coming with my OLD age
Maybe this way of thinking is just coming with my OLD age
Last edited by tkracing; 03-14-06 at 09:45 AM.
03-14-06, 09:29 AM
#6
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Wow, that was great Morris!
I was contemplating going FI but I was not certain which would be best SC or Turbo and I was use to the Civics that I have had with Turbo's and engine swaps. Now with the Lexus, I am a lot more reserved since it is not a Tuner car like my Honda that is sitting in my driveway collecting dust (Still looks nice.). I swore to my wife that I would not go ballistic on the Lexus and she told me if I did, she would probably boobie trap my car to blow up, this way I will have to put it in the gargage and not dump any more money into it like the civic. Long story and she will do it....if you know my wife she means business when she says stuff like that.
Bottom line is this, those including myself are always watching movies and drifting vids or reading a thread on how someone now has 600hp in a GS stomping the ground like a pitbull looking for trouble and you are now looking at bank statements saying "I am almost there...." find themselves getting pumped up due to the hype and adreline that is now running thru your body, saying "I want that!". As Morris said many of us are pulled in by the ads saying you can FI your car for only $3999, so now you spring for the kit and then all of a sudden you are thinking to yourself that now I can take a weekend or have some shop do the install, only to realize when you get to that cool shop that is really excited to help you pull all of this off starts to ask you about the many small more expensive things you need in order to maintain that beast that you are dreaming about in two weeks, is now pulling you down due to the more expense that you will endure in the next two weeks. I wish to those that do proceed with FI, have a plan and not to indulge in impulse and buy that turbo or SC kit just to have it sit in your gargage or bedroom waiting to be installed with in the next year or two due to the many other smaller things that you will need.
I have been a big believer that preventative maintanance to your car and your foot are key. I know I probably dropped off the deep end with this topic but I thought I would give my 2 cents worth.
Good luck to those that have the FI and those who are still contimplating on going FI (
Me.) but laws are changing and the price for speed is a never ending chase to be the quickest on the block.
Best of luck to everyone!
Revhard191
I was contemplating going FI but I was not certain which would be best SC or Turbo and I was use to the Civics that I have had with Turbo's and engine swaps. Now with the Lexus, I am a lot more reserved since it is not a Tuner car like my Honda that is sitting in my driveway collecting dust (Still looks nice.). I swore to my wife that I would not go ballistic on the Lexus and she told me if I did, she would probably boobie trap my car to blow up, this way I will have to put it in the gargage and not dump any more money into it like the civic.
Long story and she will do it....if you know my wife she means business when she says stuff like that.Bottom line is this, those including myself are always watching movies and drifting vids or reading a thread on how someone now has 600hp in a GS stomping the ground like a pitbull looking for trouble and you are now looking at bank statements saying "I am almost there...." find themselves getting pumped up due to the hype and adreline that is now running thru your body, saying "I want that!". As Morris said many of us are pulled in by the ads saying you can FI your car for only $3999, so now you spring for the kit and then all of a sudden you are thinking to yourself that now I can take a weekend or have some shop do the install, only to realize when you get to that cool shop that is really excited to help you pull all of this off starts to ask you about the many small more expensive things you need in order to maintain that beast that you are dreaming about in two weeks, is now pulling you down due to the more expense that you will endure in the next two weeks. I wish to those that do proceed with FI, have a plan and not to indulge in impulse and buy that turbo or SC kit just to have it sit in your gargage or bedroom waiting to be installed with in the next year or two due to the many other smaller things that you will need.
I have been a big believer that preventative maintanance to your car and your foot are key. I know I probably dropped off the deep end with this topic but I thought I would give my 2 cents worth.
Good luck to those that have the FI and those who are still contimplating on going FI (
Me.) but laws are changing and the price for speed is a never ending chase to be the quickest on the block.Best of luck to everyone!
Revhard191
03-14-06, 10:04 AM
#7
nice write up Morris
I will be looking to FI my car some time next year(RMM SC)...the GS4 is a very powerful car ....Im one that cannot afford to dump all kinds of money in to my GS ...but I do want FI and am not looking for Crazy amounts of HP.... I want a safe amount of HP ....what would be the max amount of HP possible w/ the RMM SC kit w/o having the danger of Blowing motor and trans ..this is my daily driver ....what amount of $$$ am I looking at ..so that I can start saving
I will be looking to FI my car some time next year(RMM SC)...the GS4 is a very powerful car ....Im one that cannot afford to dump all kinds of money in to my GS ...but I do want FI and am not looking for Crazy amounts of HP.... I want a safe amount of HP ....what would be the max amount of HP possible w/ the RMM SC kit w/o having the danger of Blowing motor and trans ..this is my daily driver ....what amount of $$$ am I looking at ..so that I can start saving
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03-14-06, 10:08 AM
#8
Damnit...guess I need to change my wallpaper....Pic of a S/C GS300 engine bay. 
but there is a good point morris stated...PLAN PLAN PLAN....and research other forums on FI to note what other mods are required to have a reliable vehicle once you go this route, reason being...there are not many FI GS's on this board and the general knowledge from other vehicles can apply to some of our situations.
but there is a good point morris stated...PLAN PLAN PLAN....and research other forums on FI to note what other mods are required to have a reliable vehicle once you go this route, reason being...there are not many FI GS's on this board and the general knowledge from other vehicles can apply to some of our situations.
Last edited by sockfocks; 03-14-06 at 10:13 AM.
03-14-06, 10:23 AM
#9
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Great little write up, true most people dont know what it really cost . Thats why i favor the aristo swap dollar for dollar. Not bashing a turbo kit but its just a kit on a NA motor.
03-14-06, 10:25 AM
#10
Originally Posted by LEXISM
nice write up Morris
I will be looking to FI my car some time next year(RMM SC)...the GS4 is a very powerful car ....Im one that cannot afford to dump all kinds of money in to my GS ...but I do want FI and am not looking for Crazy amounts of HP.... I want a safe amount of HP ....what would be the max amount of HP possible w/ the RMM SC kit w/o having the danger of Blowing motor and trans ..this is my daily driver ....what amount of $$$ am I looking at ..so that I can start saving
I will be looking to FI my car some time next year(RMM SC)...the GS4 is a very powerful car ....Im one that cannot afford to dump all kinds of money in to my GS ...but I do want FI and am not looking for Crazy amounts of HP.... I want a safe amount of HP ....what would be the max amount of HP possible w/ the RMM SC kit w/o having the danger of Blowing motor and trans ..this is my daily driver ....what amount of $$$ am I looking at ..so that I can start saving
Originally Posted by MORRIS
"or my personal favorite, I’m only going to go for X amount of horsepower and I know my engine can handle that. Oh you poor foolish sole. "
On the serious side, I think the GS400 can handle 325-390 okay. Mine didnt but I had over 200K miles on mine and over time 389hp did it in.
Dave is stock engine and tranny I think and has been running fine with his setup.
If I were looking for ultimate reliabillity with the RMM I would say stay with the 3.12 pulley and you wil be okay. Go smaller to the 2.87 and you may have to deal with belt slippage issues and then possibly engine and tranny issues over time, remember ymmv
03-14-06, 10:47 AM
#11
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LEXISM
Im one that cannot afford to dump all kinds of money in to my GS ...but I do want FI and am not looking for Crazy amounts of HP.... I want a safe amount of HP ....what would be the max amount of HP possible w/ the RMM SC kit w/o having the danger of Blowing motor and trans ..this is my daily driver
Im one that cannot afford to dump all kinds of money in to my GS ...but I do want FI and am not looking for Crazy amounts of HP.... I want a safe amount of HP ....what would be the max amount of HP possible w/ the RMM SC kit w/o having the danger of Blowing motor and trans ..this is my daily driver
None the less, I would love to have a SC kit or Turbo kit to put on my car, but like LEXISM said, this is my daily stomper, and if she goes, I will have to resort to chev-ro-legs or worst, public trans if I plan to keep working.
I have read many threads and everyone has different amount of $$$ that they have put into their SC or better yet their Turbo kit....What would a good number or goal be for someone looking to SC theirs cars right. I am talking about kit, gauges, Intercooler, Dyno tuning and misc stuff. I am looking for reality numbers if you could.
Again, great write up Morris.
Cheers,
Revhard191
03-14-06, 12:14 PM
#12
Originally Posted by Revhard191
I have read many threads and everyone has different amount of $$$ that they have put into their SC or better yet their Turbo kit....What would a good number or goal be for someone looking to SC theirs cars right. I am talking about kit, gauges, Intercooler, Dyno tuning and misc stuff. I am looking for reality numbers if you could.
Again, great write up Morris.
Cheers,
Revhard191
Jonny
03-14-06, 12:29 PM
#13
THe round number I had in minde was 10K
4500-5K for the RMM kit 1K for the install
Torque converter and install 1K
SAFC, SAFC INSTALL AND DYNO TUNING 1K
INJECTORS IF YOU DONT GET THEM WITH THE KIT 500-700
Wideband, boost gage and install 500
optional
LSD
BBK
VAlve body
more gages
Electronic boost controller
Fuel pump
The folks that did my Turbo charge abouyt the same thing for a custom turbo kit for the GS, the turbo is a better value in my opinion because if you want to turn up the hp later on you can. Wtiht the SC you are definitely limited. I am running 17psi today, there is no way I could have done that iwth the RMM SC.
When I first started I never imagined I would want that much hp but its true once you get a taste you wind up wanting more.
My car was my daily driver also, but iwth the down time I had from other problems I bought a 91 Civic hatchback for 1200, it gets 30mpg on 89 octane my lexus gets what 8mpg on 93 octane? So the civic wound up saving me money... as long as I drive it that is.
4500-5K for the RMM kit 1K for the install
Torque converter and install 1K
SAFC, SAFC INSTALL AND DYNO TUNING 1K
INJECTORS IF YOU DONT GET THEM WITH THE KIT 500-700
Wideband, boost gage and install 500
optional
LSD
BBK
VAlve body
more gages
Electronic boost controller
Fuel pump
The folks that did my Turbo charge abouyt the same thing for a custom turbo kit for the GS, the turbo is a better value in my opinion because if you want to turn up the hp later on you can. Wtiht the SC you are definitely limited. I am running 17psi today, there is no way I could have done that iwth the RMM SC.
When I first started I never imagined I would want that much hp but its true once you get a taste you wind up wanting more.
My car was my daily driver also, but iwth the down time I had from other problems I bought a 91 Civic hatchback for 1200, it gets 30mpg on 89 octane my lexus gets what 8mpg on 93 octane? So the civic wound up saving me money... as long as I drive it that is.
