El Captain

Im In the market to buy both of these units and i need to know whats good and what works together the best? Its for my 1st gen with a 1JZGTE VVTI swap! I herd that it would be very benificial to my power & MPG! right now it runs great but i think it might be a bit rich?

Carguy34

Put a wideband on it, but don't buy an AFC. I had a Zeitronix wideband for a couple of years. It worked well and the logging software was ok, but the display sucked. The display was too slow to respond. The logs were great, so if you just want something that you can log without having a display, that would be a good unit. I currently have an Innovate LC-1 with XD-16 display. It is a great display, but doesn't do any logging without an additional component. If you want something with a display, the Innovate is the best on the market IMO. I checked out the AEM too and didn't care for it at all. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

fstrnldr

I'll second the innovate products ... i've sold more than a few, and use my personal one all the time, never had a problem. I would look for something a bit newer/better than the AFC to tune your 1JZ though.

morris

iTrader: (2)

Aem uego has been working fine for me.

Kharizma

iTrader: (6)

what's an AEM Uego? Standalone system? how much is that?

fstrnldr

Uego is AEM's wideband set up.

El Captain

But i need something to controll the air and fuel also! What should i get Apex'i has a few units that i was looking at! Thats what i wanted to know was what works well together! I wanted a system to tune and lean out my motor a bit!And do i have to get get dyno tuned also?
Why dont i want a AFC?
And I was looking at all the wideband systems and the innovate looked the best i like there web site alot!

morris

iTrader: (2)

they are two separate units. It really is a matter of personal preference. As far as I know there really isnt anything that makes one wideband a better option for the APEX safc over another.

The SAFC makes the changes and the wideband is just the gage that tells you what the effect was. Any of them will tell you what the resulting AFR is.

The Dyno tune, I will leave to someone else to answer I have my own ideas on the subject.

On second thought lyou know what I have a right to my opinion

Dynot tuniing is a matter of personal preferece. Yes it would be fine to dyno tune esecially if the cars owner doesnt have experience tuning a SAFC or street tuning in general. Safety also is a good reason to dyno tune vs street tune.

I have not had my car dyno tuned since I became familiar and comfortable with how to street tune. In fact I Just won a dyno contest this past weekend without ever tuning the current setup on the dyno.

Would I like to fine tune the setup with some dyno time? sure I would. Am I willing to pay for the Dyno time right now? no. I have dialed it in pretty well with the street tune and the dyno tune for me, would be a safe way to dial it in a bit better but it certainly isnt required.

thats my 2 cents.

Dx3

iTrader: (13)

Word - I used it to and like it alot. takes all of 30 seconds to install, apart from the bung obviously

Jonny

Carguy34

Do you know how rich you are running right now? How much fuel do you want to pull out (or add)? Until you can answer those questions you have no reason to own an AFC. AFR's are easy to talk about and say 'I cruise at 14.7 but I run 13.0 at 0 psi, then ease down to 12.5 at 10 psi' but that is far from the whole picture. In order to be safe you need to control timing! Running lean can kill a motor, running rich will rob power, I understand both those things, but timing will effect power, fuel economy and (you guessed it) AFR readings. I personally think that AFC's are junk since they can't control any aspect of timing. The only time that an AFC is worth while is if you have some other piggyback way to control spark. By that point you now have two piggy back systems trying to change values when you would have been better off in the first place to get a standalone computer. Maybe this in a narrow minded view point since I do my own work and never pay anyone to work on my vehicles. But, the question was posed, so you got my thoughts.

My suggestion would be to get a wideband that you like and install it. Drive around a little bit and watch the gauge or make some datalogs. Review the info and find out how off you AFR's really are from what you expected. If your a little rich, leave it alone and realize that someone with an AFC may be able to get 1 MPG better than you and that you just saved a few hundred bucks by not buying an AFC. Also note, the stock computer should be going into closed loop during cruising anyway, so you will only be effecting part throttle fuel values. If your AFR's are way off figure out why. Are your injectors bad, pump going out, fuel pressure set wrong, etc. Only after you have figured out what's going on for sure do you want to start making changes. You asked a good question, be sure to let us know what you decide (and why). Good luck.

El Captain

Alright i was a t my freinds shop yesterday installing my HKS EVC 5 boost controll and my type1 turbo timer and we were all talking about widebands and SAFC's ! And I think it would be just wise to go with a wide band first and find out whats going on with my car ! I really apriciate all your input and opinions! I am learning alot and hope to be able to know all this for my self soon! Im pretty sure im either going to get the Inovate motorsports wide band unit! But they do have tons of units perminent or removable! Or the AEM unit !

fstrnldr

Biggest things i have against the AFC: one is lack of ability, its fuel only which is only part of the equation for tuning a car for more power. Ignition timing control is very key to getting good power and reliability out of an engine.

Two is the method in which it works. It is a MAF/MAP signal manipulation device. Now you think your running rich right? (and you probabbly are toyota is pretty good about leaving the tune on the extreme safe side of life) So this means you would lean it out w/ the install of the AFC, now the problem comes in that the AFC will take the MAF/MAP signal and reduce it to achieve less fuel, and yes that will work, however, when you do this the computer is seeing less air coming in and moving to a part of its preprogrammed map that almost always will have more timing advance as well since its seeing less load on the engine. Leaner a/f + more timing advance is not usually good on a boosted car! The original blue emanage had the same problem, but you could at least compensate w/ the ignition map, the new ultimate has switch to a post ECU fuel manipulation so the MAF/MAP signal is never touched (unless you want to). There are a ton of A/F controllers out there, just research how they work and the possible side effects before you throw out the money for it.

El Captain

This is all a kick in the pants and completely differnt from what some of the pepole in the 1st gen forum have told me and what they have done! First Off your right it would be such a waist to dump money on a device that i dont need and so im just in ahh right now and dont know what to do! This is the first time i even herd of a AFC ! It sounds like the very best system would be a Stand alone system but them do i need a wideband still! And wich one do i go with?

morris

iTrader: (2)

Dude do this by the wideband or get the afr checked on the Dyno. Once you know for sure then you can decide if you need or want fuel management.

While timing is an issue with some setups and cars, I know for a fact that timing control is not required for the GS400 and there are quite a few guys running GS300 with turbo setups and dont need timing control.

The Lexus computer seems to pull plenty of timing, it really isnt a problem. For instance my turbo gs400 pulls up to 20 degrees of timing.

From the sound of it you are NA so timing is not likely to be an issue for you. If you are standalone you definitely do not need a standalone.

Also you can hook up a computer and actually see how much advance or retard is actually happening as it pertains to timing. This way you can see for yourself if it is an issue.

El Captain

i kinda nervous about the wireing on my car when they swapped the motor they used the Chaser ECU but they had to splice some of the lexus wiring to get all the luxuries back into the car! Bells & Wistles . So there might be an issue and there might not be! Now i just have to find a reliable shop in Las Vegas! What unit should i get the AEM wide band or the Inovate wide band!
Inovate makes the handheld portable one and they make there perminate one?