kevs98GS4

iTrader: (1)

Just a small update from little 'ol me

Had the headers on my previous car for approx. 6K miles. I had them pulled and reinstalled on my newer GS. They've been on this one for 3 months and 2K miles. No cracks! I inspected them before reinstalling them on the second car and they still looked new! My shop said that the way I drive if there was going to be a problem there would have been by now! I give them a huge ! Love the performance! Excelent mod!

GSing430

Finally i was able to get the headers out, i wasted the whole day yesterday starring at how i was gonna get the headers out, and today i finally got it out in about 1hr 30mins. now i just need to get it welded.

Radical350

After Replacing the Drivers-side header last weekend 6-7-08, and discovering that the passenger side header has cracked for the second time...

$2000 later, I went back to stock mannis today 6-14-08.

I am not happy with the quality of the S&S SC430 Headers.
The size of the crack is rediculous.

JBrady

That is unfortunate. What batch was your headers from? On some cars I have heard that the Y pipe is a tight fit. This if present would place stress on the headers and lead to failure regardless of batch. Any specifics would be helpful.

Also, if you welded yours or had them welded the welding process tends to tempur the metal around the weld making it brittle. Building crack free headers is NOT easy. Stock manifolds crack on many cars. Again, details if you have time to add.

Radical350

Forgive me for being bitter but...

That $uck$!

It would have been helpful to know this before I went through HEADER-HELL.

Weather or not it was a fitment issue, here is the result of the third failure.

The crack goes almost all the way around the tube.


I did not have them welded. S&S was kind enough to replace both of them.
Now with the third failure, I will pursue a refund of the initial purchase price from S&S.
All the labor expense is in the wind.

This is not about money!!!
I like the mod. I want the mod.
I demand integrity in all aspects of the mod.
The worst part is I no longer have the mod.

JBrady

Ok, not certain of the direction of your frustration. Although I was strongly involved in bringing the headers to the Lexus market I am NOT an employee of S&S, I get NO compensation from sales or any support. I try to give whatever advice I can when I can but obviously cannot give advice when I do not know about a problem.

I posted my comments regarding the stock SC430 Y pipe fitment to your above post based on my "memory" of Pearlpower's excellent post on his install and subsequent crack and repair. I just went back to re-read Pearlpowers original thread and found these posts regarding this potential problem:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=45
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=55

Here is your post on your install on that same thread
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=55

No mention of the Y pipe missalignment that Lee (Pearlpower) mentions.

Things of this nature are so hard to predict. Factory manifolds (all manufacturers) have HUGE development costs and testing and still often crack.

Wow, very odd failure point. Possibly a stress crack is created by the mandrel bender clamp point??? Just guessing but still a weird problem.

I cannot remember which specific threads I have made specific recommendations but I have spoke to the cracking issue (in this thread and others) and postulated that more than one possible situations exist.

Y pipe fitment. As mentioned above, any stress placed on the parts from "pulling" or "stretching" parts (in this case a Y pipe) will induce a load that will eventually cause SOMETHING to fail. Be it a gasket, bolt, flange, weld point or tube. Lexus does NOT use any flex connections in the exhaust (other makes often due such as the Infiniti Q45) to reduce any stress. IF a mismatch is encountered on installation it SHOULD be fixed. Fixing includes rebending a part OR cutting and rewelding pipe with the option of adding a flex joint.

Now, considering that S&S ONLY had a set of 1998-2000 GS400 manifolds and heat shields as a basis for designing and creating these parts (with my imput during prototype design) it is surprising at how WELL these fit not only that model but MULTIPLE Lexus models and years.

Another concern would be the soft engine mounts used by Lexus that do seem to need frequent replacement. Soft mounts allow engine motion which would cause stress even if all parts were perfectly aligned. I have suggested that it may make sense to install flex joints as a precaution. This is only an observation and is not a guarantee of problem abatement.

Anyway, sorry to see your problem. Sorry you have given up. Modding is definitely a compromise to OEM factory rock solid engineering. NO and I repeat NO aftermarket manufacturer has the engineering, development or monetary capability that the OEM has on stock parts. Exhaust is especially difficult due to heat, vibration and weathering.

c0wboy

I was with Billy when the crack was discovered and suffice it to say that it was a bad day from there on in. Billy's crack is indeed at a very odd spot, and this leads me to my next questions. What material are his manifolds made of, and also more importantly, what gauge is the parent material?

Maybe being from the Supra world I'm a little spoiled, but I have a 60 lb GT47 88mm perched on a turbo manifold w/ solid [no flex] sections all the way to the tail. There's no cracking since the build completion in late '04 ot when the motor was pulled from the car in late '06, and that motor was run every day. Why can't these headers perform the same ie. no cracks for an NA motor?

Eric

Radical350

Jbrady,
I do greatly appreciate your contributions to our Mods and our community.

My frustration was based on the perception that the 2002 model year SC430 had a Y-pipe that was potentially incompatible with the S&S Header, and that I missed this tidbit of info while researching the Mod prior to installation.

My bad, I thought your original comment stated that the model year 2002 y-pipe was potentially incompatible.

Am I now to understand that the potential Y-pipe incompatibility is with all SC430's?

I have to agree with Cowboy. The strength in the design is questionable.

Could I be so unlucky that the pipe, not the weld cracked three times? Not just a little crack... a ridiculously large crack.

I think not. I am convinced it is related to poor quality. I have seen it with my own two eyes.

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

Would have to agree, though this mod does offer substantial hp and tq numbers, the lack of overall service response on their part and the quality of the part remains in question. Yes, some had realtively quick turn arounds it seems but that appears to be the exception. Also, nobody should have to make excuses for headers cracking. They either fit properly (as advertised) or they do not. Would like to hear from those with the gen two series to chime in on the quality of those units.

On my SC the headers actually did fit the y-pipe. It was a little tight and it did drop the overall exhaust system down a ways to the point where I was getting too much scrapping over bumps,etc.. I received 2 breaks on mine (series 1). Both in different spots, on the same header (right side) and welded by myself.

Also concerning is the fact that they still advertise the same exact part number for versions which are known to have fitment issues such as the SC400.

This is from their website.
1 ½” to 1 ¾” Tri-Y (High Heat Silver Ceramic Coated) 90-06 GS / LS / SC 400 / 430

Also, does anyone with a Series II GS know if this even fits that car?

sam430

iTrader: (10)

I'm getting mine installed on 2gs 01+
I would hate to have to replace the headers if it cracks. I'm bringing this from the dead since it's only a few months ago.

JBrady

I created a thread to respond to this thread back on 9-25-08

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...nt-design.html

I have NOT heard of any cracked CURRENT generation headers from S&S. They have additional welding and are .083" (14 gauge) wall thickness vs the original .065" (16 gauge) tubing.

I ask AGAIN has ANYONE had a crack appear on a CURRENT generation header?

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Sam430, the current generation headers have (AFAIK) been crack proof to date. You should be good to go.