Turbo
09-03-08, 11:48 AM
#31
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bleh then **** it. Suspension and visual mods it is.
I run a piggyback on my Honda right now, but that's a much simpler setup. One ECU and PCM. It does exactly like Gernby's does (checked his thread) and takes inputs off the wideband to keep my AFRs near the targets on my fuel map, but since it has to constantly re-adjust (the 01-05 Civics have a "learning" ECU as well), it can be a little erratic at times. I don't mind erratic on an engine that costs literally $400 to replace. Needless to say, things are a bit different with this car though.
I run a piggyback on my Honda right now, but that's a much simpler setup. One ECU and PCM. It does exactly like Gernby's does (checked his thread) and takes inputs off the wideband to keep my AFRs near the targets on my fuel map, but since it has to constantly re-adjust (the 01-05 Civics have a "learning" ECU as well), it can be a little erratic at times. I don't mind erratic on an engine that costs literally $400 to replace. Needless to say, things are a bit different with this car though.
hahaha and btw... i hope your 250 is STICK! lol
09-03-08, 06:01 PM
#34
Pit Crew
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: OH
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be honest, I don't believe it is.
The TOMs ecu, at risk of oversimplification, speaks japanese. All the other bunch of ECUs in your car do not. TOMs has many many years of experience programming toyota/lexus ECUs and yet even they tell you they can't do anything for you if you don't have a JDM car.
It's something people have wanted on US spec toyota/lexus cars for quite a few years now. This shop of yours would be world renowned if they somehow magically found a way to do what nobody else has in all that time.
Unless they're rebuilding the entire motor though hacking the ECU doesn't even help you much with a turbo. 12:1 compression is the reason you won't be able to run much boost. Even the full TOMs kit in japan only manages to go from 5 lbs to 5.8 lbs with FULL ecu reprogramming.
And it only manages -that- much by requiring 100 octane fuel.
As to a piggyback, nope, nothing to see there either.
There's no standalones that can run everything. A piggyback can't change anything but air/fuel ratio...and even then you'd need a complete self-tuning system like Gernby uses. And your gains would be pretty small. Folks have used SAFC type piggybacks on the 2IS for the track...you pick up 5-10 hp and that's about it.
You could richen the fuel mix for forced induction, but the stock ECU -already- does that. That's why you can run 5 lbs on the LMS kit without any changes to the stock ECU. The motor won't hold a lot more than that, even if you lie to the sensors at both ends and tell it to keep running richer.
Seriously, there's a -reason- nobody sells a turbo kit for the car, and the one US market supercharger kit isn't sold anymore.
I'd -love- to be wrong, but there's a lot of reasons that's unlikely here.
The TOMs ecu, at risk of oversimplification, speaks japanese. All the other bunch of ECUs in your car do not. TOMs has many many years of experience programming toyota/lexus ECUs and yet even they tell you they can't do anything for you if you don't have a JDM car.
It's something people have wanted on US spec toyota/lexus cars for quite a few years now. This shop of yours would be world renowned if they somehow magically found a way to do what nobody else has in all that time.
Unless they're rebuilding the entire motor though hacking the ECU doesn't even help you much with a turbo. 12:1 compression is the reason you won't be able to run much boost. Even the full TOMs kit in japan only manages to go from 5 lbs to 5.8 lbs with FULL ecu reprogramming.
And it only manages -that- much by requiring 100 octane fuel.
As to a piggyback, nope, nothing to see there either.
There's no standalones that can run everything. A piggyback can't change anything but air/fuel ratio...and even then you'd need a complete self-tuning system like Gernby uses. And your gains would be pretty small. Folks have used SAFC type piggybacks on the 2IS for the track...you pick up 5-10 hp and that's about it.
You could richen the fuel mix for forced induction, but the stock ECU -already- does that. That's why you can run 5 lbs on the LMS kit without any changes to the stock ECU. The motor won't hold a lot more than that, even if you lie to the sensors at both ends and tell it to keep running richer.
Seriously, there's a -reason- nobody sells a turbo kit for the car, and the one US market supercharger kit isn't sold anymore.
I'd -love- to be wrong, but there's a lot of reasons that's unlikely here.
09-03-08, 06:09 PM
#35
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Gents - watch the tone. There's no need for argument here. This thread will get a lock on it very quickly if the conversation strays from the subject.
09-03-08, 09:59 PM
#36
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
good news guys!!! it works!! my turbo works and tom's ecu works!! I could definitely feel the power. I am going to dyno my car tomorrow and take some pictures!!!. I am so happy. It actually works!! My car deserves to be on dsport and import tuner.
09-03-08, 10:11 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Park Ridge IL
Posts: 2,485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will belive it when I see it.
Btw for all you basher's audi had a 12v v6 2.8 motor it was horrible imposible to mod and reflash hitachi ecu pre bosch yet people managed to turbo them with a sts kit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8z5HHMepUE
Btw for all you basher's audi had a 12v v6 2.8 motor it was horrible imposible to mod and reflash hitachi ecu pre bosch yet people managed to turbo them with a sts kit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8z5HHMepUE
09-04-08, 02:49 AM
#42
Lead Lap
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SoCal-Brea, Ca
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I honestly dont see how he could do all this in what.....3 days?
6 months ago I was talking with SP about doing a turbo on my car and they said it would take at least a month.....and this guy did it in 3 days?
I dont understand how/why there have been no pictures or anything.....
Im not trying to discredit this guys claim, but it just doesnt sound right.....all this in 3 DAYS?
6 months ago I was talking with SP about doing a turbo on my car and they said it would take at least a month.....and this guy did it in 3 days?
I dont understand how/why there have been no pictures or anything.....
Im not trying to discredit this guys claim, but it just doesnt sound right.....all this in 3 DAYS?
09-04-08, 03:31 AM
#43
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Curious to see the turbo mani setup. Adapter flange and tubing on the existing header? Rear-mount set-up like STS does them? I've only played with inline or rotary turbo setups, nothing on a v6 or v8.
09-04-08, 05:53 AM
#44
I honestly dont see how he could do all this in what.....3 days?
6 months ago I was talking with SP about doing a turbo on my car and they said it would take at least a month.....and this guy did it in 3 days?
I dont understand how/why there have been no pictures or anything.....
Im not trying to discredit this guys claim, but it just doesnt sound right.....all this in 3 DAYS?
6 months ago I was talking with SP about doing a turbo on my car and they said it would take at least a month.....and this guy did it in 3 days?
I dont understand how/why there have been no pictures or anything.....
Im not trying to discredit this guys claim, but it just doesnt sound right.....all this in 3 DAYS?
The thing is, not only is it unlikely a shop could physically install all this in 3 days (they'd need to measure and design a considerable amount of not only custom plumbing but also custom mounting hardware they'd need to also fabricate it and install it... all in 3 days?
The other problem is, TOM's doesn't sell ECUs, so it's be tough for them to have "installed a TOMs ECU"
You send them -your- ECU. And only if it's a japanese one. You ship your JDM ECU to TOM's, which is in japan. Then -they- reflash it for you. With a tool they have that only works on JDM ECUs. Then they send it back it you. From Japan. That takes a lot more than 3 days, and you have to start with owning a JDM ECU.
All that assumes this shop can magically make a japanese ECU work in a US car, which nobody else on earth can, and that they did all that in 3 days too.
Or to put it another way, even the guys who have installed the actual TOMs supercharger setup, on a JDM vehicle, a complete finished production kit that includes everything, and is a lot less complex a setup than a turbo system, have taken more than 3 days to do it.
I'm not saying it's impossible to physically attach a turbo to a 250. It's certianly entirely possible to physically attach the turbo.
I'm saying the story as we've been told it doesn't follow.
09-04-08, 06:05 AM
#45
Pole Position
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: GA
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed, something doesn't seem quite right. I've done custom turbo setups a while back (2 on Nissan Maximas and 1 Integra) and I have a hard time believing that it can be done that quickly. It's hard to find room for everything, especially on a V6, even if you've done it before. I'm not sure how they can even fabricate everything needed in 3 days, from the manifolds to the intercooler piping, downpipe, all that stuff.
Then comes the electronics part. Just from my experience, tuning a car that wasn't turbo from the factory is harder than actually putting the turbo on. You basically have to fool the ECU's and sensors. On my Maxima, that took much, much longer than 3 days. And I was sharing information and getting tips from others who had turbocharged their cars. Also, this was on a '97 model, much less complicated than a new IS. We fried so many sensors and hacked up a lot of wiring harnesses getting everything right. 3 days just doesn't seem possible.
Then comes the electronics part. Just from my experience, tuning a car that wasn't turbo from the factory is harder than actually putting the turbo on. You basically have to fool the ECU's and sensors. On my Maxima, that took much, much longer than 3 days. And I was sharing information and getting tips from others who had turbocharged their cars. Also, this was on a '97 model, much less complicated than a new IS. We fried so many sensors and hacked up a lot of wiring harnesses getting everything right. 3 days just doesn't seem possible.
I honestly dont see how he could do all this in what.....3 days?
6 months ago I was talking with SP about doing a turbo on my car and they said it would take at least a month.....and this guy did it in 3 days?
I dont understand how/why there have been no pictures or anything.....
Im not trying to discredit this guys claim, but it just doesnt sound right.....all this in 3 DAYS?
6 months ago I was talking with SP about doing a turbo on my car and they said it would take at least a month.....and this guy did it in 3 days?
I dont understand how/why there have been no pictures or anything.....
Im not trying to discredit this guys claim, but it just doesnt sound right.....all this in 3 DAYS?