Rock-a-Lex

iTrader: (4)

Are there any members that did this? I always here about the centifugal type like RMM, LMS and SRT (all now discontunued) but what about a roots style? Doesn't this type of SC yield even more power AND more instantaneous? If I had the money I would be the FIRST to do this as I feel that it would be more cost effective than turboing the GS4XX. If hood clearance became an issue I would have a hood custom made.

What are your thoughts on this?

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

The cost of doing this will far exceed $10k in parts & labor. I would just grab an E55 Amg which can now be had for under $20k, keep the GS and call it a day.. This is just my opinion

Rock-a-Lex

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, you're right and that option makes MUCH more sense. But sometimes I (and probably others on this board) get caught up in the notion in having something that not many have (such as a specifically and heavily modded GS).

Of course, if you're looking for performance then this isn't a good foundation to start with...much better than others but there are others that are MUCH betterl; such as the E55/E63 AMG.

vwynn

iTrader: (4)

go all motor to be different! =D ITB your 1uz

speedaddic

iTrader: (10)

I remember somebody on Lextreme having a roots on a 1uz...I'll look it up right now

Alexus_300

iTrader: (4)

I hate to say it but the reason roots type SC are not use alot is due to its inefficiency. Roots type charger also happens to heat soak very easily so some sort of heat exchanger will be needed to chill the air. This all leads to lots of money to fabricate and custom make parts. But you're more than welcome to lead the way. But I'll tell you now that it's surely not gonna cost $10K unless you fabricate and do all the R&D yourself. It'll be more like $20K+ when all is said and done.

3UZFTE

Go visit Lextreme.com or v-eight.com, their a lot more technical and they can help you out, as opposed to saying it can't be done. It has been done many of times, just not on a GS4. And roots style blowers are beast, which is why 03-04 Cobras come with them as well as the new ZR1 and CTS-V, even Benz uses Eaton roots blower.... I think people need to do some research before they just start shouting numbers off, as they have not done it themselves. You can buy the components for far less than $10,000, including charger, intake manifold, plus accessories, for example a Eaton M112 runs for about $500 w/ 20k miles from a Cobra, a Richwood intake mani for about $1,500, and whatever you choose to run for boost will dictate whatever fuel system you run/need. I mean common guys... how could something cost $10k if everything were fab'd by me? I think if I remmeber right, TOM's has/had a supercharger kit for the 3UZ VVT-i, same as 1UZ VVT-i, for like $12k, everything included... Your telling me I can fab it up for no cheaper than that? $20,000.... Sorry but it's not 2000 anymore, people have done it, it can be done.

One thing I will add is that I do think there is an issue with the hood clearance, as our engine compartment isn't as large as an LS, as well as out hood slopes more, the charger sits up higher due to the SC intake mani.

Edit: I just read a 0-60 magazine which has a 06 GS430 with a Blitz M112 supercharger on it, they dont give many details, however I'm sure they didn't use a heat exchanger. However https://www.clublexus.com/forums/clu...time-deal.html does have provisions for a heat exchanger, but I am not sure I would run the extra radiator for the exchanger, as I don't think I see a pump for the coolant, unless they are attached the left side of the radiator... Either way, I think meth injection would be a viable substitute. As well as the Tundra TRD charger doesn't use an exchanger. Check out this build, he took an IS300, dropped in a 1UZ, and put on a TRD charger. http://www.isfanatics.com/forums/sho...d.php?p=510836
Just trying to help.

sam430

iTrader: (10)

Wouldn't a custom engine mount be a better/cheaper alternative to a custom hood?

Alexus_300

iTrader: (4)

So what you're saying is that the roots type charger is just as efficient if not better than a centrifugal charger? Have you ever seen data to support IAT from a roots charger(M112) vs. a centrifugal charger such as a Rotrex C-38? The reason why the roots type charger is used is that it is a simplier, easier, cheaper charger unit to maintain. It however only is good for a few short sprints and then gets major heat soaked. Take for example the MB E55 AMG. The first two or three sprint(60-120 mph) is very very fast, but as you continue on beating on it, it will feel like you're loosing 20 hp everytime after that. Do you know why? Because of heat soak. True, that it was fast for the first few sprints, but after that its pure crap. Therefore the first thing companies such as Kleeman and Brabus do to these cars is to add some sort of heat exchanger. Same goes for those Mustangs and Corvette. They both suffer tremendous heat soak in the higher boost level(10+ PSI) so they rely on larger displacement and higher gearing to make up for the acceleration. As far as Blitz using an roots type blower on the 3GS, they did design it but have you notice how much power they made for that $12k price tag? If I remember correctly, no more than 100rwhp. Sorry if this was long, but I'm no engineer. I just have plenty friends that works for major race teams. That and my only real world experience why roots type blower is inefficient is that I continue to stomp on them both at the track and on the highway.

3UZFTE

What does this have to do with putting in on a GS4? I am sure there are more efficient charging systems out there, me personally, I would go with a roots or screw style blower just because of the noise, I hate this blower whine from a procharger or vortech. That being said... I wonder why absolutely no top fuel dragsters run centrifugal blowers...? I don't mean to get into a pissing match, I do know about forced induction, I am not just saying, I'm just saying.... Centrifugal chargers are nice because they are more efficient, however only over a smaller RPM range, and doesn't make boost at low rpm, unlike the roots/screw type. However, unlike the Centrifugal charger, the Roots type blowers don't make as high of "peak" horsepower, but makes up for it at low end torque. Again, I know they aren't the most efficient thing, however it's not like their inefficient, otherwise why would companies make them to begin with.... No forced induction is without it's down falls, turbos take exhaust to spool the turbo, and SCs drain power for the accessory belt.... Why must this be a pissing match, your not the only person in the world who is aware of the information that is out there to be had, I am just trying to give him some ideas that are out there. If you check over at lextreme, there are quite a few people running roots/screw blowers, I am sure heat soak is an issue, but it's a good issue to have...

I'm done.

3UZFTE

I am sure it's a viable option, however it's not like you have tons of room down there between the pan and steering rack, and all the other stuff that is very close in contact, however I am sure it would be a little easier solution than a custom hood. SOMEONE DO IT ALREADY!

JBrady

As much as I LOVE the idea... in fact I have been considering the new Eaton TVS as a GREAT street blower. It would take a fair amount of fab work.

The MB AMG 55 series vehicles actually use a very efficient screw compressor. That said screw compressors make more heat in cruise conditions than a bypassed roots. MB actually uses a disengage clutch for this and other reasons.

The efficiency of the new Eaton TVS is on par with centrifugal (including turbos) and screw compressors up to 12psi or so.

I have not given up the concept of twin low mount mid sized turbos with 300-400hp capacity each.

The older Eaton SCs like the M90, 112 and 122s are much better than the "old" roots blowers but WAY behind the new TVS. The new Corvette ZR1 uses the TVS 2300.

Rock-a-Lex

iTrader: (4)

Nice information J as always... So if your looking to go FI the Eaton TVS is the way to go right? IF I decide to keep my car until it "literally" disintegrates it will become my garaged project car for many years to come as soon as my wife and I get another daily driver; perhaps a truck for the future fam.

I know that even after I (or anyone) would dump more money into making our cars faster that there will STILL be many cars out there that would beat it good but there is something "cool" about making a non-fast looking vehicle FAST! and as long as it has a timeless design and is comfortable it is a winning combination.

I am however REALLY REALLY interested in the ITB theory/concept (individual throttle bodies). I want to learn a lot about this mod...the pros, cons, cost maint...and where you can buy.

sakataj

iTrader: (182)

u can make them....i made a set back inthe day using my spare 2005 gsxr throttle bodies.... tuning was a ***** though (as it is with all ITB cars)

Rock-a-Lex

iTrader: (4)

How the hell do you make them!? Aren't the ITB's smaller than the OEM single throttle body? I am guessing there are to be 8 smaller TB's but how do you then make all open and close at the same time? Then wouldn't you need a special cover for them? They can't be just exposed like that right? Forgive me but I have NO CLUE when it comes to throttle bodies. All I know is that the oem one has a cable that opens and closes the plenum and the aire intake pipe connects to it (so it's not exposed).

Please send me a link or give me some more info. on this mod.