How do you get 300 whp out of this car without spraying it?
09-30-10, 02:34 PM
#31
This is a very flawed analysis. I-4 is two parallel twins, so when one of the four is firing, the other one is on exhaust. Exhaust pulses are every 180 degrees of crank rotation. 4-2-1 focuses on pairing the 360 degree cylinders before blending the alternate phase cylinders and usually creates more mid-range.
A V-6 is two I-3 engines with piston firing 120 degrees apart and essentially 360 degrees of dead time. There are no 180 degree phases anywhere and because the two I-3 banks are normally 60 degrees apart (for primary balance) even the two banks aren't 180 degrees apart. But the entire engine fires at 120 degree intervals, so it can be fair smooth.
A V-8 is two I-4 engines at 90 degrees (for primary balance). Many V-8s respond well to 4-2-1 with those two banks dumping into a single common tube so it ends up being 8-4-2-1 with opposing pairs at each merge and the 180 degree scavenging working at each merge as well.
A V-6 is two I-3 engines with piston firing 120 degrees apart and essentially 360 degrees of dead time. There are no 180 degree phases anywhere and because the two I-3 banks are normally 60 degrees apart (for primary balance) even the two banks aren't 180 degrees apart. But the entire engine fires at 120 degree intervals, so it can be fair smooth.
A V-8 is two I-4 engines at 90 degrees (for primary balance). Many V-8s respond well to 4-2-1 with those two banks dumping into a single common tube so it ends up being 8-4-2-1 with opposing pairs at each merge and the 180 degree scavenging working at each merge as well.
09-30-10, 04:01 PM
#32
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
What I'm really saying is there is no inherent reason why this would not work for a V-6 compared to an I-4 or V-8.
09-30-10, 06:27 PM
#33
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Am I doing my math wrong?
stock+265
Intake+5
PPE+16
Cback+12
total=298
This is assuming best conditions, and PPE +16 HP.
(I know, brought this back from the dead, but if someone can independently prove PPe's results we have a 300whp cars on our hands.)
& if thats the case, PPE + n20 here I come=]
stock+265
Intake+5
PPE+16
Cback+12
total=298
This is assuming best conditions, and PPE +16 HP.
(I know, brought this back from the dead, but if someone can independently prove PPe's results we have a 300whp cars on our hands.)
& if thats the case, PPE + n20 here I come=]
For example: you'll get a 5 peak HP gain of an intake at say 6300 RPM, but the exhausts peak 12 HP gain is at only 6000rpm but at 6300 it drops off to only a 8 HP gain. . . So instead of it being a total of 17HP (5+12) it's really only 13HP (5+8) at 6300 rpm . .
09-30-10, 11:11 PM
#34
Can't say for sure without knowing a lot of details about the engine itself and the original manifolds. It wouldn't seem impossible, but there could be a number of details which would conspire to make it impossible. I don't know enough about the engine's internals to be able to say.
What I'm really saying is there is no inherent reason why this would not work for a V-6 compared to an I-4 or V-8.
What I'm really saying is there is no inherent reason why this would not work for a V-6 compared to an I-4 or V-8.
09-30-10, 11:15 PM
#35
I don't think you can add up the gains that way. Mainly because each component peak HP gain is at a different RPM.
For example: you'll get a 5 peak HP gain of an intake at say 6300 RPM, but the exhausts peak 12 HP gain is at only 6000rpm but at 6300 it drops off to only a 8 HP gain. . . So instead of it being a total of 17HP (5+12) it's really only 13HP (5+8) at 6300 rpm . .
For example: you'll get a 5 peak HP gain of an intake at say 6300 RPM, but the exhausts peak 12 HP gain is at only 6000rpm but at 6300 it drops off to only a 8 HP gain. . . So instead of it being a total of 17HP (5+12) it's really only 13HP (5+8) at 6300 rpm . .
10-20-10, 11:06 PM
#36
My dyno is on here somewhere. I'm not saying yours lost power, I don't know yet. Im waiting until the DA / weather changes to install and dyno. My previous dyno was 72 degrees @ 40% RH. I'm hoping I gain power (thats why I bought them) I will post up the unbais results. I know one thing is they sure do look good!! I can't wait to get them on.
10-20-10, 11:34 PM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
whaa??? umm... on a 2stroke I4 *if there is such a thing* but how can you have 2 different cylinders firing at the same time on a 4stroke engine, do you want me to explain what 4stroke means?
4A-GE firing order is 1-3-4-2
B18C = 1-3-4-2
dude...
4A-GE firing order is 1-3-4-2
B18C = 1-3-4-2
dude...
10-21-10, 06:37 AM
#39
I used the term "firing" in my frist post. This is not the case. I have confused many. Sry.
This is firing below
Four firing orders are possible, but three of these involve consecutive firing of three cylinders
in each bank and only the fourth enables cylinders to be fired alternatively from each bank
having a firing order as 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6. This arrangement also offers the best selection from the
torsional vibration consideration. With this arrangement, pairs of pistons in different cylinder
banks are at the top of their strokes.
Consider pistons 1 and 5 are at TDC after compression and exhaust strokes respectively so
that piston 1 is about to start its power stroke and piston 5 in its induction stroke. A120 degrees
rotation of the crankshaft brings pistons 3 and 4 to the top of exhaust and compression strokes
respectively. At this point, the order of firing is 1, 4. A second rotation of 120 degrees positions
pistons 2 and 6 at TDC on compression and exhaust
strokes respectively
This pluses 1 cylinder in each bank at any given time in 120.
Lobux- a full cycle is 720 degrees not 360.
This is firing below
Four firing orders are possible, but three of these involve consecutive firing of three cylinders
in each bank and only the fourth enables cylinders to be fired alternatively from each bank
having a firing order as 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6. This arrangement also offers the best selection from the
torsional vibration consideration. With this arrangement, pairs of pistons in different cylinder
banks are at the top of their strokes.
Consider pistons 1 and 5 are at TDC after compression and exhaust strokes respectively so
that piston 1 is about to start its power stroke and piston 5 in its induction stroke. A120 degrees
rotation of the crankshaft brings pistons 3 and 4 to the top of exhaust and compression strokes
respectively. At this point, the order of firing is 1, 4. A second rotation of 120 degrees positions
pistons 2 and 6 at TDC on compression and exhaust
strokes respectively
This pluses 1 cylinder in each bank at any given time in 120.
Lobux- a full cycle is 720 degrees not 360.
Last edited by HKS350; 10-21-10 at 06:47 AM.
10-21-10, 03:53 PM
#40
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
I used the term "firing" in my frist post. This is not the case. I have confused many. Sry.
This is firing below
Four firing orders are possible, but three of these involve consecutive firing of three cylinders
in each bank and only the fourth enables cylinders to be fired alternatively from each bank
having a firing order as 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6. This arrangement also offers the best selection from the
torsional vibration consideration. With this arrangement, pairs of pistons in different cylinder
banks are at the top of their strokes.
Consider pistons 1 and 5 are at TDC after compression and exhaust strokes respectively so
that piston 1 is about to start its power stroke and piston 5 in its induction stroke. A120 degrees
rotation of the crankshaft brings pistons 3 and 4 to the top of exhaust and compression strokes
respectively. At this point, the order of firing is 1, 4. A second rotation of 120 degrees positions
pistons 2 and 6 at TDC on compression and exhaust
strokes respectively
This pluses 1 cylinder in each bank at any given time in 120.
Lobux- a full cycle is 720 degrees not 360.
This is firing below
Four firing orders are possible, but three of these involve consecutive firing of three cylinders
in each bank and only the fourth enables cylinders to be fired alternatively from each bank
having a firing order as 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6. This arrangement also offers the best selection from the
torsional vibration consideration. With this arrangement, pairs of pistons in different cylinder
banks are at the top of their strokes.
Consider pistons 1 and 5 are at TDC after compression and exhaust strokes respectively so
that piston 1 is about to start its power stroke and piston 5 in its induction stroke. A120 degrees
rotation of the crankshaft brings pistons 3 and 4 to the top of exhaust and compression strokes
respectively. At this point, the order of firing is 1, 4. A second rotation of 120 degrees positions
pistons 2 and 6 at TDC on compression and exhaust
strokes respectively
This pluses 1 cylinder in each bank at any given time in 120.
Lobux- a full cycle is 720 degrees not 360.
How do you get cylinders 1 & 5 at TDC with a 120 degree crank? 1 & 6, sure, but 1 & 5? That would require a flat crank and 180 degree rod journal spacing. That's a cheap crank for sure.
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