New Supercharger for the 2GR-FSE engine from Toyota
02-08-10, 10:53 AM
#19
Lexus Champion
How big of a car is that Mark X? It looks like it would make a nice replacement for the ES350.
Having a supercharged IS would be nice, but for what it would cost and the minimal gains you would get out of it, I don't think it would be worth it.
Having a supercharged IS would be nice, but for what it would cost and the minimal gains you would get out of it, I don't think it would be worth it.
02-08-10, 01:25 PM
#21
The TOMs kit runs $10,000.
Poor gains for high cost.
For $4000 a 250 owner could get 102 more hp with a 350 (in 350 markets anyway) and for $10,000 a 350 owner could gain 108 hp with an IS-F (and get a better transmission too).
(even if you went with the $6000 cost of the LMS kit, which ran 0.8 lbs less boost, it's still a terrible bang/buck).
02-08-10, 03:21 PM
#22
^ that is true kurtz
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its great you have boost dood
but jus cus you do doesent mean its worth it lol .. and i can think of THOUSANDS of ppl who think it isnt worth it , if it was really worth it do you think lms would of only sold like 3-5 ? yeah.....
i have a chance to get the same kit as you right now for 4000$ and im not gonna get it
maybe it if was new but not used
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its great you have boost dood
but jus cus you do doesent mean its worth it lol .. and i can think of THOUSANDS of ppl who think it isnt worth it , if it was really worth it do you think lms would of only sold like 3-5 ? yeah.....
i have a chance to get the same kit as you right now for 4000$ and im not gonna get it
maybe it if was new but not used
Last edited by L-S-D; 02-08-10 at 03:26 PM.
02-08-10, 05:54 PM
#24
Were not talking what you paid for it ,
In general the msrp of 6000$ before instal is NOT worth the kit ..
Forsure ur whip is fun to drive no doubt .. But not everyone is gonna get the kit
For what you paid right ? So point is. The lms kit is not worth the cost
For the amount of boost you get
In general the msrp of 6000$ before instal is NOT worth the kit ..
Forsure ur whip is fun to drive no doubt .. But not everyone is gonna get the kit
For what you paid right ? So point is. The lms kit is not worth the cost
For the amount of boost you get
02-08-10, 07:46 PM
#25
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Boost isnt for everyone, some people want it really bad, others dont.
Tuning (b it rims and kits, or boost) is a passion, and in most cases logic and common sense kinda goes out the window,the money spent is usually never recouped.
Kurtz L-S-D:
u both have intakes and exhausts (money not well spent in the larger scheme of things)
u basically spent around $1500 for around 4-5 hp gains (1.6% gains)
so using that logic if u were to spent $10,000 u should get 33.34hp.
In fact u get 50-55 hp. (best bang for ur buck mod, if u can afford it)
yes my logoic is flawed but so it urs bout upgrading.
anyways i think its stupid trying to bring in logic into something that isn't logical(tuning) to begin with. Tuning is addictive and you always want more.
Big up to Isuxel !!!!!
Tuning (b it rims and kits, or boost) is a passion, and in most cases logic and common sense kinda goes out the window,the money spent is usually never recouped.
Kurtz L-S-D:
u both have intakes and exhausts (money not well spent in the larger scheme of things)
u basically spent around $1500 for around 4-5 hp gains (1.6% gains)
so using that logic if u were to spent $10,000 u should get 33.34hp.
In fact u get 50-55 hp. (best bang for ur buck mod, if u can afford it)
yes my logoic is flawed but so it urs bout upgrading.
anyways i think its stupid trying to bring in logic into something that isn't logical(tuning) to begin with. Tuning is addictive and you always want more.
Big up to Isuxel !!!!!
Last edited by ndk83; 02-08-10 at 08:03 PM.
02-08-10, 08:13 PM
#26
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Boost isnt for everyone, some people want it really bad, others dont.
Tuning (b it rims and kits, or boost) is a passion, and in most cases logic and common sense kinda goes out the window,the money spent is usually never recouped.
Kurtz L-S-D:
u both have intakes and exhausts (money not well spent in the larger scheme of things)
u basically spent around $1500 for around 4-5 hp gains (1.6% gains)
so using that logic if u were to spent $10,000 u should get 33.34hp.
In fact u get 50-55 hp. (best bang for ur buck mod, if u can afford it)
yes my logoic is flawed but so it urs bout upgrading.
anyways i think its stupid trying to bring in logic into something that isn't logical(tuning) to begin with. Tuning is addictive and you always want more.
Big up to Isuxel !!!!!
Tuning (b it rims and kits, or boost) is a passion, and in most cases logic and common sense kinda goes out the window,the money spent is usually never recouped.
Kurtz L-S-D:
u both have intakes and exhausts (money not well spent in the larger scheme of things)
u basically spent around $1500 for around 4-5 hp gains (1.6% gains)
so using that logic if u were to spent $10,000 u should get 33.34hp.
In fact u get 50-55 hp. (best bang for ur buck mod, if u can afford it)
yes my logoic is flawed but so it urs bout upgrading.
anyways i think its stupid trying to bring in logic into something that isn't logical(tuning) to begin with. Tuning is addictive and you always want more.
Big up to Isuxel !!!!!
However - spending $8k on a supercharger for the ISx50 doesn't make good economic sense because the same money will easily take you to a higher trim level with a LOT more power from the factory - including a warranty. So, you'd be far better off just upgrading to a better model first. Once you've got the IS-F, then all the cost perspective goes sideways because you'll need to explore alternate brands (C63 AMG?) or even more expensive models which bring far greater insurance, registration, maintenance, and operating costs. My F is actually cheaper to insure than my 350...
If somebody wants to do it for the surprise factor, or just to be different, great. But most people are going to look at how much to I spend, what do I give up (engine warranty...), and what do I really get. Few will call a supercharger "worth it" after looking at all the real costs. Because it will only be a few, the aftermarket isn't going to devote a lot of time and effort to it. That's why we're where we are today - very few real performance options.
02-08-10, 08:16 PM
#27
Boost isnt for everyone, some people want it really bad, others dont.
Tuning (b it rims and kits, or boost) is a passion, and in most cases logic and common sense kinda goes out the window,the money spent is usually never recouped.
Kurtz L-S-D:
u both have intakes and exhausts (money not well spent in the larger scheme of things)
u basically spent around $1500 for around 4-5 hp gains (1.6% gains)
so using that logic if u were to spent $10,000 u should get 33.34hp.
In fact u get 50-55 hp. (best bang for ur buck mod, if u can afford it)
yes my logoic is flawed but so it urs bout upgrading.
anyways i think its stupid trying to bring in logic into something that isn't logical(tuning) to begin with. Tuning is addictive and you always want more.
Big up to Isuxel !!!!!
Tuning (b it rims and kits, or boost) is a passion, and in most cases logic and common sense kinda goes out the window,the money spent is usually never recouped.
Kurtz L-S-D:
u both have intakes and exhausts (money not well spent in the larger scheme of things)
u basically spent around $1500 for around 4-5 hp gains (1.6% gains)
so using that logic if u were to spent $10,000 u should get 33.34hp.
In fact u get 50-55 hp. (best bang for ur buck mod, if u can afford it)
yes my logoic is flawed but so it urs bout upgrading.
anyways i think its stupid trying to bring in logic into something that isn't logical(tuning) to begin with. Tuning is addictive and you always want more.
Big up to Isuxel !!!!!
You know what happens when ya assume, right? Your math sucks. No way in hell would I have paid MSRP for either performance part on my car, the value for gain sucks there (as it does with all the forced induction options).
I paid $200 for my intake... 5 rwhp based on every dyno I've seen for JoeZ/F-sport type intakes. That's $40 per hp.
I paid $400 for my Tanabe... 7 rwhp based on the dynos for that... $57 per hp.
Based on those numbers for $10,000 I expect between 175-250 horsepower. I think these kits fall a world short of that (but as Lance points out, this stuff isn't exactly linear)
Versus $10,000 for 55 ENGINE hp (~40-45 rwhp) for the TOMs supercharger... that's about 200-225 bucks per horsepower... 4-5 TIMES what I paid per hp.
The LMS kit at $6000 for 40 rwhp is a little better, at $150 per hp... still about triple what I paid for my gains (and honestly I was a little sick at how much my minor gains cost- I'm used to a lot better bang/buck on mods, hence why I've done so few to this car).
Again, versus if I'd spent $10,000 more for an IS-F for 108 more hp... or a mere $92.59 per hp... still expensive, but way cheaper than a supercharger for a lot more power....plus a better transmission and I keep the warranty too.
02-08-10, 08:43 PM
#29
this obviously excludes the very few who are already running forced induction, and even then, those kits are relatively "one-off" (vs. mass-produced)...
but considering that the 2is has been out for four model years and yet we have yet to see any stateside options as far as forced induction is concerned, shouldn't that be an indication of whether forced induction is feasible and/or cost-effective?
but considering that the 2is has been out for four model years and yet we have yet to see any stateside options as far as forced induction is concerned, shouldn't that be an indication of whether forced induction is feasible and/or cost-effective?
02-08-10, 09:08 PM
#30
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Your premise is flawed. Cost of horsepower isn't linear and extrapolating from a relatively cheap item to something costing more doesn't often make any sense at all. Realistically we'd all be running small block Chevy V-8s if cheap, reliable power was the order of the day.
However - spending $8k on a supercharger for the ISx50 doesn't make good economic sense because the same money will easily take you to a higher trim level with a LOT more power from the factory - including a warranty. So, you'd be far better off just upgrading to a better model first. Once you've got the IS-F, then all the cost perspective goes sideways because you'll need to explore alternate brands (C63 AMG?) or even more expensive models which bring far greater insurance, registration, maintenance, and operating costs. My F is actually cheaper to insure than my 350...
If somebody wants to do it for the surprise factor, or just to be different, great. But most people are going to look at how much to I spend, what do I give up (engine warranty...), and what do I really get. Few will call a supercharger "worth it" after looking at all the real costs. Because it will only be a few, the aftermarket isn't going to devote a lot of time and effort to it. That's why we're where we are today - very few real performance options.
However - spending $8k on a supercharger for the ISx50 doesn't make good economic sense because the same money will easily take you to a higher trim level with a LOT more power from the factory - including a warranty. So, you'd be far better off just upgrading to a better model first. Once you've got the IS-F, then all the cost perspective goes sideways because you'll need to explore alternate brands (C63 AMG?) or even more expensive models which bring far greater insurance, registration, maintenance, and operating costs. My F is actually cheaper to insure than my 350...
If somebody wants to do it for the surprise factor, or just to be different, great. But most people are going to look at how much to I spend, what do I give up (engine warranty...), and what do I really get. Few will call a supercharger "worth it" after looking at all the real costs. Because it will only be a few, the aftermarket isn't going to devote a lot of time and effort to it. That's why we're where we are today - very few real performance options.
Spending any type of money on any mod doesnt make economic sense. There are a million better ways to spend ur money. Upgrading to a bigger faster car isnt one of them. Esp if ur a tuner, since ur running costs as u pointed out are higher (how btw is ur insurance on an F cheaper than an IS?) and prices of mods are relatively more expensive than the cheaper model.
people will tune any car you give them and at any price. how many F cars are supercharged? Ive read of atleast 2 or 3.
How many IS's are supercharged? i know of 5 (Isuxel, the guy with TOMS and butterflies, thata guy demik, another guy whose name i cant remember that was running the LMS, the chinese guy who build a custom roterex charger that i posted. And I know a handful that are interested out of the IS300 crowd. etc etc etc. There is satisfaction out of tuning that u cant get outta buying the next step up.
Sleeper cars ftw!!!!!!!!
You know what happens when ya assume, right? Your math sucks. No way in hell would I have paid MSRP for either performance part on my car, the value for gain sucks there (as it does with all the forced induction options).
I paid $200 for my intake... 5 rwhp based on every dyno I've seen for JoeZ/F-sport type intakes. That's $40 per hp.
I paid $400 for my Tanabe... 7 rwhp based on the dynos for that... $57 per hp.
Based on those numbers for $10,000 I expect between 175-250 horsepower. I think these kits fall a world short of that (but as Lance points out, this stuff isn't exactly linear)
Versus $10,000 for 55 ENGINE hp (~40-45 rwhp) for the TOMs supercharger... that's about 200-225 bucks per horsepower... 4-5 TIMES what I paid per hp.
The LMS kit at $6000 for 40 rwhp is a little better, at $150 per hp... still about triple what I paid for my gains (and honestly I was a little sick at how much my minor gains cost- I'm used to a lot better bang/buck on mods, hence why I've done so few to this car).
Again, versus if I'd spent $10,000 more for an IS-F for 108 more hp... or a mere $92.59 per hp... still expensive, but way cheaper than a supercharger for a lot more power....plus a better transmission and I keep the warranty too.
I paid $200 for my intake... 5 rwhp based on every dyno I've seen for JoeZ/F-sport type intakes. That's $40 per hp.
I paid $400 for my Tanabe... 7 rwhp based on the dynos for that... $57 per hp.
Based on those numbers for $10,000 I expect between 175-250 horsepower. I think these kits fall a world short of that (but as Lance points out, this stuff isn't exactly linear)
Versus $10,000 for 55 ENGINE hp (~40-45 rwhp) for the TOMs supercharger... that's about 200-225 bucks per horsepower... 4-5 TIMES what I paid per hp.
The LMS kit at $6000 for 40 rwhp is a little better, at $150 per hp... still about triple what I paid for my gains (and honestly I was a little sick at how much my minor gains cost- I'm used to a lot better bang/buck on mods, hence why I've done so few to this car).
Again, versus if I'd spent $10,000 more for an IS-F for 108 more hp... or a mere $92.59 per hp... still expensive, but way cheaper than a supercharger for a lot more power....plus a better transmission and I keep the warranty too.
We are all VERY disappointed with the gains that our cars got from performance parts. I bought my under the impression than the 1st gen would be a beast so therefore the 2nd gen would be aswell and although no parts were out at the time, that they would eventually. Never happened.
I cant convince u that spending 10k on a supercharger is worth it, nor do i want to. everyone can make up ur own financial decisions based on their situation.
But since there is nothing else, short of upgrading ur car, to make that much and more power then yea a supercharger is worth it under the tuner mentatlity. Again it depends on the users financial situation.
At the end of the day its all about ur personal satisfaction and ofcourse braging rights. One guy can say "i got an F", the other a "boosted350". Is it gonna change ur life because its 1 sec faster and a little bit cheaper? Not really. Personally however, id feel alot more satisfaction in something that I built not something i bought.
Both cars will command respect; the stock F from posers and the Boosted IS from enthusiasts.
So for the guys that are pushing our car limits
